Attention serious modelers....

[AggroJones]

For the people who like things to look real,
who out there would be interested in purchasing professionally weathered locomotives off the internet? Newer stuff, like P2K 1st gen diesels, BLI steamers, Spectrum steamers,and items like that. I figure I can make some extra money from my talent. My weathering would consist of many things in my aging arsonal--air brushing, dry brushing, powders, washes, etc. I'm trying to get some idea of the market for pre-weathered, high-end, HO locomotives. Is there any intrest for this?

The best way to get 'em out there would be Ebay. I would have to get over my fear of it. My people tell me I'm too paranoid.

Any thoughts or question?

[Jetrock]

Maybe the serious modelers are the wrong people to ask--serious modelers, for the most part, would want to weather their own equipment. Speaking for myself, I'd almost rather weather my equipment than run it--although I am cringing a bit at the thought of applying liberal amounts of grime to the P2K Western Pacific S-1 I just bought!

[Anonymous]

There's news on the front that the big names are going to start producing pre-weathered equipment soon, so you may have missed the niche already.

Jay

[Jetrock]

Ick! Where's the fun in that??

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NTDN

There's news on the front that the big names are going to start producing pre-weathered equipment soon, so you may have missed the niche already.

What? When did you hear this? As far as I know, the only American one is the Bachmann USRA 2-6-6-2.

[Anonymous]

Aggro, if you build it, they will come. Not sure about the numbers but some will come. My guess, not many, but some.

John

[Anonymous]

A weathering service, where you custom-match customer's prototype photographs on the equipment they send you, might be viable. For pre-weathered equipment, I agree with the sentiment that they'd be more popular among the less-serious modelers, and for that reason I'd suggest doing the weathering to cheaper ready-to-run equipment. You could do things like body-mount Kadee couplers and add weight as well, to transform cheapo plasticville stuff into impressive models, ready-to-run. In fact, this is exactly what I am in the midst of doing to my old N-scale collection, replacing wheelsets, adding weight, and weathering the Bachmann and Model Power cars to a degree that they blend in with my newer Micro-Trains quality rolling stock.

I wouldn't buy from you, but that's because I'm a serious modeler and enjoy doing these tasks.

[AggroJones]

Well, its aimed at modelers who don't have the time and/or skill, but want a locomotive weathered prototypically correct.

[Anonymous]

Agro, don't become discourged, take a risk. After all, if you don't risk anything, you don't gain anything.

John

[brothaslide]

Go for it!!!!

Ask your LHS to let you put up a flyer to advertise your work. Start your pricing on the low side and then increase as your reputation grows. Word of mouth will get your name out there. There is a market for it.

Consider a pricing structure - Do you want to charge by the hour or a flat fee for specific type of work (a combo of both might work.).

Keep track of your material costs. If you underbid jobs then you will loose money becuase all the money you make will go to cover the cost of paints, chalks, etc.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

QUOTE: Originally posted by NTDN

There's news on the front that the big names are going to start producing pre-weathered equipment soon, so you may have missed the niche already.

What? When did you hear this? As far as I know, the only American one is the Bachmann USRA 2-6-6-2.

It's late,i can't sleep, So I can't quote the exact spot i saw it, but at the latest modeling expo in Europe, several manufacturers (included prominate American ones) were displaying some pre-production upcoming models pre-weathered. Most were stating that by the end of the year they'll be producing their best sellers in a pre-weathered version as well as a non-weathered version.

Jay

[Roadtrp]

Aggro,

I think people like me would be interested in using your service. I can't consider myself a "serious modeler" yet because I don't have the skill or experience. I hope to become one someday though. I would purchase nicely weathered locos to enhance the quality of my layout before I was to the point of being able to do it myself. I also think it would be a great learning tool. Sure, you can read magazines and books, but there is nothing like holding a finished product in your hands to give you ideas on what to do.

