One Horse Town

[jrbarney]

John,
The Grandt Line HO loco is pictured at their Web site. Here's the link:
http://www.grandtline.com/model_railroad/rolling_stock_and_locos.htm
Good luck.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[lupo]

Hi John,

MDC does one, several roads,RTR or kit, powered and unpowered also as track cleaner,
it is in the Walthers catalogue;







Grandt Line Products Inc also has a model, no pics available

hope it helps

[Anonymous]

Hi
just a bit of an update and a question
rolling stock now consists of 7 freight cars including 2 cabooses
and 2 passanger cars.
1 2-4-0 locomotive
all old timers does any one know of a manufacturer of a box cab diesle locomotive..
A mock up of the saloon has been made.
Layout planning propper has started I want to get the most I can out of a 6' x 4' space I can any sugestions in that regard would be helpfull.
regards John

[vsmith]

Hoorah!

Carl Arendt's micro layouts website is alive again! its new address is:

http://carendt.us

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

The problem is that Porter 0-4-0's and 0-4-2's were typically NOT used for trips out into the kind of country he wants to model(it sounds like a "high desert" environment is what John Busby is shooting for, rather than northwestern or far-west or western plains type terrain.) Heck, they normally weren't used for things like passenger runs at all--they were mostly industrial locomotives, for use on logging lines, industrial facilities, dockyards, etcetra. It also means that the size of his buildings will double, eating up quite a bit of that teeny 4x6 foot space.

Actually, on quite a few narrow guage lines the little porters were used for everything from frieght to passenger runs, and they quite often did run out into the landscape, the Arizona Copper Company line was a good example of a 20 inch gauge using 0-4-0 and 0-4-4 Portersrunning out in the open desert, it was featured in the last issue of Finescale Railroader. the Finger Lakes RR in Minnesota used 0-4-0 Porters to haul passenger cars between two ferry terminals and resorts. There are many examples out there.

At 4 x 6 an On30 would be good for an detail-packed "one horse town" layout, I guess it depends on what your ultimate goal is...if its the town itself, then On30 would allow for superdetailing the buildings and interiors, If its the town as object in the vast landscape sort of idea, then HO would be better. I guess I'm just not quite picturing John's overall vision yet.

If its HO John check out those Woodland Scenics buildings. I used several on my old micro 12" x 24" HOn30 layout before the Northridge Quake did a major remodeling of it. BTW it was called the Furnace Creek, Ketchum, & Union Pacific or the FCK UP!

[leighant]

The part I want to show you in this picture is rather blurry.

http:/www.railimages.com/albums/kennethanthony/aab.jpg

In the foreground left is a tiny station, model of an actual prototype station on the Santa Fe at Oil City Junction, California. Depot was about 12 x 15 feet. Excuse me, I should say IS instead of "was". To my knowledge, the station building still exists at the orange Empire railroad museum in Perris, California.

Scale drawings of the station were printed in Santa Fe Modeler, July-August 1980 p.18
and reprinted in Santa Fe Modeler, September-October 1986 p.15

Kenneth L. Anthony, Santa Vaca & Santa Fe Rwy.

[FJ and G]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried modeling a one-horse trolley. Would be a challenge to get the horse's legs moving anatomically correctly.

dave vergun

[Jetrock]

The problem is that Porter 0-4-0's and 0-4-2's were typically NOT used for trips out into the kind of country he wants to model(it sounds like a "high desert" environment is what John Busby is shooting for, rather than northwestern or far-west or western plains type terrain.) Heck, they normally weren't used for things like passenger runs at all--they were mostly industrial locomotives, for use on logging lines, industrial facilities, dockyards, etcetra. It also means that the size of his buildings will double, eating up quite a bit of that teeny 4x6 foot space.

[vsmith]

Might I make a suggestion?

If you use On30, you can still use the HO track but you can up the scale to O and use B'mann's cool little Porter 0-4-0's and 0-4-2's or the cool little gas/mechanical engine. They also have some neat ore cars and some cool passenger cars. You can up the level of detail at that scale if thats your thing.

