First of all, I want to thank everybody that posted advice for me. I took all of the hints into consideration and spent a couple of hours at the workbench tonight. I worked on 4 cars at about 30 min. each. I found lots of the problems that you guys had described. I found a few others as well. On all of the cars, after straightening out the metal lighting pads, and filing the screw heads, I found the screws to be binding on that little cross piece on the underframe that looks to be some representation of a bolster. I chucked up a grinding bit in my Dremel, and smoothed that out even with the rest of the floor. This did not effect the overall hight of the car, the couplers still line up perfectly on the Kadee gauge. Then, on 2 of the cars that had the "longer" style trucks, I found there to be a sprue, or some kind of protrusion on the top of the brake cylinder that was interfering with the sides of the body casting. I filed the sprue or whatever off. Finally, it seems that there is no way for the trucks to move freely unless the bolster screws are backed off 1/4-1/2 turn. I am concerned about these "loose screws" falling out, so once I get everything fully tested, I will probably use some loctite or something on those screws. All this working on the running gear caused me to lose a couple of the roof grabs that were so much fun to install to begin with, I hope I have some extras in my parts bin. As some of you have noted, I see NO EXCUSE for a $50.00 piece of rolling stock to be this poorly designed and/or manufactured. If I had any idea about the "quality" of these cars I never would have bought them. Anyway, I have a big freight on my mainline right now, and after all the "fun" at the workbench tonight I really didn't feel like dealing with yarding the freight so I just pulled the string by hand across a few of the trouble spots and so far, so good. I will give them the full treatment this weekend when I get some more free time. But, thanks again guys, I was just about to the point of seeing if I could turn an 80 foot passenger car into an airplane if you know what I mean...
Todd
Dave,
You too bring up some good points! I have been in the hobby since the '50s and had some unmet expectations with some of the manufacturers back in the '70s - '80s especially. You know, if it wasn't for Athearn, I honestly doubt I would have stayed in the hobby.
I've got some familiarity with overseas production, and I believe it is relatively common that many of the folks building our "toys" have little knowledge as to what we expect of them. This could also be mitigated by the pressure cooker environment they might have to "keep the line running".
Funny you mentioned Rapido, for I was one of those that did NOT get their Illinois Central baggage cars as they were shipped with the signage - Central Illinois!
Ha, all that being said, I will continue to buy more Walther's cars as they produce what I want. But I still expect to get a car that will run decently around a loop of 26" radius track.
Hey, in spite of the above, we are living in the best times for MR products!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
CHECK THE DIAPHRAMS!!!!! Walthers has 2 or 3 styles depanding on Budd/Pullman and maybe which RR. I had a couple pairs of cars that would not play nice together on my 28" curves at vertical transitions. The bottom corner of one diaphram would slip inside the other on the curve, lifting the rear truck off the track and actually derailing someplace else. Sorry, no real solution other than keeping the cars in the correct orientation (yes, turning the car around helped) or changing the sequence, so it plays nice with the car next to it.
ALSO -- check the INSIDE of the couple cover box. The broad thing that holds the couple up and lets it swing from side to side. You will see a casting sprue in the middle that the drawbar has to slide over. A few have a burr there that needs to be filed so the couple swings freely.
Phil
Timber Head Eastern Railroad "THE Railroad Through the Sierras"
mobilman44 It is fully understandable that the end user (us) will occasionally run into a problem with a newly purchased ready built car or loco. But the frequency and variation of the problems noted with the Walther's passenger cars - in this and several previous Forum postings - is just unacceptable.
It is fully understandable that the end user (us) will occasionally run into a problem with a newly purchased ready built car or loco. But the frequency and variation of the problems noted with the Walther's passenger cars - in this and several previous Forum postings - is just unacceptable.
A very legitimate point, and I hope Walthers is listening, but for those of us who remember when the ultimate in expensive ready to run was the brass steam locomotive, well, those things always needed tinkering before running so perhaps we veterans take in stride the problems with today's Walthers plastic RTR.
I think maybe also in the Athearn era we became accustomed to thinking that kits should be a little cheaper than RTR and that in some way RTR is "premium priced" giving us a reason to expect commensurate quality. Is this really the case, however - quite apart from the fact that Walthers does not offer kit versions of the passenger cars?
I suspect that if Walthers tried to offer kit equivalents of these passenger cars that they would probably cost more than the RTR. That is, the presumably lesser market for kits, coupled with the higher supervisory quality control needed to make sure every part is in every box, as opposed to just plopping a finished car in a box, perhaps also larger size boxes, the need for inventory of parts to resolve consumer complaints, and LHS resistance to stocking kits, would make kits pricier. So comparing the reality of the RTR to the hypothetical of a kit version, it may well be that the RTR versions are in a sense the bargain versions with lower quality.
