The MR forums are HO forums with a few other scales thrown in occasionally. I don't know why it has turned out that way but it just is. The FVM GEVOs have been the topic of the year in the N-scale community and it barely registered a blip on the radar (one thread?) a few weeks ago on the MR forums. Mind you I think the MR forums are a great community and I enjoy participating in all of the topics, regardless of scale. But when it comes to N-scale, I go elsewhere. No biggie. Jamie
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wm3798Yes, Matt is at the NTS. He was also at the big show in Portland 2 weeks ago. As I said, he's been all over the interwebs for a couple of months. Apparently no one at MR bothers to look at this recent development in the world of publicity. If they're sitting on their haunches waiting for information to be gift wrapped and handed to them, then shame on them. They aren't doing their job.
Yes, Matt is at the NTS. He was also at the big show in Portland 2 weeks ago. As I said, he's been all over the interwebs for a couple of months. Apparently no one at MR bothers to look at this recent development in the world of publicity. If they're sitting on their haunches waiting for information to be gift wrapped and handed to them, then shame on them. They aren't doing their job.
I'm sorry, I don't see what job MR is failing to do. I would expect to see the GEVO announcement in the post-NTS report. The pre-NTS report - maybe, maybe not. MR has the new product announcements column because 1) readers read it. 2) it helps grow the hobby, which may help grow the magazine. 3) New advertisers may result from the free announcement they got in MR.
If you look in some of the older issues of MR, they laid out the rules for new product announcements. One was that the manufacturer had to get the information in MR's hands before the publishing deadlines. Like most model railroading businesses, Model Railroader is put out by a limited staff. In this age where magazines are dying like flies, costs have to be watch carefully. I think it's a little presumptuous on our part to expect MR to chase down a non-advertiser to get his new product announcement. If MR has a decent business case for doing so, they likely would.
I'll be interested to see where they go with this. It comes at a critical time for me, since my MR subscription has sunsetted, and I have to decide whether or not I will renew. I really enjoy the online content that's available to subscribers, and the general interest aspect of the magazine. It has improved immensely under Neil's leadership. But stuff like this just sticks out like a sore thumb. Lee
Lee
No argument from me about the loss of N focus when key staff members left. And remember, Neil was at Classic Toy Trains before he came to MR, which has/had significantly different expectations from the readership. I, too, think MR has been improving recently, which has led to my subscription renewal. This despite that there is precious little about small layouts or pre-WW1 railroading. And only a very few of the manufacturers I buy from advertise in MR. I have to go to RMC or NG&SLG or search the web to see their advertisements and find their new product announcements.
Fred W
Apply the same standard to the HO list published in the MR report, and you'll quickly find that your argument is full of holes, and potentially some other material unsuitable for discussion on a family forum...
At the very least, the Atlas C-630 is a re-run with new paint schemes, and If I was more familiar with current HO offerings, I bet most of the other locomotive announcements are the same. I think the MTH Challenger is the only thing that stands out as new... but only to that manufacturer. There's challengers on the market from a variety of builders.
There's a couple of specialty resin freight cars, interesting, but not earth shaking, and a PCC trolley from Bowser. Big surprises there.
None of this seems to me to be the launch that is the Fox Valley GEVO, I just wish MR would be a little less cavalier with N scale...
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wm3798 He was also at the big show in Portland 2 weeks ago. As I said, he's been all over the interwebs for a couple of months
Well there is your answer. It is not a new product being announced at the NTS. If on the other hand the Kalmbach show report was for products that have been announced over the last couple of months that are being shown at the NTS as well as other shows this year, then there might be an argument that is was overlooked.
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Allegheny2-6-6-6 I don't think you would be giving them any more of your money when they give the other guy FREE advertising. Lets face facts thats what they would be doing. As also mentioned if their product is so good then why don't they advertise in MR then they would have a reason to female dog.
Now look, this is Bovine Plumage. If ACME corporation feels so threatened by the fact that some pipsqueak company got a press release published in a column in the MR on "new product ANNOUNCEMENTS" I'd be starting to wonder whether the company is doing as well as they claim---and if they were publicly held--I'd be on the shorting side in a flash!!
Besides, MR has this column in there for that reason. Is/are there rules saying ONLY current advertizers are allowed to use that column? I've seen some companies use that column---and no advertizer got upset by it. Sheeesh
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
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It seem sto me that if you search the world of model railroading throughly you will find a good number of products that never make it to the pages of MR. How often do you see stuff on Brass Engines and the like not very often. MR is as stated first a business to generate revenue, of course it is going to cater to it's main advertisers thats just good business and thats how you stay in business. How would you feel if your company ABC Trains lets say shells out a fist full of dollars each month to advertise in MR and Joe Schmoe nobody gets a review telling everyone his latest product is the best thing since sliced bread. I don't think you would be giving them any more of your money when they give the other guy FREE advertising. Lets face facts thats what they would be doing. As also mentioned if their product is so good then why don't they advertise in MR then they would have a reason to female dog.
