Tortoise Switch Machines

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 CSX Very nice installation, very neat and clean just one thing Radio Shack sell wire in other colors besides green..............lol

I like the use of the slide swithc very cool idea.

[CSXDixieLine]

I love the turtles!

Glad to hear you had more success after a bit of tweaking. I just installed my first two a few months ago, even though they were purchased in 1993--how about that for procrastination! I am actually using the actuator wire that came in the box, but then again I am in N-scale with Atlas code 55 turnouts. No problems so far, although I am aware that I may need to upgrade the wire one day if trouble occurs. I have spline roadbed and the holes in the Atlas code 55 throwbars are outside the rails, so I had to mount the turtles with the centerline outside of the roadbed. This was easily accomplished by making a mounting plate out of Masonite. I really like the slow action when I set the input voltage to around 3VDC (adjustable power supply from Radio Shack). Just using a manual slide switch for now since computerized CTC is a ways off. Jamie

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 Tortoise swithc machines are hard to install if you make it that way. I actually found an old article that appeared in MR by doing a Google search on how to install a Tortoise switch machine. Yes the internet can be a beautiful thing some times.

Anyway you mount the Tortoise to a small piece of 1/4" plywood  approx. 1" x 3" with 4 small wood screws The wood is as wide as the Tortoise and about 1" on either side. I still use the stock size wire as I like the spring tension it provides helping to keep things in place so to speak but we have used thicker wire on a friends layout with no issues so it's your choice. I drill the 1/2" hole required and being as I do most of my work alone this is where the beauty of this type of install comes in handy.I first start 2 drywall screws one on either side of the turnout

I feed the wire up through the hole in the throw bar which can be easily found if you leave a small flash light lit sitting right nest to the hole but this is not always necessary. In most case I can hold the switch machine in place with one hand and clip the wire with an alligator clip with the other one. Now your free to go top side and hold the tortoise with one hand an screw in the drywall screws with your cordless screw gun and your done. You can cover the heads of the screws with ground cover later on. As far as pre-wiring goes it's a great idea but I have found using the edge connectors that Greenway Products  or All Electronics.com offers is well worth the couple of dollars you'll spend. In my case not all my switch machine have the same accessories on them so I can wire them at my leisure and then just plug them in.To hide the gaping 1/2" hole I cut a small rectangular piece of .030 styrene about 11/2" long and cut a *** just wide enough for the wire to have ample clearance approx. .040 wide usually does the trick. I slip the piece of styrene under the track covering the hole but leaving enough clearance for the wire to move freely. This way when you ballast the turnout your not filling up the 1/2" wide hole.

I wish I had pics to show you how easy it is but all my switch machines are already installed and it litterally took longer to type this post then it would to install them this way. Trust me if there is an easier way of doing things I'll do my best to try and fiind it and this works for me. Hope it helps you.

[Marc_Magnus]

Hi from Belgium again,

here are the good URL.

MARC

 

 

[Marc_Magnus]

Hi from Belgium,

I use both Tortoise and Switcmaster motors, and finally I prefer the Switchmaster motors.

I didnt place them like the Switchmaster instructions but on an handmade bracket in aluminium so the fulcrum active directly the trowbar of the turnout.

With this montage they take the same place as a Tortoise.

Two microswitch can be moved by the fulcrum for power frog or accessories.

I put two terminal on the bracket one for the motor (two wires) and one for the microswitch (three wires)

Take a look at this URL for more infos.

http://s260.photobucket.com/album/ii22/maclauriver/magnetic%20uncoupler/turnout%20motors%20bracket/

Marc

 

[emdgp92]

 I have a slightly-different method I use to install the Turtles. Rather than attempt to drill a 1/2" hole from underneath, I remove the turnout, and then drill from above. Much easier that way, plus there's no risk of an errant drill popping through a turnout. With that hole drilled, it's a simple matter of taping the template underneath the roadbed (or in my case...the plywood table), drilling the required holes, and then screwing the thing in place.

But,  even that method can prove troublesome. My current layout is sectional, and the vertical legs occasionally make the best Turtle installation difficult. In fact, one took me the better part of 3 hours! I actually had to take part of the benchwork apart, shorten a leg, install the Turtle, then put everything back together and wire the thing up. Usually, I can install one in about 20 minutes or so.

After using them for about 15 years, I can't see a need to change brands. These aren't cheap, but I've had no trouble with them. The only thing that grates, is the edge connectors I use to wire them are sometimes hard to find.

[pastorbob]

Been using them since they were first on the market.  I too use stiffer wire, especially because I have a lot of the Peco switches (with centering spring removed) and they seem a little stiffer to throw than Shinohara switches.

Anyway, it is a good product, and for anyone wanting Switch Master machines, I still have a bunch of them in storage.

Bob

[jbinkley60]

I too use stiffer wire than what comes with the Tortoises. Also, you can feed them from the top too.  I just wrap a piece of tape around the piano wire to keep it from sliding through and then I slide it through the turnout hole and down through the roadbed/subroadbed.  Then I go underneath the layout and slide it through the Tortoise guide and then bend the wire to go into the Tortoise.  Once I've screwed it into the Tortoise I go back and cut the excess piano wire on top with a strong set of diagonal cutters.