(It would be interesting to know what the assembly line workers, and their bosses, in China think they are assembling -- do they really know that we purchasers expect to actually run these things in trains? Would they do better work if they understood what was expected of the cars? Would the designers learn to avoid these booby traps? Remember how badly the short lived Ertl HO freight cars ran -- hardly at all -- and the explanation was that Ertl makes collectibles, not running trains, and that the cars were only meant to look like they should run. It was as if we modelers were being unreasonable to expect a car to run just because it had wheels and couplers. I wonder if that is how the assembly line in China thinks about the passenger cars.)
This is not an argument for accepting low quality goods. Walthers needs to do better but my suspicion is that they have arrived at a price point that is achieved by economizing on stuff like quality control and as long as that price point gives them a market advantage over Rapido and other makes, they'll sell the stuff and we'll grumble, but at the end of the day, we'll take our chances. Or stated another way, Red Caboose had excellent quality control for its RTR and priced it accordingly, and Red Caboose is about to go the way of ... the red caboose.
Dave Nelson
Hi again,
I reread all the posts here and have to make another comment.........
As I wrote earlier, I have 29 of the cars, and admire them a lot. But I paid "good money" for them, and expect them to run easily without derailments on well laid track. Unfortunately, all were in need of lubrication (not a major problem), and still, about 15 percent (5) were in need of various adjustments.
It just ain't right...................
Todd, I have two set of Walthers hvywts, and found several things helped me. Derailments can be because the diaphragms aren't installed well, and will not collapse flat against the doorframe when under pressure on curves, especially sharper than 36" radius. Inspect six wheel trucks on a flat surface to make sure all six wheels touch. If so and your track is flat, no problem there. As far as bolster screw tightness, I make sure there is some angle play in both fore-aft and side-to-side.
In the end, I didn't like the rolling characteristics of Walthers six-wheel trucks, and although I could make some improvement, the wheels would not spin for six-ten seconds, which is my criterion. I decided to swap them for Branchline trucks, which have special bearings. Now the Walthers roll like Blueprint cars. Easy swap, too.
Hal
I haven't had a lot of problems with my Walthers passenger cars, and I've got enough to make up 3 trains, one streamline, one Pullman Standard and another a 'mix'.
But I will say, that what problems I've had, tend to come from several different sources. On one, the contact screws on the tops of the trucks were ragged and kept catching on the lighting pickups on the bottom of the car. I filed the screw-tops down a little and no problem. On another, the brake hangars were catching on the skirting. Filed the inside of the skirting, no problem. On two others, the trucks were too tight.
So there seems to not be one PARTICULAR problem with derailing on these cars, when they do, it can often be due to several factors. My advice: Inspect the cars carefully before you start running them. They're fine cars, but they DO need 'tweaking'.
One thing I do recommend, though, and right at first--replace the couplers with Kadees. The cars are simply too heavy for the couplers supplied by the mfgr., and the thinner plastic shanks tend to droop alarmingly. And follow the mfgr's recommendation for the trucks--they are metal to metal and they do need lubrication. Either very light oil or graphite. Believe me, it makes all the difference in the world as to rolling capability.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
A couple of things on the earlier release Walther's passenger cars:
The diaphragms have a metal spring attached to the inside of the car that I have dealt with because of them causing de-railments (the newer cars have plastic springs that are a part of the diaphragm that are a lot less rigid).
Check the guage of the wheels. A few of the earlier cars came with wheels that were out of guage.
As mentioned several times before, the pickups for the lighting can play hell. The cars just aren't heavy enough, and those pickups can cause the cars to de-rail on tighter radii. I just depressed the ones on an offending car, and that fixed it right up.
A few of mine would often derail at random spots. On close inspection of the offending cars, I noticed that the trucks were twisted as well as the bolster screw too tight not allowing proper front to rear movement. All other cars were checked and found that many others had the same problem with the skewed/ twised truck. These were also the ones that had some of the screws not seated or cocked.
Do remember to oil the journals on the wheelsets. Many complain about the poor rolling quality. This improves them immensly.
Those metal tabs for the pu need to remain as already noted. I did however have to flaten a few that were not placed/ seated right.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I had enough problems with Walthers PX cars derailing and/or moving very slowly that I swapped most OE wheelsets out for 36" Intermountains. Much better after that. Money investment and time consuming with unscrewing the trucks and getting them back together, but worth it I think.
And the Walthers 36" metal wheels didn't go to waste. I found them good replacements for OE @33" IHC and Rivarossi HW Px car plastic wheelsets. Also made the cars' replacement McHenry couplers ride higher for better coupling.