The fact is you can't please all of the people all of the time no matter how much you try.
Excuse this squeek from a little one.
Did not publishers have, at one time, sales reps who would go beating the bushes to drum up advertizers so that you would have more business? If advertizing dollars are important to your business---increasing revenue--wouldn't there have been people to do this?
Now we rely on those businesses to do the running to the magazines---"Oh please sir. Will you put this press release in your fine publication?"
If a guy setting up his business discovers that MRR has this 'issue' with N scale---in that no one seems to pay much attention TO N scale related businesses, or even to try and look for them as well--he's going to start wondering, I guess.
It could be a two way street you know-------
As for MR's N scale readership, your talking about chicken and egg. Is there fewer N scale items because the audience is small, or is the audience small because they neglect to cover the N scale market? Who's job is it to determine what gets covered? I suspect this has as much to do with the magazine's "youth movement" as it does with the loss of editors with a real interest in N scale like Gordon Odegard and Jim Kelly.
Many of the HO items they covered and completely unremarkable. A new paint scheme here, a new laser cut structure kit there. Hardly news. The GEVO is a groundbreaking design for any scale, the manufacturer has apparently knocked Kato out of the box (rumor has it that they were planning their own announcement of a GEVO model but got beat to the punch by the upstart). Plus, it's been all over the web. Matt made his formal announcement just before Hartford, and I'm sure he's no slacker when it comes to how the publicity machine should work.
I'll be interested to see where they go with this. It comes at a critical time for me, since my MR subscription has sunsetted, and I have to decide whether or not I will renew. I really enjoy the online content that's available to subscribers, and the general interest aspect of the magazine. It has improved immensely under Neil's leadership. But stuff like this just sticks out like a sore thumb.
wm3798 I see in the preliminary NTS report, that MR has plenty of time to list page after page of HO new releases, but completely overlooks the announcement by Fox Valley about their new GEVO diesel. I'm not a modern prototype modeler by any stretch, but his locomotive is as innovative as it is impressive. It has a true "plug n' play" decoder design, ultra-fine details, and an all new mechanism. It has been the talk of the town on N-scale specific forums for the last two months, and even got a thread started here.The fact that it's being done (and apparently done so well) by a small upstart company should be newsworthy in and of itself, yet somehow the MR staff remains unmoved.Lee
I see in the preliminary NTS report, that MR has plenty of time to list page after page of HO new releases, but completely overlooks the announcement by Fox Valley about their new GEVO diesel. I'm not a modern prototype modeler by any stretch, but his locomotive is as innovative as it is impressive. It has a true "plug n' play" decoder design, ultra-fine details, and an all new mechanism. It has been the talk of the town on N-scale specific forums for the last two months, and even got a thread started here.
The fact that it's being done (and apparently done so well) by a small upstart company should be newsworthy in and of itself, yet somehow the MR staff remains unmoved.
Now, here's MR's lead paragraph to the NTS Preliminary Report (the bold emphasis is mine):
Once again, Model Railroader magazine is reporting from the National Train Show, which this year is being held in Hartford, Conn., from July 10-12. What follows is a list of new products being announced by model railroad manufacturers exhibiting at the show. This is a preliminary list, including items revealed to Model Railroader before the show; products not announced until the show will be listed in a post-show report July 16.
It would seem to me that to be included in this report, a manufacturer had to do 2 things:
1) provide a press release to MR before the show.
2) be an exhibitor at the show
To make the July 16 report, a manufacturer still has to be at the show, but can provide the information during the show. Is Fox Valley exhibiting at the NTS? If not, then their new locomotive announcement would be in the normal MR monthly new product reports - but only if they sent in a press release to MR.
MR's New Product announcements are a service to the manufacturers and readers both, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that unless manufacturer X is a regular advertiser, manufacturer X has to provide a press release to MR about his product for it to get mentioned. MR isn't going to chase him down. Regular advertisers might get a reminder call from MR to get their press release in. And if the list is not alphabetical or chronological, regular advertisers will get more favorable placement for their announcement.