 

 

[wedudler]

 I lilke the Tortoises. They're easy to install, no difficult adjustment.

 

They're in use since July 2006, only one failed. I replaced it and tried then - at the workbench - a repair. With success. 

Wolfgang

[oldline1]

Many thanks for all the suggestions on installing the Turtles! I went to my FLHS today and bought some  .039 music wire and stopped by Home Depot and got some carpet tape. Things went much better this time and I managed to get 9 more installed and working with very little effort. They seem to be much stronger with the larger wire set at the same fulcrum point. Tomorrow will see the remaining 6 installed and the wiring will begin.

Thanks, again, for all the help w I bought the slip on connectors from Tonys so wiring will be fairly easy and I can do most of it on the bench and not upside down under the benchwork.

Again, many thanks for all the help with this problem. It proves the value of the site!

 Roger Huber 

 

[superbe]

 Trying to locate the hole in the throwbar from under the layout is near impossible

Hi Every one,

I haven't installed any machines yet, but as I laid my turnouts I  drilled a hole in the appropiate place through the layout top and then inserted a straw through the hole to feed the wire through later. This was reccomended on another thread but I don't know whether it works or not.

Has any one tried ths??

Bob 

 

[howmus]

Paul3

Once in and working, Tortoise machines are rock solid dependable.  Of the approx. 300 machines installed under our layout, only one has been replaced...and that was because someone drilled down right through the top of it with a long drill bit. 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with Paul.  The Torti are rock solid and dependable!  I have 64 of them on my home layout and none have given me any trouble at all.  I am for the most part using the wire that comes with them as most only have to go up through 3/8ths plywood and the cork roadbed to be used.  I have had no problem with the wire being too small.  On a few that have longer runs, I have installed heavier piano wire.  One trick I have used to be able to get the little wire up through the tiny hole n the turnout points is to set a light directly above the hole and I use some folded card stock to wedge the points so they stay exactly dead center for the process.  The hole will show up clearly making it much easier to get the wire through.  Works for me.  I also premount the Tortoise on a piece of 1/4" plywood (or wainscoting I had laying around) with 3 mounting screws attached to the plywood.  After I get the wire in the hole, I adjust the mounting approximately where it needs to be and tighten one of the screws.  I then complete the wiring and check out the throw of the tortoise.  Make adjustments until it works properly and then tighten the other 2 screws.  Done.

A few photos:

I prewire them as well at the bench so there is never any soldering done under the layout with them. 

Here are some installed:

I have made some interesting remote mountings for a few as well and have them throwing points from as far away as 2 foot.  These are now hidden behind the backdrop.  Since staging runs directly below the turnouts, there was not room to mount them in the usual fashion:

 

[wm3798]

 If you can, tip your layout up so you can work on it vertically instead of crawling underneath.  I was able to do that with mine, as I build the major chunks out in the garage, then haul them into the layout room.

It made the whole wiring thing a breeze.

Lee

[larak]

Sorry about your frustration Roger. Perhaps some of the tips here will be helpful to you.

I pre-bend the little hook on .039 piano wire (a long piece), drop it down through the throwbar and clamp it with forceps so that it cant fall down. This comes after blocking the points in center position.

I cover the top of the tortoise with double stick tape, screw on the wire from below and by "eyeball" stick the machine to the underside of the layout. Rarely (but not never) do I have to readjust. After a couple of tests I usually add screws. They always have enough power to hold points tightly in both directions.

BTW: Always use the center fulcrum hole or you will find a new level of frustration with geometry.

I use a 14 volt DC dual supply and one or two bicolor LEDS in series with the motor leads. 

I think thay you might simply need to :

1) use thicker piano wire

2) install the wire from the top

3) get some practice aligning the tortoise properly. The velcro idea above sounds cool.

Give it another try and walk away for a while if it gets frustrating.

Karl

[Paul3]

Roger,
Switchmaster machines are, IMHO, poor machines that have no internal frog or switch contacts of any kind.  It also requires you have a crank mechanism visible on the surface of the RoW, and takes up a lot of room under the RR.  All that, and they are $17.65 ea., only $1.30 less than a Tortoise.  If you want DPDT contacts using Switchmaster parts, you have to add $3.29...twice...for two SPDT contact switches to create one DPDT.  So to get an equivalent Switchmaster to what you get with a Tortoise is gonna cost you $24.23 ea.  Then you have to wire these contacts up under the RR and get them to line up with the moving arm of the Switchmaster.  Thanks, but no thanks.

The main flaws of the Tortoise (other than the price) is the too-thin .025" wire and the mounting tabs.  Both my club and I always use .039" wire purchased from K&S in 3' lengths (drilling out the wire mounting hole with a #61 drill), and there are several Tortoise mounting methods that have been used over the years.  My club uses 2-56 machine nuts & screws to bolt them to small 1/4" MDF mounting pads, which we then screw to the subroadbed with 1" drywall screws.  Others have used velcro, caulk, and hot glue.