If you want to stay at HO then I suggest Woodland Scenics really cool series of white metal buildings most are under 2 inches square and are well detailed and look really good in a "small town" setting.

[Jetrock]

The red caboose was a pretty ubiquitous thing--obviously they came in more colors than just red, but they were used all over and if any one color predominated it was red.

If you can find cars that have railroad names on them, you can always paint over them--if you're willing to scratchbuild structures, a little painting of cars shouldn't be too challenging.

[Anonymous]

Hi
We have a bit of progress.
The first train is now just a case of wait for it too arrive it wil be the previously mentioned forur pack and a Riverossi 2-4-0.
The timber is laying on the floor out the way to see what it does over the next couple of weeks in the way of twisting or bowing.
Found a salloon in HO on the fidlers greeen paper model site this has been put to gether to get an idea of what it looks like while I wait for propper modeling wood too arrive the paper one will be a temptate to build one out of wood. being a small structuer should not take long to build just forever to get the detail bits.
Have Emailed Klamback books to see what they have to match my requirements.
all the book titles have changed from what I remember and there is a lot more of them.
The search is on for a small mine head frame to give the town a reason to be there.
and printed out all of your comments for future referance.
greatfull thanks to all
Will check back from time to time to find out if anything new and helpfull as been added to the coments. will try to keep you posted as to how i am going but have no idea what to do about pictures??
regards John

[Anonymous]

Try ebay

[Anonymous]

Hi jetrock
Thanks I wasn't sure if cars did exchange given the size of the US.
I ordered a four pack yesterday of oldtime freight cars which included the red Caboose
that every body I know thinks all US roads have.
Was really P###### at Roundhouse they Had a set of 2 G&D passanger cars that
I could have ordered only on line if I wanted the delivery sent too other than my post office box in other words LOST I figured those two sets would do for the rolling stock requirements untill I got a good grip on what I was up too
Just have to sort a locomotive now and two passanger cars that don't have real ralroad names on them
regards John

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi jetrock
The aim at this point in time is a credable believable looks right ect freelance line.
if i get a result I am hapy with the line will move from the house. to a propper railway
building area built for the line and it will then be extended a lttle bit at a time so that at no time is there 0
train operating posabilaties.
The reason the G&D cars where of interest I could go and buy a train in a box
passanger and freight with matching name throughout Saw a nice set of 4 round house freight cars
with caboose but could not find matching passanger cars or vice versa
regards John
regards John

If you're hoping to create a believable freelance line, take a look for sets other than the comparatively rare G&D set. There were quite a few lines that ran in the American West that are readily available--Central Pacific, Southern Pacific, D&RGW, AT&SF, etcetera--that should be easy to find in model form.

Also, it is fairly common practice for American railroads to exchange freight cars between lines--so a freight train would, most likely, NOT contain cars all from one railroad.

[randybc2003]

"Building the Jerome & Southwestern - A Railroad With Personality" - by John Olson, pub. by Kalmbach. Out of print I think.
I do recomend you wire Kalmbach & order back issues of Model Railroader as follows:
"Building the Cactus Valley RR": Dec. '98, Jan. '99, and Feb. '99 - by Dave Frarey
Similar school of thought and scenery. I am using these scenery techniques.
"Building the HO Rock Ridge Central": Jan. '02, Feb. '02, & Mar. '02.
Similar scenic tech., and MR staff worked for a Old-West theme.

You have access to this forum on their website - so go to their "store".

I'd go ahead and put indians in the hills, but I personaly know some. They prefer a peace-loving existance. Excelent w/ livestock. Traditionaly, excelent w/ horses. Some historical photos show them riding on top of the boxcars of the Central Pacific. This came about from a RoW agreement.

I think Roundhouse (MDC) still has cars in the G&D livery. These are premium priced because G&D is trademarked from J. Allen's estate, and the procedes are used to fuel scolarships or something - photography I think. I have a 'reefer in thesse marks, & like it.