Good luck,
Dave
USAF (Retired)
I'm assuming you ar refferring to the metal pickups for the lighting sets? I'd just go ahead and take them out, especially if you aren't gonna light, or use one of the battery light options sucha s Rapido instead
-Morgan
I was using my Walthers commuter bi levels, never actually run on a layout, to test some intricate crossovers and was baffled by the constant derailing of two of the five cars. Since it was only some of the cars I figured that meant the trackwork was not fundamentally the problem (which did not prevent me from doing plenty of futile tinkering with the track of course).
I cannot swear as to the construction of all Walthers passenger cars but on the bilevels there is thin metal, almost a silvery foil, where the trucks meet the car body. The foil was somewhat distorted. I pushed the foil flat against the body using a cotton swab. Once that foil was smoothed out, the two derailing cars ran as well as the others did. I am not sure of the purpose of the foil but perhaps it relates to the optional lighting that can be added to the cars.
I assume some casualness during assembly of the car resulted in the foil becoming distorted. It is so thin that it does distort easily.
To add one more twist to what others have said here, on certain cars, the brake hangers on the ends of the trucks catch on the skirting on the car. In particular, the PS diner did that for me. All the other cars would make it around a 27" curve on the local club layout, but that one would derail every time it went around a curve that was less than 32". A little shaving on the inside of the skirting solved the problem.
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
If they are three wheel trucks, try removing the center wheel set. If it helps, look for dips or peaks in the rails.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Hi!
Recently I pulled out a few Walther's passenger cars (ATSF Super Chief & IC) to use as test vehicles on my under construction HO layout. The 11x15 layout has a 2 percent incline down to lower level staging tracks, and that is the area currently being tested. Minimum radius on this incline & lower level is 26".
Well, while freight cars with Intermountain wheelsets just "flew" down the incline, the Walthers cars would barely move, and you could stop them anywhere on the incline and they would stay put. Folks on this Forum advised me that the axles needed a bit of oil (not needed on any other cars in my fleet), and sure enough, that made a difference.
Regarding your derailment problem, I would make certain that the radius where they occur truly is the 26 or 27". It is possible when laying a curve with flextrack that small portions have a much different radii than others or the overall curve.
As other posters indicated, check for free movement of the couplers and trucks. And when all else fails, identify exactly where the derailment occurs and recheck track gauge and move the string of cars with your 0-5-0 switcher slowly thru the problem area. Look closely, and the problem may be evident.
I have 29 of these cars, and only a few have been tested. So it is very possible I'll have a problem with the others when I get them on the layout. Soooo, I am very interested in all the possible solutions that folks post here.
Hey, ENJOY!
Are they derailing all over the place, or at a few isolated spots? It may be a combination of exceptionally fussy cars and slightly imperfect trackwork. I had "perfect" trackwork until I bought my first steam engine, and then I had to rip up a couple of sections just for that one. Then, I had to do it again for the next fussy steamer.
Run the cars very slowly over a typical trouble spot. Watch the wheels, and see where they start to ride up and "climb over" the rails. They may not completely derail at low speed, but chances are you'll see a wheel start to leave the railhead. Check the track at that point and make sure it's level. You may even get away with shimming the outer rail up a bit to keep the wheels from going over the top.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Had the same problem with mine. may seem a bit radical but I completly disasembled the trucks and put them back together again.(thats all I did nothing else.) and have had no more trouble since. I think what I did may have taken the factory tightness out which has let them move more freely. I can back them though #6 crossovers and round 28" curves with no problems now. hope that helps
Paul
DigitalGriffin They (walthers cars) seem to be very hit or miss. Luckily I had no real problems with the 12 I own, except for 1 car. 1. Check the coupler can swing freely 2. Check the contact screws on top of the trucks. See if they are rough. If they are, file then down a little. Sometimes a rough head will get stuck on the pads beneath What radius are you running them around?
They (walthers cars) seem to be very hit or miss.
Luckily I had no real problems with the 12 I own, except for 1 car.
1. Check the coupler can swing freely
2. Check the contact screws on top of the trucks. See if they are rough. If they are, file then down a little. Sometimes a rough head will get stuck on the pads beneath
What radius are you running them around?
3. Are they derailing at the same spot?
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Thanks Don, I have a minimum radius of 27" on my mainline. Good idea about the screw heads. I;ll look at that tomorrow.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I love the looks of my Walthers Passenger cars, but they won't stay on the rails. I'm pretty sure it's not my track, I regularly run 40-car freights that include 86 foot hi-cubes without any trouble. I have tried loosening the screws on the bolsters, that didn't help. I thought about loosening up the truck sideframe screws, but that seems to be a bad idea, given a quick "bench-test". (ruins the geometry of the axle points in the journals). Any ideas would be great. Could it be the diaphragms? I hope not, those are the best points of those cars. Has anyone tried swapping out the trucks? Please, I am at wits-end here. Any advice on this?