I'm not sure the mass-produced weathering will do that well. From what I've seen on this forum everyone has their own taste in weathering. Some like light weathering; some like totally annihilated Dash-8's. [;)]

I think a custom service where a person could give some input on what they want in the way of weathering might be a success. [:)]

[Anonymous]

Aggro,

There are several people already on Ebay doing this with rolling stock. Search "weathered" in HO and they will come up. One guy buys old train miniatures kits and basically airbrushes them in several coats. The cars sell for $10-25 each depending on the rarity.

I have tried to sell weathered Athearn cars... no one was interested. I think this was because they were too common. My impression is that it may not pay well depending on how much time you put in on them. I know that the cars I put up took hours and I couldn't get $5.00 each for em'. I figured I'd keep them rather than give them away.

I have also noticed that built up buildings have the same problem. With the exception of some weathered Walthers cornerstone series building that went for $160 each... To contrast this, my friend barely got $50 for a board by board ore tipple that was craftsman quality and took him many hours to complete.

To sum up, do some research first and expect it to take some time for people to get to know your work. The guy doing the TM kits took a little while to get good prices for his stuff. I agree with other posters that your market is not serious modelers, but people who don't have the time or skill to do it themselves. This may mean that you might want to adjust your choice of rolling stock.

I also agree with the idea that weathering is a bit subjective when it comes to how much is appropriate. I love stuff that looks like it may fall apart any minute, there are lots of guys who would consider my stuff way over the top. To reach his own, but this might cause you problems on the business side of things with regards to how much to weather models for sale.

My two cents,

Guy

[simon1966]

Some of the best bargains I have purchased on e-bay were assembled, weathered, kadee equipped freight cars that cost less than the model and couplers would have cost in kit form. I purchased a few so that I could see weathering effects by others before trying myself. Now I would not purchase a pre-weathered car.
http://www.geocities.com/trainart/
Here is the web site of a chap I have seen at train shows. The main business is weatherd and assembled structures, but I would expect, given the pricing that they would appeal to a similar crowd to your target market. They sell a few pieces on e-bay, but I think for less than the web site retail and use e-bay more as a means of advertising and getting the word out to prospective buyers. The Walthers Union station which can be purchased in kit form for $45.00 (I just got it) sells for $325 plus S/H. assembled, painted and weathered. I should say it is offered at this price. I have no idea if it sells at this price! From a business point of view, structures would require significantly less up front investment than locomotives to build up an inventory to sell, so the custom weathering to a customers specification may be the better approach. I would suggest doing a couple of locomotives you want to keep (in case they don't sell) and put them on e-bay with good photos (essential) and a reserve that makes sure you are not giving them away and see what happens. If there is no demand in the global market place, this may be your answer. It will not cost you more than a few dollars in listing fees if they do not sell. I think the problem with any artwork is that in todays economy to mark up a reasonable labor rate per hour often makes the completed work out of the reach of most. My wife designs and makes very detailed and published needle art pieces. 100 hours at $10/hour plus materials and a pillow would sell for $1000. It is not going to happen. I think you may find the same problem with your art.
Good luck

[Anonymous]

Aggro:

I think Simon made a sensible suggestion. Make up two or three samples and see how it goes.

Randy

[dano99a]

Aggro-

Here's my thoughts:
I offer a service that models engines that are not avaliable, for example, A friend wanted a model the #5833 of the Chesapeake & Ohio but none exist. P2K or no other manufacturer produce this road number with all the detail to boot. He liked the detail of P2K but, again they don't produce that road number with the correct paint scheme on the GP7.

My offer to him was, I bought a blank P2K GP7 phase 2 (like the prototype) painted, decaled and numbered it. Then weathered it. All to a prototype photo he supplied of what scheme he wanted and how much weathering he wanted. Total cost to him was $120. That's the model, the paint, the decals (there's an extra charge if I have to make the decals myself), the detail parts specific to the C&O (small bell front and center, 5 chime horn) and my time . He loved it.

