DruthersSmall steam in the redwoods. I can't think of anything more cool that an HO 4-4-0 running through 30-36" redwood trees and 24-30" Douglas firs. I like the 1880-1900 equipment, but I'm flexible. Shasta/Lassen and the Sierras are also under consideration.I have a built silver mine craftsman kit, but I'm not married to it. Enough work to keep 4-5 guys busy for several hours. Logging is pretty important. I have 3 geared locos and 18 logging cars I've never used. I'm pretty familiar with logging operations and have some 1000 photos from the early 20th century that rotate on my screen saver.
I like doing yard work as well and want those jobs at ops sessions. So a 3-4 track yard or larger would be good. I've even imagined a ferry set-up like in Oakland. Can be industry related yard work. I prefer prototype but can either bend reality or freelance. Anyway, I seem to be wanting big-city ops in an old-time small railroad setting.
I did a lot of research on the California Western and had worked up a plan to connect with Northwestern Pacific in 1917. One of the reasons I gave it up was that their primary motive power was 2-6-2T's and I shuddered at building them all. I'm now reconsidering.
On a related note, anyone have experience with Mantua or Bachmann 2-6-2's? What needs to be done to them to make them run reliably?
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
BTW: I really liked the Nevada County Narrow Guage in concept, but they never ran more than three trains daily. I really want to host ops sessions. Very high on my druthers list. Here is the plan I came up with. I'm posting it here to show the space I have.
SpaceMouseBTW: I really liked the Nevada County Narrow Guage in concept, but they never ran more than three trains daily. I really want to host ops sessions.
We share the same likes, something about small steam and big timber. Question, just because the Nevada County Narrow Gauge only ran 3 trains a day, why limit yourself to that? Are you concerned about the rivet counters? If that is the case have you researched the McCloud River Railway?
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/History/History01.html
Mostly a logging railroad than was in operation until recently. Not sure of the daily train count but personally that would not prevent me from modeling an appealing railroad, I would up the trains per day for ops sessions.
Just a suggestion.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Hi Spacemouse,
Have you check out the Sierra Railroad that ran from Oakdale to Tuolumne City, with a branch to Angel Camp. Had some Lumber, Minning, Cattle, and Marble works. Might be what you are looking for.
I can't help with your op's but I love those big trees. I have planted four giant redwoods on my property. What makes my jaw drop is seeing a logging car with one big log on it. It is quite something. On the biggest redwoods the lower branches can have a 9' diameter and have been milled themselves.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Chip:
Look into:
Sierra Railway and logging connections at Sonora and Tuolomne City (both narrow guage--Westside Lumber company--and one large standard gauge line run by the Pickering Lumber company).
Fernley and Lassen (Susanville/Westwood) and Red River Lumber company (they even had electrified trackage). Both SP branch line action and connection to WP "High Line". However, major operations on this railroad would be more in the 1930's.
Placerville and Lake Tahoe railroad (never made it to Lake Tahoe, but plenty of logging operations around Placerville)
SP branch line from Chico to Paradise and Sterling City mills.
Feather River Lumber Company (Oroville and Middle Fork of Feather River)
Just some thoughts.
You could still standard-gauge the NCNG--the actual railroad thought about it many times.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Brent,
You got it.
Travon,
I think that was too obvious. But a cursory check of Google didn't provide a lot. I may have some stuff in my personal library. You have any favorite books?
GS,
A little far north, but looks interesting. I'll give it a better look. I have lots of info on short railroads further north, but I was born right next to the CW.
Tom,
Thanks.
I'll play around with those suggestions and see what I could come up with. I just about finished the Best book. It was a good read. I learned a lot just by studying the trackwork.
Danged, I wish I still had my Sanborn password. It would make this search a lot easier.
Chip ask: You have any favorite books?
Yes "Sierra Railway" by Dorothy Newell Deane;
Howell-North Berkeley, California 1960
SpaceMouseDruthersSmall steam in the redwoods. I can't think of anything more cool that an HO 4-4-0 running through 30-36" redwood trees and 24-30" Douglas firs. I like the 1880-1900 equipment, but I'm flexible. Logging is pretty important.
DruthersSmall steam in the redwoods. I can't think of anything more cool that an HO 4-4-0 running through 30-36" redwood trees and 24-30" Douglas firs. I like the 1880-1900 equipment, but I'm flexible. Logging is pretty important.
Take the NCNG plan.
Plant big trees.
Change the names on the stations. Tell everybody its in redwood country.
Add the industries you want.
Run the number of trains you want.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Ed,
I have a similar book, simply called "The Northwestern Pacific Railroad. Good book.
Dave,
I've pretty much decided that in order to get th LDEs I'm looking for, I have to put them all into a melting pot and stir. What I've come up with is a sawmill with 2-3 logging camps and is quite a bit smaller than the the Union Lumber Co (that owns the CW). The small logging line connects with the NWP about half-way between Ukiah and Eureka. That way I get the Eureka and Ukiah yards, the lumber operation, lots of industries and a fair amount of traffic. Oh yeah, all this happens about 7 years before the NWP was completed.
Coincidently, I've found a lumber line, the Diamond and Caldor that connected to the SP at Diamond Springs. The connection is just to the south of Placerville on the SP branch from Sacramento. They run lumber and 4 passenger trains per day. They were owned by the California Door company in Oakland so there were regular shipments to their home plant in Oakland. Their motive power was standard geared steam. (although the owned a lot of 2-truck Shays.) Anyway, I should be able to model yards at Placerville and the connetion to the SP main south of Sacramento. Nedless to say, I am only in the preliminary research stage so far.
