Great thread recently on "show your weathered....." why aren't HO scale freight cars and engines sold already with weathering and grafitti.....and "undecorated" or "unweathered" sold as a rare "option". I have rarely seen a prototype shiny and new like most models are sold. I don't have the time or skills to weather my rolling stock or engines so "pre-weathered" freight cars and engines (like the box cars recently released by Athearn) would be GREAT!! I realize weathering/grafitti can vary greatly.....but....any comments?
All prototype freight cars start out as new. How they weather depends greatly upon location, what service they are in and construction of the car itself. Modelers also model different time periods. For my 60's era models, there tended to be less graffiti (and none of the current type) and many of the cars were fairly new as the railroads were investing in larger and more specialized cars. So its plausible to have a 40' box that is well weathered next to a 50' box that is only a few years old next to covered hopper that just rolled off the assembly line. Starting from a "clean" slate allows me to chose how much weathering I want to do.
Don't be affraid to try weathering. Practice on one car, if you don't want to do one you have already, pick up a cheap one at a show or a hobby shop.
I only started weathering two years ago and I feel pretty comfortable now. The real anxiety sets in is when you take the weathering airbrush to the 200 dollar, sound equipped loco your lovely wife bought for you for Christmas!
Ricky
A number of new lines of cars have weathering already applied. It is an extra step in production and increases the cost, so it will probably only be done with some of the newer releases. For the reasons mentioned, it limits sales to some buyers due to taste, era, locale, etc. I believe steam era equipment may be sootier on top. Grafitti is a current-era phenomenon, visible on freight trains everywhere. Hobo marks are pre-WWII. Etc.
do you guys really like those pre-weathered cars though? i personally think they look kinda lame... jmo though
jeremy
Just watch the trend. It'll get to the point that if'n you want to weather the dang things yourself you'll have to undo the weathering they got on those RTR's then DIY. MMM----
All because we donwanna------
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No, I don't like factory weathering and don't want to see it become mainstream.
Personally, I think weathering is way over done by some. As mentioned by at least one other poster, it depends a lot on your era, local, type of railroad, etc. I have color pictures from the fifties showing lots of stuff very clean and well maintained.
Here is what I mean by over done. Go out and look at a real boxcar from 300 feet. Now look at an HO model from 40" way - the "effect" should be similar, because the distance is the same.
I find subtle weathering much more effective in small scales. Too many people seem to want to build and weather HO models as if they will be observed from 8 scale feet, when in fact about the closest we usually observe them is about 80'.
I model the early 50's, a time when most roads where investing a great deal in new equipment or repairing/upgrading equipment that had been neglected during the war years. I weather most stuff, just a little. A few pieces get a lot, some are left looking very new. Locos and passenger cars all get only the slightest signs of dirt or rust.
If I was modeling a different era, it might be different. Same goes for structures, subtle is the order of the day unless a particular structure is intended to look neglected.
Sheldon
Two other comments:
There is a difference between normal dirty and neglect and deterioration. Sometimes both are approperate, sometimes not. Trains get dirty, that's for sure, but I have seem many dirty, but well maintained pieces of rail equipment in my life. Again, this needs to be era approperate and in scale to the viewer in my opinion.
When paint jobs are new, they are high gloss, that wears off quickly but not completely for years. I clear coat locos and passenger cars with semi gloss or satin clear coat to get the right look of well cared for but not new.
I will admit that though I can 'weather' my steam power at least to the point where I'M satisfied, I have a lot of trouble weathering rolling stock. So far my attempts have managed to look as if the cars were buried in a Sahara sand dune for about two centuries, LOL! Doesn't mean I won't keep trying, though.
As far as my locos go, I like to think that my MR is a fairly 'good houskeeper' and I try to keep the weathering as one would see the loco in normal--but not neglected--service. I do have some consignment locos that I've bought that have been 'overweathered' at least to my point of view, and tend to look like rolling junkyards--locomotives that have been weathered to represent steam being run out on its last mileage. As I can, I plan on curing that.
For me, a lightly weathered steamer looks like something the railroad still takes pride in. A heavily 'junk' weathered loco (and yes, I've got a couple that I've bought on consignment) looks like the railroad has just given up on them.
As to the rolling stock--well, I just have to work on that. But I'm modeling the 'forties and early 'fifties, and 'taggers' weren't as prevalent. And enough new cars were mixed in--enough to let you know that the railroads were still a BIG Business.