Pasenger Cars: Walthers Catalog for Con-Cor, (small, truss rod cars), Roundhouse/MDC in both "Overton" (30') and in 50'. I have a baggage, combine, sleeper, coach, and office in the latter. (coach & office still not assembled!) Kits are very simple and always cause comment at public meets. Riverossi also has groups of Old-timer stock - a packaged set of a baggage, combine, and coach.

For loco, while the little Mogul (2-6-0) and Consolidation (2-8-0) from MDC are distinctly "old timer", I still recomend some of the "American Standard" (4-4-0) as we call them here in US of A (Canada too, I think) I heartly recomend the Riverossi machines. Bachman has a couple too. (you can judge the quality of the latter for yourself - I don't run them.)

I think Life-Like has taken over the old Mantua line. Their little truss-rod Boxcar matches up just fine in this era too. IHC has a line of flats, tanks, box, etc "old-Timer" that is mostly MoW, but can be re-painted for road assignment. MEHANO too has some old-time stuff. Check MR's big advertisements.

I like my IHC watertank, but Walthers has an assembled watertank if you like one pre-built. Atlas watertank is easy, as is the Life-like one. (or is it Model Power?) - Check the Walthers Catalog. Rember to put a pumphouse (possibly w/ windmill) nearby. DosHermanos on the J & S has such an instalation!

Signal on the little station is a "train order board". As the train approached, it would whistle. If the opperator had orders, he would leave it at "stop". The crew would come in and pick them up. If not, he would raise the board to "clear", and the crew would just rumble on by. (later, "yellow" was added, and the crew might pick them up "on the fly"

Must go.
Randybc2003

[Anonymous]

Hi jetrock
The aim at this point in time is a credable believable looks right ect freelance line.
if i get a result I am hapy with the line will move from the house. to a propper railway
building area built for the line and it will then be extended a lttle bit at a time so that at no time is there 0
train operating posabilaties.
The reason the G&D cars where of interest I could go and buy a train in a box
passanger and freight with matching name throughout Saw a nice set of 4 round house freight cars
with caboose but could not find matching passanger cars or vice versa
regards John
regards John

[Anonymous]

J

[Anonymous]

John:

I had two ideas which might help you. The first is a website to a California ghost town: www.thelizards.com/bodie/ the site has a dozen or so elevation photos of period buildings as well as a plat map and short history. Also there is a link to other ghost towns around the Southwest of the US. Second, I suggest you join and post questions on the Yahoo group "Earlyrail", it is dedicated to prototype information and modeling of US railroads prior to the turn of the 20th Century. I've found it useful and think you will as well.

Good Luck

Randy


Randy

[Jetrock]

Well, considering that it's right by the stationmaster's cupola, it seems an ideal place for a manually-operated train-order signal.

Re: the "Wild West": I'd definitely suggest doing some research--it shouldn't be too hard to do. I assume you want SOME connection to a prototype or otherwise believable line. Putting Indian tribes on a layout with a 19th Century theme wouldn't be unheard of--I'm sure it has been done before. Perhaps the way to think of it is this: If you were modeling a 19th Century Australian railroad in the outback, how feasible/realistic would a tribe of Aborigines be? A lot depends on location--if it's a Southwest theme, and the time period from the 1860's-1890's, then a few Indians on warhorses in full traditional garb certainly wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

One thing you might consider adding to your town is a defunct industry--many ghost towns became ghost towns after the economic reason for the town's existence went away or tapped out. This could be a mine (gold, silver, guano, etc.) or the remains of a logging town gone bankrupt, or other speculator's wild dream gone awry.

Of course, plenty of small towns existed for not much more reason than there was a railroad nearby--but they would at least have a team track!

The G&D rolling stock isn't impossible to find but it is kind of rare. Roundhouse makes short Overton passenger cars that are still in production and would do nicely.

A 2-6-0, especially an older-styled one, would work fine on a 4x6--18" radius curves are enough for such an engine, and a small one would even handle 15", I reckon. You might consider a 4-4-0, as that type is the sort of engine most associated with 19th century early Old West railroading, and would handle 15" curves with aplomb. It would also be more appropriate than an 0-4-0 or 0-6-0, as those were used as yard switchers (shunters) rather than road engines, and it would be unlikely to be seen out on the prairie at remote stations...