To assist in putting in the throw wire, try buying the .039" wire from K&S and using the whole length for installing the Tortoise.  Then, after it's in, cut off the wire to fit, then grind it down with a Dremel.

I have literally installed hundreds of Tortoise machines at my club.  They need a big enough hole (1/2") under the points, or a big enough slot to allow the wire to flex.  Fortunately, a 1/2" diameter hole is not noticable under the combined point rails, throw bar and ties under the points of most switches.

Once in and working, Tortoise machines are rock solid dependable.  Of the approx. 300 machines installed under our layout, only one has been replaced...and that was because someone drilled down right through the top of it with a long drill bit.  Ouch. 

Paul A. Cutler III
*******************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*******************

[rrinker]

 I've never had an issue with adjusting Tortoises, but that's probably because I did a top down installation since I was using 2" pink foam as my benchwork. However, take a look at Tim Warris's CNJ Bronx Terminal web site and there's a nice video of him installing his Tortoise machines with more 'trasitional' benchwork. Anotehr ahdny trick - it IS impossible to locate the hole from underneath the layout. So you don;t drill it up from the bottom. FIRST drill down from the top and use that as a pilot hole to locate the bigger one you can then drill up from the bottom. Also use some double-sided tape - that way you can position the Tortoise before actually screwing it fast. And PLEASE tell me you didn;t try to install it with the points one way or the other - the right way to do this is center the mechanism on th Tortoise and center the throwbar. With a mere 3/4" thickness of benchwork, and free-moving turnouts liek the Walthers ones, there should be no need to replace the included wire - nor is is critical that the Tortoise be EXACTLY centered under the turnout.

 As for no power - huh? How were you powering them? They are rated for 12 volts but 9 makes them run quieter and theyhave plenty of pwoer to move handlaid solid point turnouts - the Walthers ones move VERY freely, unless you glued them to the ballast, so there shoudl be no issues whatsoever with the Tortoise being able to move the points. The Tortoises are strong enough to hold the points in position even if you cut off the power - they spring back a bit against the tension on the piano wire, but they will continue to hold the points against the stock rail. Oh, an they generally won;t work without the plastic fulcrum piece, so if you left that off, I can there being problems.

                                      --Randy

 

[Texas Zepher]

Many people forget that there are many more types of stall motor other than the Tortoise.   When I use Tortoise, the first thing I do is throw away the wire that comes with the thing and replace it with a much heavier one.

I also don't use a "hole" to mount the Tortoise wire through.  I drill two holes, side by side, and then cut out the bits left between.  That way I have a slot for the wire to run back and forth in.

I don't remember the brand of the stall motors that I first used, but I do remember joking, "Adjustment after installation, what adjustment?" 

[cacole]

 We have more Switchmasters on our HO scale club layout than Tortoise machines.

I agree that it is a real PITA to install a Tortoise from underneath, especially through a hollow core door, two layers of Sound Board, and roadbed, without someone to help guide the throw rod into the turnout throwbar's hole.  I found the easiest way was to use a long piece of music wire and put it in from the top, then bend and attach it to the Tortoise.  After the Tortoise is mounted and working, I then cut off the excess from the top.

As far as reliability is concerned, once installed there's little difference between the performance of the two types.  The Tortoise does have the advantage of the built-in switches for signals.

[donhalshanks]

Sorry you've experienced so much frustration.  I've had great success with the green things, and wouldn't change.  A couple of tips from others helped me.  I used a slightly larger diameter wire for more strength.  I let the wire be a couple inches longer than needed, which let me easily feed it up through the hole with no trouble.  (This really helped me, since I had trouble feeding it into the hole on my first one).  I used heavy duty velcro underneath and on the base of the tortoise, which let me adjust or re-adjust the position.  When properly positioned and working, I cut off the extra wire.  The velcro holds the tortoise just fine, and I don't even put in screws to hold it, which lets me make adjustments later if needed.

May the rest of your modeling be satisfying.....Hal 

 

 

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[oldline1]

Well.........I FINALLY got around to installing my Tortoise switch machines on my layout. I'm not impressed at all! I had the Switchmaster machines on my last layout and they were powerful and reliable. The only reason I changed to the Tortoise types was the amount of room required for the Switchmasters to swing and everyone else was using the Green Devils and liked them. That'll teach me to fool with a good thing!

These things are hard to install and not very powerful. I managed to get 5 installed before I had to give up in frustration. Only one went in and worked from the first. I spent way too much time adjusting the others as far as I'm concerned.

I'm using Walthers code 83 turnouts mounted on cork and 3/4" MDF. There is no ballast or scenery to confuse the issue. Trying to locate the hole in the throwbar from under the layout is near impossible! Even using the locating/drilling template isn't much help.

The whole time I was refreshing my memory as to the proper cuss words I also couldn't help repeating the old Model Railroader magazine slogan................"Model Railroading Is Fun!" Maybe that's why they changed the slogan? LOL

Roger Huber