Frankly, I don't see anything insidious about these practices. For Fox Valley, whose products from what I have learned in these columns appeal to the more dedicated N scaler, advertising in MR just might not be worthwhile. N scalers are a minority of MR's readership, and those who will use Fox Valley's products are an even smaller minority. OTOH, the 2 N dedicated magazines, although having much smaller total readership, would have much higher percentages of likely customers - and cheaper advertising rates.
BRAKIE Lee,One of the main reasons I lean toward N Scale Railroading and N Scale magazines is the new products they list-far more then MR list in their new N Scale products column.Of course nothing new there since MR is basically a HO magazine.
Lee,One of the main reasons I lean toward N Scale Railroading and N Scale magazines is the new products they list-far more then MR list in their new N Scale products column.Of course nothing new there since MR is basically a HO magazine.
And as per usual there would be no end to the constant hard work for the hobbyist in any scale but HO to find suppliers if there were not these other magazines. IF one is going to call MRR a GENERAL hobby magazine then it had better BE one and show those 'Other Scales' advertizers as well.
As far as the 'payola' game---no surprise there---look at how much revenue publishers get from it
Larry
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I don't disagree with your argument at all. I know all too well how journalism "is supposed to work," but how something "is supposed to work" and how it does work are two very different animals. I wish that I could read a publication and not think that it was influenced in one form or another by dollars. Unfortunately that just isn't the case, right or wrong.
And GE very much has it's thumb on every single one of their subs, I know I work for one of them.
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If that's how MR runs its editorial side, then they're in a heap of trouble. What you're saying is that the strings are pulled by Wm. K Walthers, Atlas and Athearn, and anyone who comes up with a better mouse trap can pound sand till they can pay tribute to the overlords of the hobby?
I always thought that when a small manufacturer was getting started, the smart editor would throw them a bone to help them grow so that the manufacturer could see the benefit of reaching the editor's readers, and would have a pleasant reaction to being solicited by the ad salesmen.
I've got a little product that I want to introduce to the market place, but I don't have an advertising budget at all. So what you're saying is that I shouldn't bother sending a sample to MR unless I wrap it in a $20 bill?
Let's extrapolate your argument to its logical extreme... NBC should only report on the goings on at General Electric, because GE owns NBC. The New York Times should have only glowing things to say about General Motors, because they take out a full page ad once a week? Clearly you have no idea how journalism is supposed to work.
MR purports to be the leading publication of the hobby. The Fox Valley GEVO is big news in a significant sector of the hobby market. So is it news in MR's eyes or no? It would be awfully easy to fall into the old saw that "some scales are more equal than others"...
If Company A wasn't an MR advertiser I sure as heck wouldn't give them free press.
Kalmbach Publishing is a business created to generate revenue. You want to play you have to pay.
I would not be in the least bit surprised if the NTS show report thread that is now pinned to the top of the forum was compiled almost entirely from pre-show press releases and marketing sent to MRR. The manufacturers that sent in the press releases seem to also provide images for the posting. It is possible that there is even a charge to be featured in such an announcement?
MR is going to give priority to MR advertisers, and press releases and announcements made at the NTS. I don't think either of these apply to Fox Valley - the same as it doesn't apply to most of the Early Rail HO manufacturers. I don't follow N, but it sounds like Fox Valley had already announced their GEVO diesel a couple of months ago - so it's hardly an NTS announcement. Most of the HO manufacturers whose products I purchase are likewise not listed in the NTS report.
I'm sure Fox Valley, likely being only a few people at most, carefully selects which shows and forums are going to give them exposure to likely buyers of their products. With MR advertising rates being the highest in the industry, many of the small manufacturers have to think about whether their advertising dollars are best spent in MR or would another venue be more likely to reach their target audience. MR's readership is tilted towards the beginning end of the hobby in HO and N - the very folks the mainstream manufacturers are trying to reach. Manufacturers looking for more sophisticated buyers (in smaller numbers) will often advertise in other venues. As an example, many of the manufacturers I am interested in will be at the National Narrow Gauge Convention in Colorado Springs in September, but were not at the NTS.
Although MR would like us all to believe that they are a universal force in the hobby, it just ain't so.
my thoughts, yours may differ
wm3798I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and figure that it's a big hall to cover, but something tells me that if you can come up with all that HO stuff, you surely could have made at least a passing note about one of the biggest N scale news items of the year.
I'm going to suggest that the reason most surveys show N scale as a low ender in terms of popularity gets reinforced by ignoring things like that.
Then again----did their marketing/product guys get any press releases from Fox Valley?
ACH!! Just another fine example of customer having to work to find product themselves.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and figure that it's a big hall to cover, but something tells me that if you can come up with all that HO stuff, you surely could have made at least a passing note about one of the biggest N scale news items of the year.