[Anonymous]

Hi all
A couple of last questions before heading up to the hardware shop for 2" x 2" Aluminium angle and 2'' x 1" timber
there are three books I want to get by Klambach
one on building the Jerome and South Western, one on small layouts and the HO beginers guide
Can any one give me the correct titles for the books.
If I am going to build a US layout better look at the way things are done in the US and learn the correct terms
It has become obviouse in this exchange of Ideas that often we are speaking different railway languages too
express some of the same ideas? (Err I think)
and a beginers book never goes amiss.
Given that it will be a Wild West layout would I be going over the bounds of sanity and reason,
too put injuns in them thar hills or is that best left out on grounds of too toy like and to much risk of
geting it wrong.
Thanks for all the links and thoughts having had a bit of a look round I wonder
why other than for personal pleasure why i would need too scratch build the prices or fairly
resonable for the small buildings I am looking for love the woodland scenics station "sorry" depot.
But what is the signal for?? seems odd right in the middle rather than one end.or the other.
regards John

[BNSFNUT]

I lived in a one horse town but the horse died.[:D]
There are many small towns that had rail service that fit the one horse town mold. In farm country many towns had few comercial buildings. Some times just the General Store and farm supply, but shipped enough product to get a station and a siding.
Some towns came into being just because the railroad placed a siding there and installed an operator. I have seen towns that you wonder why they exist at all. So just pick a era and start looking for stuctures tha will fit your idea of a one horse town and add a sideing and a combination passenger freight station and you should get the effect you want.

[Anonymous]

Hi all
Oops that got away before I had finished.
I live in Kalgoorlie West Australia
The wild west is what I had in mind as it is such a complete change from anything I have done before.
I have bits of the series of articals on the Jerome and South Western RR when I saw that WOW!! thats
what I need to do some thing completly different no or little green the wild west thats it no more
English country sides and towns just dust tumble weeds.
The Roundhouse loco sounds too big for 6X4?? but thier short wagons and coaches seem ideal
saw a couple of references to G&D sets of cars are they still avalable or where they a limited edition thing.
I have heard of the Late John Allen and His G&D RR
regards John

[Anonymous]

Hi
As far as scratch building goes I am the worst stuck I can be I dont have any plans to work from
I have done a little with varying sucsess before and a little bashing of kits.
So I dont have a layout like so many others about the place.
Some one mentioned a water tower I had not forgoten that that was going to iether a kit or RTR just so the first structure went in quick.

[randybc2003]

Can only second the reference to Walthers. They have a website. Small stations are available in some of the lower-cost craftsman kits. Alpine, Classic Minitures, etc. I have CM's "red light" district, and though "craftsman", they are very easy to construct, and can give you good training on "scratchbuilding". For locomotives and cars, check out Riversosi's little wood-burning Americans. I have several, and you CAN install decoders into them. Dont's forget a water tower. I have IHC's RR water tank, and also Life-like's homestead group. even the Atlas shanty can be painted and weatherd to simulate the "boondocks". Walthers index even lists several liverly stables and stockpens, barns, etc. good luck with your little "old west" town!
Photos in my family album indicates to me that the J. Wane sets wern't too far off. Just rember: dirt, mud, and dust.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi all
Local hobby shop does 603km away count as local ? most of my buying is done by phone
I tried producing drawings from pictures a couple of times oh boy did I get it wrong..
Not being famiier with the real wild west not the John Wayne version makes things a bit awkward.
could hit the town library next weekend with a bit of luck
and see what I can turn up.
Not really sure what I am looking for have the funny feeling those old westerns
romanticised things just a bit .
note too self remember small and don't want those kits
The big problem will I think be finding small enough structures on which to base the models.
apart from the whole layout is only going to be 6X4 total with not a great deal of room for town I really
think small buildings will help the not quite made it feel I want to achieve.