Tom
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Sheldon:
Like the points. Buildings even do not show weathering quite the same across the scene either. When doing weathering of buildings the idea of using historically pertenent photos for the era/locale of those buildings would give people an idea of just how weathered each building actually was/were.
I'm modeling an era/locale(northern plains/prairies--1970's/80's) that was in the throes of abandonment and as such some of the lines were not in the best of shape. However; they were not as bad as some of the Penn Central was during that same period. I have a couple of ghost towns/near ghost towns on an abandoned branch/spur--a total of 6 buildings needed to be converted into remnants of such. But then only 2 were rendered totally--the rest vine filled or engulfed in plantlife-----not all buildings were well looked after but hardly any of them were rendered beaten into the ground either.
I would think a majority of the rolling stock would not, nor should they really look so beaten into the ground that they would be sitting in a bad order line-------
At least---I hope not-----
Barry said: would think a majority of the rolling stock would not, nor should they really look so beaten into the ground that they would be sitting in a bad order line-------
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To add to this I will add that shippers reserves the right to reject a freight car for loading if its deem unsafe..The same applies to truck trailers.
As far as pre weathered cars I fully believe we will see more in the coming months.
Larry
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brank why aren't HO scale freight cars and engines sold already with weathering and grafitti
Because weathering effects vary widely from location to location, and it makes more sense to sell a "new" car that can be weathered to match the geographical area you model than to make a generically weathered car.
Also, because by adding your own weathering, you determine how "old" the car is.
Nevertheless, there will likely be more coming, to satisfy the "Dream-Plan-Buy" crowd that just wants to slap stuff on the layout and doesn't car about realism.
I don't doubt that we will see more and more pre weathered cars for reasons that have been previously discussed about RTR equipment. And to each their own. I however would prefer to see non weathered cars and locos remain the mainstay. They can be weathered in accordance with the era modeled and it is a whole lot easier to weather than to un weather and then re weather for era's and areas. Plus so far what I have seen I agree is not the greatest weathering job though I'm sure that will probably improve.
I also agree that a building built in 1920 will not look in 1940 like it does now. Many times, but not by any means all the time, the items weathered reflect current conditions and not the condition of the building or piece of rail equipment in the era modeled. In other words over weathered. That being said, my hat still goes off to those who weather well. For some reason our minds expect a building in 1940 to look old and run down even if the structure is not that old. It represents to us an age gone.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
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The only "factory" weathering that I have seen that I like is the Blackstone stuff. I think the Athearn stuff looked awful.
I don't believe in factory weathering.
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twhite As to the rolling stock--well, I just have to work on that. But I'm modeling the 'forties and early 'fifties, and 'taggers' weren't as prevalent. And enough new cars were mixed in--enough to let you know that the railroads were still a BIG Business.
Tom, try this simple technique. Only extremely low skill sets are required.... Get some water-soluable water colors similar to the colors of the cars. For example, burnt sienna and burnt umber are good for boxcar-red cars. Make a thin wash using 70-percent isopropyl alchol (water creates beading -- not good). Brush the wash all over the car. It dulls the car finish and tones down the car lettering. It creates a subtle but noticeable weathering effect and is idiot proof unless one makes the stain too strong. Paint wheels (except their treads) with paint (oily black on outside of wheels adjacent to friction bearings and weathered black to rust for axles and interior wheel sides. Now in less than 10 minutes or less you can do a car. More detailed/sophisticated weathering can always be done if the urge ever hits. I often use "sticky" chalks like Bragdon Enterprises to move to the next level of weathering. That process is fairly simple too. I have avoided spray painting. That requires skill and a good airbrush with its related paraphenalia.
The most common beginner error is to create large brush strokes using paint to simulate rust. They look just like what they are, sloppy brush strokes by a 520-foot giant.
A couple of thoughts:
Manufacturing pre-weathered cars will almost certainly result in cookie-cut 'designer dirt' and only one basic edition of vandalism. I guess that's OK, if your new purchases go directly from the box to the rails. Of course, there are a lot of model railroads that don't have spiral easements...
Since I buy rolling stock to kitbash, I much prefer basic black with minimal decal lettering. If I was buying it to operate RTR, graffiti would be a deal breaker.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where most freight cars were black)
tomikawaTTIf I was buying it to operate RTR, graffiti would be a deal breaker.
Same here!
For instance, if you modeled the Buffalo & Pittsburgh sometime between December 2008 and July 2009, you'd have to hit up most of your SD45s with glosscote and call it a day. They almost all look like this right now:
And the ones that do show any sort of weather on them are just dirty dorsal side and everything below the running boards is brownish. But the hulls look like someone just waxed them.
