SILVER STREAK!!!

[Anonymous]

How about buying a Life Like P2K HO scale E-6, and kitbashing it into a Burlington E-5? And then, with my plan to model the Q's Hannibal Division, build up a Zephyr-Rocket consist with the E-5s on the point?

The only problem, how similar was the E-6 to the stainless steel fluted E-5?

[AggroJones]

I may be mistaken, but wasn't a Burlington E5 just announced by BLI?

[Anonymous]

No, I think you mean the E3 and E6.

[AggroJones]

You're right, I just thought an E5 was in that group of announcments.

E3, E5, E6 all look the same to me.

[M636C]

A major problem with conversion of anE3/E6 to an E5 is that the side panels are entirely different, not just the fluting (which is obvious), but to line up the fluting and more importantly, a letterboard, with the passenger cars, the side windows are smaller and mounted lower in the side. The nose itself is pretty much the same, but has strapping over the joints in the stainless steel. The big problem with exposed stainless is that you can't cover up the irregularities with body filler and paint, as they do on all the other units.

So assuming the cab, nose and roof are ok, and you can live with the back end (which is probably fairly similar), you have the choice of a completely new accurate side panel, or adding fluting to the existing side and putting up with a model without a letterboard. It might be possible to overlay a letterboard over the side windows, but it would be difficult to match the window frames.

Were you planning to add the truck skirts as well?

Peter

[CBQ_Guy]

A few years back when the first run of E-6's were released, there was a guy planning to sell some sort of resin conversion kit to make them into Burlington E-5's. You gave him your email address and he would notify you when they were available. I don't remember his name, the business' name, or the web site now, but I never did hear from him. A few months ago I came across the sight and the price for the conversion kit was so high, I decided it was too much for me. I'm thinking the kit was well over $100 bucks! And he still didn't have them available.

[Anonymous]

I wouln't try this 'till I had good experience with kitbashing and scratchbuilding. I'd try to make the model as accurate as possible.

What if Highliners made an E-unit body shell, E1 thru E6, like the F unit shell is for F2 thru F9, and Athearn made all of the E unit roadnames like the two companies did with the F units?

That would help a lot.

[Anonymous]

It would, but they don't, so....................

[M636C]

cjm89

It is more complicated for the E-units. The first three designs with 201A engines, EA/B for the B&O, E1 for the ATSF and E2 for the joint "City" trains were different from the later E3 to E6 which had 567 engines. Even the nose design was different, the E and E1 having flush headlights and the E2 having a different nose shape altogether. The E to E2 had two big radiator air intakes on the side, E3 to E6 had three small intakes.

It would be like trying to make an F unit model that could be either an FT or an F9 which would be almost impossible (even if the wheelbase wasn't different).

Peter

[Anonymous]

Well.. my knowledge of E-units is pretty sparse anyway, But if I could buy a cheap passenger car, cut out the fluting, and cut out enough of the E unit shell to glue the fluting in place, then give me some time to think how in the heck am I goin' to scratchbuild the skirting on the trucks, think it would look ok?

[M636C]

cjm89,

The first thing to do is to get some good photos of an E5, and drawings if there are any available. EMD builder's photos appear on page 119 of Lou Marre's "The First Fifty Years", and a good B unit photo appears on page 74 of the "Model Railroader Cyclopedia Volume 2". Somewhere in the back of my mind I think there may have been a drawing in MRC at some time.

The problem with just adding the fluting as you describe is that the road name "Burlington" only appears on the letterboard, and looking at your signature block, I suspect you'd like it to say "Burlington".

If you are going to cut up a stainless steel car, try to get one that has reasonably good Budd fluting. I don't think Athearn cars are very accurate in that respect, but if you could get an old Rivarossi car, that might be better. Look at prototype photos, and check the model against them. The shape of fluting on Pullman-Standard cars was different, so watch out for models with smooth roofs, usually a sign of a P-S car.

So try to get a Budd car with narrow corrugations on the roof.

Now here is my suggestion that might make it all too hard. Try to get vertical measurements of the side panels of an E5, and check against the car you are cutting up. If you manage to get yourself a fairly long baggage car to cut up, you might consider trying to replace the whole side up as far as the radiator vents, including the letterboard from the baggage car. It might be neccessary to cut the letterboard away from the window panel and reduce the height there to match the E unit dimensions.

Anyway, that would give you a letterboard, and you could use standard passenger car decals for the road name.

If that sounds ridiculous, you could put the lettering at the top of the panel between the two twin square windows, but it would have to be a bit smaller than scale to fit.

But with the roof of the car you've just cut the fluting (or sides) from, you could cut sections of the sharply curved section of roof (just above the sides), about the length of each truck. Cut to size and turned upside down, you would have your truck sheathing!

On the prototype, they used stainless steel of the same pattern as car roofs were made from. You should check the photos, because there were plain sections at each end of the truck. The sheathing covered the brake gear, and to fit it to the model, you'd have to cut the brake gear off the truck. I don't know if the skirts were on the truck or the body on the prototype, but if you want to use curves, it should be on the truck in the model.

Have you stopped laughing yet?

Peter

[Anonymous]

I would also like to see a RTR E5 - they are very beautiful locos. From the photos I have to hand (the book's called E-units: Electro-motive's classic streamliners) the E was apparently based on an E3 or E6, but with stainless-steel sides and fluting. It also seems to have a couple of grilles aither side of the nose headlight. Conversion from an E6 would be a very involved project.