How stuck are you on scratchbuilding? Woodland Scenics does a whole line of cast-metal and wood structures that are absolutely ideal for what you're planning--an assortment of tiny false-front stores that are less than 3x3 or 2x2 inches in size. Check them out at http://www.woodlandscenics.com/ and look under Figures & Scenes/Scenic Details. They are generally pretty cheap ($10-15 each, some kits have two buildings), nicely detailed, and just the right size to make a town of a dozen or so buildings without taking up much real estate on a 4x6 layout.

Take a look at your local library and see if they have any books on model railroading, or real railroading--you might find books with plans for model railroad structures there. Other places to look would be older books about architecture--rather than trying to make plans from photos, use actual building plans! If there are any such buildings near where you live, take a look at them (bring a camera and a notebook) to get ideas on how to build them.

[orsonroy]

Most "one horse towns" were in the middle of nowhere, and not necessarily just out west. Here in Illinois, the middle part of the state was full of nothing towns with rail service. Here's what most of them looked like:

Mainline running through the middle of town. In fact, the town exists because the rails were laid first, and the town grew up around it (mostly because the line was close to someone's house, who decided to exploit the closeness of the trains by starting up a local general store).

Passing siding also running through town. As long as we need a passing siding, why not put it where a town is? It will also double as a runaround track for local switching moves.

Depot near the middle of the passing track, on the mainline side of the right of way. Nothing fancy, just a 9'x18' wood building without much in the way of decorative trim. Most railroads had "standard plans" to cover these basic depots (remember, STATION is a place, DEPOT is a building)

In the midwest, one grain elevator. Generally wood originally, and covered with corrugated tin sometime around WWI. The grain elevator track (through track usually, not a stub) would double as a team track, which would service the local coal dealer, lumberyard, or anyone else who wanted freight delivered to town. Generally, NO ramp or crane.

Bigger one horse towns would have stock pens, big enough to handle 2-3 36' stock cars.

Yet bigger one horse towns would have a second elevator, either on the same track as the first, or on their own through track somewhere in town.

Even if a town did have all these elements (main, passing, depot, two elevator tracks, one team track, and a stock track) it could have a permanent population of no more than 100 people or so. 100 people generally works out to 10-15 houses within a mile or so of the depot. I drive through three such towns every day on my way to work!

[Anonymous]

John...

603 km to the nearest shop...? Where are you located?!?

Here are a couple of links to a lot of plans and drawings of small buildings that might help you out...
http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/abeng/plans/
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/hhhtml/hhhome.html

Hope that helps with your project.

I would second that recommendation for Roundhouse engines. I am overhauling a 2-6-0, and the kit came with a bunch of extra parts so you can make it anything from a ~1880s to 1930s loco.


Andrew

[Anonymous]

Hi all
Local hobby shop does 603km away count as local ? most of my buying is done by phone
I tried producing drawings from pictures a couple of times oh boy did I get it wrong..
Not being famiier with the real wild west not the John Wayne version makes things a bit awkward.
could hit the town library next weekend with a bit of luck
and see what I can turn up.
Not really sure what I am looking for have the funny feeling those old westerns
romanticised things just a bit .
note too self remember small and don't want those kits
The big problem will I think be finding small enough structures on which to base the models.
apart from the whole layout is only going to be 6X4 total with not a great deal of room for town I really
think small buildings will help the not quite made it feel I want to achieve.
I hope at least some of this drivle has some coherent thoughts in it.
that can turn into reality.
any way must stop thinking out loud so to speak
regards John

[jrbarney]

Al Armitage's plan books are still available. Precision Scale Company carries them. Although Precision Scale doesn't have a Web site, the plan books are listed on page 998 of the Walther's 2004 HO catalogue or they can be ordered directly from Precision. Although they would not be scratch built, another possibility might be the Reese Street Row House kit and No Problem Joe's from Grandt Line Products:
http://www.grandtline.com
And, possibly, you might find something you like in the Cut and Assemble card stock HO models offered by
Dover Publications:
http://store.doverpublications.com
You could use them as plans, or assemble them and see if they fit the space you have available prior to scratch building.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543