Since then I have found that there is a market in having someone, "create" a locomotive for them. Manufacturers only produce certain numbers and paint schemes. Beyond that, it's up to us modelers to do it ourselves. There are people out there who would rather pay someone to do it for them than mess with it themselves. Either it's they don't have an air brush and all the equipment for one or they don't feel they can get it to the quality they like, or they just really don't have the time (and doing this sure takes time). Or in some cases they physically can't and they really appreciate the help from people like us.

So, like everyone else above, get some samples together and start showing it to people. You'd be surprised, don't get discouraged if it doesn't take off immediatly. I found that once you do one for someone, his(or her) buddies come around requesting the same thing.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NTDN

There's news on the front that the big names are going to start producing pre-weathered equipment soon, so you may have missed the niche already.

Jay

Hornby are doing this in OO scale already, as are Bachmann on some of their OO locos. The Hornby weathering is fairly light - looks as though the loco has been in service for a few weeks without a wash. I'm assuming their intention is that anyone wanting a heavier coating of gunge can add to the factory weathing.

[cwclark]

serious modelers weather their own equipment

[Anonymous]

I do custom painting and customized models. I dropped my wheathering service becasue it was not all that popular, and the people that did use it were way to finicky about how their wheathering was done.

I personally feel that pre-wheathered models are overwheathered for my tastes. I will do my stuff my self.

James

[orsonroy]

From what I've seen on Ebay, the weathered cars that get sold the most are modern cars that have extensive grafitti. These cars (mostly the top of the line newer models) will command prices above $50. Everything else sits without bids, especially shake-the-box transitional era stuff.

I've done some weathering for people, and they're generally happy with it. But I show them my own cars first, so show them what a decent weathering job can do to a car. Whenever I run a weathered, authentic, steam-era train at a show (N scale or HO), I get a lot of compliments and "wow, that's realistic!" comments, but I get as many comments about how people don't like weathered cars.

So it's a crap shoot. Watch Ebay for awhile to see how consumers react to weathered cars, and put a few up for sale (realistically, Ebay is about the only place you're going to be able to sell enough to add supplemental income to your wallet). Then advance to engines, especially modern stuff that's correctly painted and detailed. Your absolute best way to sell items would be to base the weathering job on a prototype photo, showing both the prototype and the model on the auction page.

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Avondaleguy

A weathering service, where you custom-match customer's prototype photographs on the equipment they send you, might be viable. For pre-weathered equipment, I agree with the sentiment that they'd be more popular among the less-serious modelers, and for that reason I'd suggest doing the weathering to cheaper ready-to-run equipment. You could do things like body-mount Kadee couplers and add weight as well, to transform cheapo plasticville stuff into impressive models, ready-to-run. In fact, this is exactly what I am in the midst of doing to my old N-scale collection, replacing wheelsets, adding weight, and weathering the Bachmann and Model Power cars to a degree that they blend in with my newer Micro-Trains quality rolling stock.

I wouldn't buy from you, but that's because I'm a serious modeler and enjoy doing these tasks.

I've seen articles in magazines where people have weatherd a model to "match" a photo.
I have never seen one where the model really looked like the prototype, although I am usually impressed by the model and the weathering if I ignore the prototype photo.

Upgrading models is worthwhile. Many of the "cheap" models are more accurate than the look a first and can be used as the basis for a first class model.

You might want to consider "collectors value" before upgrading or weathering. Most cheap or even more expensive models don't have any, but a few do. On the other hand a hobby shop owner told me about a customer/friend of his who bought a $1300 O gauge loco (a collectors item) and immediately repainted it for his own road reducing the value to about $200. No the man was not stupid. He wanted it painted for his road and was willing to pay the cost.

[Anonymous]

Suggest you contact some of the railroad historic societies and discussion groups and inquire as to wheter or not their members might be interested in custom painted and decorated rolling stock and motive power that accurately portrayed prototype equipment on that railroad. There are some railroads, such as the L & N and N. C. & St. L, as an example, that are hurting for moderate cost models, especially late steam/1st gen. diesel era rolling stock decorated for those roads. Consider offering your weathering as an option. . .