On the subject of early (ish) E-units, would anyone else like to see a Proto 1k E3? I suggest Proto 1k as it would be a reasonably-priced loco with decent detailing, paint, and running qualities. Also Lifelike seem to release more unusual locos (Erie-Builts, DL109s, etc) as Proto 1k - presumably they feel that the lower prices will encourage buyers who might not otherwise have bought these locos? Just my theory! (Still looking for a C&NW DL109 and the "other" C&NW Erie-Built to match the one I have!)...

[M636C]

Railroading_Brit,

Look around, you might find a P2K E3 at a good price. I could get you one for less than I paid for my ATSF DL109 and Erie Builts. They are $(Aust) 99 here = GBP 40!

You must be able to do better by mail ex USA!

The grilles on an E5 were just painted on, as a "reminder" of the real ones on the Pioneer Zephyr. The black stripes were to represent the cab windows on a early 9900 series unit. Both the "grilles" and the "windows" changed to red paint after WWII.

The E5 was really based on the E3, as was the E4 (an E3 with retractable nose doors, only for Seaboard). There wasn't much difference in an E6 except in detail in components, or even an E7, except for the shape of the nose. The really big change came with the E8, which was basically only the same size and shape as an E7. Virtually every detail was different, radiators, fans, even the way the engines were installed.

Read between the lines in what I said to cjm89! Was I recommending that he try it!

I was listing what had to be done. If he felt he could, it's up to him.

I'd probably buy a CB&Q E7 and forget about it!

My DL109 runs just as well as my (City of LA) E6, by the way, but I think it's heavier.

Peter

[jrbarney]

Although I'm not a diesel fan, here's what a quick search at the Index of Magazines turned up, using the keyword search term "E5". Maybe you'll find the needed dimensions in one of the cited articles:

Burlington EMD E-5 A&B-1939, Railroad Model Craftsman, February 1964, page 34. ( CB&Q, DIESEL, DRAWING, E5, "KAMM, AL JR.", ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, PROTOTYPE, RMC )

Electro-Motive Model E-5 2000 hp. - 1940, Loco 1: The Diesel, page 68.
( DIESEL, DRAWING, E5, EMD, ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, PROTOTYPE )

Forget the gods of old, Trains, October 1978, page 58, a fast ride behind Burlington E5s. ( CB&Q, E5, FRONTISPIECE, "MORGAN, DAVID P.", TRN )

Electro-Motive 2000-hp. passenger cab unit, models E3, E4, and E6, Model Railroader Cyclopedia - Volume 2: Diesel Locomotives, page 70. ( ATSF, B&O, C&NW, CB&Q, DIESEL, DRAWING, E-UNIT, E3, E4, E5, E6, EMD, FEC, IC, RI, SAL, SR, UP, ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, PROTOTYPE )

Performance Test Report #43: Oriental Ltd. EMD E5A, Model Railroading, January/February 1984, page 6. ( DIESEL, E5, EMD, "HIGGINS, ROBERT", ORIENTAL, PERFORMANCE, TEST, ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, MRG )

Athearn Power for E5, E6, E7 and E8 Diesels, Model Railroading, February 1987, page 21. ( ATHEARN, DIESEL, E-UNIT, E5, E6, E7, E8, EMD, "HIGGINS, ROBERT", ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, MRG )

EMC's Early Passenger Diesels Part 2, Diesel Era, July/August 2000, page 9, Part 1, Nov/Dec 1999, covered boxcabs, custom-built units. ( ACL, ATSF, B&O, E3, E5, EMC, "ERA STAFF, DIESEL", PHOTO, ROSTER, DE )

EMC's early passenger diesels, part 3, Diesel Era, November/December 2000, page 28, photos,rosters C&NW E2s, E3s, E6s and CB&Q E5s ( CB&Q, DIESEL, E-UNIT, E3, E5, E6, EMC, EMD, ROSTER, "STAFF, DE", ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, DE )

From Streamliner to Streamlined Diesel, E Units: Electro-Motive's Classic Streamliners, page 4. ( DIESEL, E-UNIT, E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6, E7, E8, E9, EA, EMD, "WILSON, JEFF", ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, PROTOTYPE )

E Units, Model by Model, E Units: Electro-Motive's Classic Streamliners, page 10. ( ATSF, B&O, C&NW, CB&Q, DIESEL, E-UNIT, E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6, E7, E8, E9, EA, EMD, FEC, MP, RI, SP, UP, "WILSON, JEFF", ENGINE, LOCOMOTIVE, PROTOTYPE )

E-Units at Work, E Units: Electro-Motive's Classic Streamliners, page 19. ( ACL, ATSF, B&M, B&O, BAR, C&EI, C&NW, C&O, CB&Q, COFG, CPR, DIESEL, DL&W, E-UNIT, E1, E3, E5, E6, E7, E8, E9, EA, EMD, ERIE, FEC, GM&O, GN, IC, KCS, L&N, MEC, MILW, MKT, MP, NYC, PM, PRR, RF&P, RI, SAL, SLSF, SP, SP&S, SR, T&P, UP, WAB, "WILSON, JEFF", PROTOTYPE )

Sam Houston Zephyr, Mainline Modeler, November 2003, page 24, drawings of CB&Q 9909. ( CB&Q, DRAWING, E5, "FLEMING, JON H.", FW&D, "MUFF, NICHOLAS S.", ZEPHYR, PROTOTYPE, HO, MM )

Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

Give me a few years of kitbashing and styrene modeling experience, then I'll give it a try!

It would make me mad if right about the time I would think I could undertake the project, BLI or Life-Like Proto series would release an E-5.