Anyway, what I've found is very close to the LDE soup I made above--only in the Sierras.
If you have found your passion go for it.
The caveat I would offer, as with the NCNG, is that a picking a shortline lumber road is really focusing your efforts. I won't say that your interests have wandered all over the map, lets just say you have an eclectic taste. Will building a railroad with such a focused theme hold your interest?
Somehow I get the feeling that a more generic, somewhat freelanced, more "mainline" type operation would allow you the freedom to wander and inject variety and still keep the overall concept plausible.
SpaceMouse Druthers(snip) I did a lot of research on the California Western and had worked up a plan to connect with Northwestern Pacific in 1917. One of the reasons I gave it up was that their primary motive power was 2-6-2T's and I shuddered at building them all. I'm now reconsidering. On a related note, anyone have experience with Mantua or Bachmann 2-6-2's? What needs to be done to them to make them run reliably?
Druthers(snip) I did a lot of research on the California Western and had worked up a plan to connect with Northwestern Pacific in 1917. One of the reasons I gave it up was that their primary motive power was 2-6-2T's and I shuddered at building them all. I'm now reconsidering.
Both of the above locomotives (and a great many other similar examples) have been offered in brass, most of them quite a few years ago (1960's & 70's) and thus likely to be found at reasonable prices today, although they might need remotoring.
Neither Mantua's Prairie, nor Bachmann's 2-6-2, are suitable basic kitbashing material for creating a typical logging/mining locomotive of the sort illustrated in your post. A much better starting point would be the MDC 0-6-0T Baldwin "Yard Hog" from years ago, which is almost identical with your first illustrated loco and whose frame has room for both a small lead and trailing truck. Two of these engines are currently available on eBay.
With regard to making the Mantua Prairie a better runner, check out the retro-fit motors offered by Yardbird Classic Trains (among others).
CNJ831
CNJ,
Thanks for the advice. I have an MDC 0-6-0 T and had planned to use that for #12. I had not decided anything on #14 as the rounded saddle tanks on #12 are not a good fit for #14's side tanks. I have a 2-6-2 Mantua, but the open motor is a concern and the brushes are less than great.
Frankly, it's not a problem I have addressed in a few years.
I think you've nailed it. In all the lumber or mining operations I've designed there has always been a connection with an interchange with a mainline--although the CW had a lot of traffic between logging, freight, lumber and passneger service. But lumber by itself, won't cut it. I view it as one industry or so. (Towle railroad had pulp/paper in addition to lumber, and the Diamond and Caldor has a box factory.) One industry does not make 4-5 guys running twice a month worth of operations.
Chip,
Check out Rick Hamman's "California Central Coast Railways", which covers the history of the area around Santa Cruz. Lotsa redwoods, lotsa logging including Shays. Hamman now runs Yesteryear Depot http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/maspage.htm.
The narrow gauge South Pacific Coast was built over the Santa Cruz Mountains between San Jose and Santa Cruz. It was later taken over by SP and standard gauged in the early 1900's. There was a reasonable sized yard in Santa Cruz as well as engine facilitities (at least until 1942). There was an attempt to connect Santa Cruz with SF with a railroad (the Ocean Shore) up the coast roughly paralleling what is now California Rte 1. It failed in large part because of the 1906 earthquake. One of the Ocean Shore's stations still exists in Pacifica as a restaurant (Vallemar Station).
Up the coast from Santa cruz was the large cement plant at Davenport (now shut down from what I hear). Up until about the mid 1930's there were quite a few passenger trains. Check Bob Bowdidge's site. Bob models the Vasona branch (the San Jose side) ca. 1932 and has lots of good info. http://homepage.mac.com/rbowdidge/railroad/index.html
If you're a member of the Yahoo LDSIG group, check out Larry Bergen's musings about the Santa Cruz branch contains quite a bit of info, too. It's in the files section.
Andre
Let me chime in with Andre's suggestion, which as usual, is excellent. The railroading activity around Santa Cruz when SP standard-gauged the old SPC between Los Gatos (near San Jose) and Santa Cruz was pretty close to first class. SP even installed semaphore signals between Los Gatos and Santa Cruz over the mountains and for a time ran a section of their San Francisco extension of the "Sunset Limited" through the area.
You'd have bridges galore, a long tunnel, a really WINDING track through the spectacular San Lorenzo Gorge, giant Redwoods, Also, you could do it with 4-6-0's and 2-8-0's, since the largest power that SP could manage through the cureatures was an occasional 2-8-2. And between Santa Cruz south to Watsonville, the line traveled along the Pacific Ocean and dipped into the Coast Range. The route from Watsonville to Santa Cruz still sees a weekly train, and tourist trains still travel up the San Lorenzo Canyon to Felton.
There was lumber, cement, produce from the seacoast farms--and Santa Cruz, as Andre says, had a pretty substantial yard. You can still see a lot of where it used to be.
In fact, there is a movement afoot to restore passenger service from Gilroy to Santa Cruz a-la CALTRANS, right now. It's still a viable route (even if the original SPC line from Los Gatos to near Scotts Valley has been long abandoned).
Worth looking into.
Andre, Tom, sounds like a great idea. And I could go up to Gilroy for a garlic turn that grosses everyone out..
I lived in Los Gatos a couple years a while back (though not the turn of the century.) I could have a couple stone cats. About 10 years ago I was along Hwy 17 on business, Yes, I could make due with Santa Cruz.
Gotta find some Sanborn access.
Okay, a new one on me.
In 1905 the SP had a siding to a laundry. There was room for 3-4 box cars. What would a laundry receive by train? What would they ship? Dirty and clean laundry? Soap?
Thanks Andre for the info.