Any of the coal haulers may be good candidates since they had huge quantities of filthy equipment - hoppers especially. There isn't any way a manufacturer could offer convincing weathering of cars that would be used in large quantities in a single train, or populating a yard, because all the weathering would look alike and that would look toylike, at best. Or imagine a 30 car block of reefers all weathered the same, or perhaps a similar consist of NYC red & gray "Pacemaker" box cars with soot, grime, rust, and bird dung in exactly the same place on each car. . . What would a string of 'Rail Box'es look like with identical graffiti on each car?

Consider what Bachmann is charging for their weathering on the 2-6-6-2 as a guide for your pricing structure. Be prepared to show some of your work. The idea of featuring it in a LHS is a good one. Determine what railroads are most often modeled (and what era) in what price range in your area. Then wait and see if you get any calls and/or sales. Put a few pieces on eBay with clear pictures and again, wait and see. As an internet seller be fair in your s&h charges to make that a non- issue.

G scale may offer some opportunities since those folks usually don't wince, or if they do they get over it, at high crazy prices for everything. In my opinion, if any rolling stock or engines need improved paint, decorating, and could benefit from weathering , it is plastic G scale. Could be some opportunity for custom decorating for fictitious railroads like 'Petunia Central' and all the cutsey names made up by the wives in the garden. (they need to get back in the kitchen or do the laundry. If they insist on being in the garden they should mow the lawn while they're there.)

Good luck and don't give up on your idea.

[AggroJones]

Thanks to all who responded. Once I build up enough capital, I'll get somthing, age it, and try it on Ebay. I'll put one up as a trial unit.

[on30francisco]

I think this would be a useful service for some people whether or not they're serious modelers. (Whatever the definition of a serious modeler is?) I prefer to weather my models myself even though they sometimes don't come out the way I want them to. It takes some trial and error to learn. The best technique is to practice on a model that isn't important. If it comes out unacceptable, so what! Try again using a different method. For myself this is part of the fun (and frustration sometimes) of this hobby. Eventually I get good (and sometimes great) results.

[tstage]

I can't remember where I saw it but one of the big HO companies (BLI I think?) was offering pre-weathered locomotives as a listed item.

Correction!
Just found the ad in the Sept. 2004 MR magazine (p. 74). Bachmann's Spectrum series is offering both a weathered and non-weathered version of their 2-6-6-2 Articulated Locomotive. The ad says:

"Bachmann worked with renowned custom painter and high-detail model railroad authority Robert Hunter to create the first professionally weathered, ready-to-run locomotives for steam-era modelers..."

Non-weathered - MSRP: $349.00
Weathered - MSRP: $399.00

Tom

[AggroJones]

Here are some examples.

[twhite]

Aggro: I'LL bite! I'm about the worst locomotive painter I've ever met. I'd love to get some of my fleet weathered. Had a neat guy here that did some for me, but unfortunately he passed away this summer. My weathering consists of standing back with a can of Floquil Grimy Black, aiming and hoping. You guessed it, most of my roster looks like it should have LIONEL LINES on the tenders.

[Anonymous]

Good Evening Aggro:

Send me an e-mail and lets talk. Please enclose your Phone Number.

My e-mail is [e-mail]

Have a blessed day and remember SANTA FE ALL THE WAY
Bob

[BRAKIE]

Well being a semi serious modeler I like my locomotives to look real..However I drawl the line at weathering except for lightly weathering the trucks and fuel tanks on locomotives and painting the trucks on my freight cars.Why? I found that a locomotive or car in mint condition and not weathered brings a better use price when I sell the car or engine.Until that market changes I will not weather my cars or engines except as noted.Also this is due in part by the limited run market that the manufacturers are using.
Now,would I buy a pre-weather car or engine? Yes..BUT only IF its not overly weathered or trash by graffiti.[:D]

[NevinW]

I have seen some detailed weathered locomotives that were being sold at model railroad meets like the Great Scale Train Show at Timonium. Based on what I saw, I think that there might be a market for extremely well done weathered diesels. - Nevin