NittanyLion For instance, if you modeled the Buffalo & Pittsburgh sometime between December 2008 and July 2009, you'd have to hit up most of your SD45s with glosscote and call it a day. They almost all look like this right now: And the ones that do show any sort of weather on them are just dirty dorsal side and everything below the running boards is brownish. But the hulls look like someone just waxed them.
Excelent example!
In addition to my freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL, I model the Western Maryland, and interchanges with the C&O and B&O. The Western Maryland was well known for their EXTREMELY clean locomotives, passenger cars and cabooses - even in an era when most other railroads were also well kept.
In the late 40's and early 50's a little road grime on the trucks is all you would have seen on a WM diesel. And while steam locos may have been faded or had oil or water stains, dirt and rust would have been hard to find.
Many photos and first hand accounts from crews document this to be fact.
The N&W was another known for keeping motive power in excelent condition. Their famous indoor steam loco service facilities allowed for steam cleaning at every fuel/lube stop.
By contrast, one of the least "clean" railroads of that time was the PRR. Again, photos and crew accounts show lots of "dirt" but maintenence was good.
The dismal state that railroad equipment is allowed to be in today is one of the things that kills my interest in modern railroading.
Some cars are sold pre-weathered. I tihnk msot aren't becaus ethat would drive the price through the roof because of the time it takes to weather cars. And if the weathering was factory painted, I don't think that would look too good.
Also, I like to weather my own cars, as do others. It's one of the few things in this hobby that pretty mcuh everyu which way you slice it, you still need to work at it to improve it, as it isn't RTR. And like I said, some manufacturers are starting to sell cars pre-weathered.
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
markpierce Make a thin wash using 70-percent isopropyl alchol (water creates beading
Question answered without me asking. Thanks Mark! Some "how to" books say distilled water and I was about to ask why do some use alcohol.
Aaaand
markpierceThe most common beginner error is to create large brush strokes using paint to simulate rust. They look just like what they are, sloppy brush strokes by a 520-foot giant.
I'm glad to know it's common. Now I don't feel alone. Although I might say my attempt looked like a slightly larger giant. Lesson learned.
The worst case of factory-weathered models I have seen was a set of three ore-cars from Märklin. They looked really good in their ads, subtle differences between them both in base color and weathering. A frien of mine bought them and when I saw them in person I almost laughed myself to death!! They were all made from some disgusting orange plastic (almost translucent) and unpainted, then someone at the factory had run past them with a dark brown spraycan!?! and made some "weathering" . Needless to say, but my friend asked me to repaint them ASAP!
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ATLANTIC CENTRAL By contrast, one of the least "clean" railroads of that time was the PRR. Again, photos and crew accounts show lots of "dirt" but maintenence was good.
They couldn't keep their locomotives clean because they were to bussy being the railroad standard of the world.
I agree with elogger -- I don't want any pre-weathered rolling stock. None of mine are weathered, and they never will be. I know many modellers love weathering and are proud of their efforts toward "realism", but to me they have ruined a perfectly good car. To each his own though.
I can't imagine anything less realistic than a string of boxcars all weathered identically.
I suppose eventually it will be like road numbers, everyone trying to find a boxcar that is weathered differently than the ones they already have, manufacturers will offer 12 car sets all weathered differently (but the same as the other 12 car sets).
What an inventory nightmare for the manufacturers if they have to have sets weathered for the southwest, northeast, just built, ready for junking, etc. and still have unweathered for those who like to do their own or don't like weathering.
I don't expect to see it offered in S scale to any significant extent since the toy train enthusiasts are the great majority and thus buy most of the production runs.
Enjoy
Paul
elogger do you guys really like those pre-weathered cars though? i personally think they look kinda lame... jmo though jeremy
The scary thing is that there must be some kind of a market for the dang things. That is one reason why this happens--we end up with these odd generic whatzits that only point at weathering than actually BEING weathering.
Kind of makes one wonder--is there a market for weatherers and the products they make? Some kind of marketing campaigns such as those custom layout guys do-----
These guys do weathering:
http://thoroughbredrrmodels.com
I saw their work at the Cheshire HS train show in CT and it was excellent, as you can see by the photos on their site. They told me business is good. They also said, contact them BEFORE you ship a train to them.
IRONROOSTERI can't imagine anything less realistic than a string of boxcars all weathered identically.
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