Hi from Belgium,
I am modeling in Nscale and have used mostly Peco code 55 for the first part of my layout and I didn't have a lot of problems. Simple modifications make them DCC friendly.
Because I live in Europe ME Nscale turnouts are rare, nearly impossible to find and even to import from USA. But by chance I have two of them. They look great but are expensive and as say difficult to find.
Because of of not aviable in the Peco line I bought a few curved shinohara turnouts years ago by Fulgurex and even they are made in code 70 they are very reliable. I just cut off the bronze contacts because of short when moving with Tortoise motors.
Because of big extension coming and the research of better looking turnouts, I now use Fastrack jigs and tools, to build my own turnouts.
I can only say one thing, I use code 55 jigs and the turnouts are looking fantastic and are not very difficult to build.
Best of all and it's may be the more important thing, they have running quality high above all the turnouts you can find on the market.
So for the rest of my layout only Fastrack turnouts will take place on the plywood with ME flextrack.
Good choice.
Marc
My layout at www.Nscale.org Personnal album, letter "M", Marc Magnus album
Fastrack at www.handlaidtrack.com
Paul3 cwclark,What we do at our club is that we don't use rail joiners on the two frog rails of any Shinohara switch. We power each rail past the switch in the yard with feeder wires dropped to the bus. We drop one wire from the frog rails down to the internal contacts in the Tortoise, then route the power from the bus through the Tortoise as well. This powers the entire frog and point area, and we've had no problems at all with this method. Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
cwclark,What we do at our club is that we don't use rail joiners on the two frog rails of any Shinohara switch. We power each rail past the switch in the yard with feeder wires dropped to the bus. We drop one wire from the frog rails down to the internal contacts in the Tortoise, then route the power from the bus through the Tortoise as well. This powers the entire frog and point area, and we've had no problems at all with this method.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
The way your club wires the turnout is exactly how I wired my shinohara turnouts using tortoise machine contacts and the inside rails past the frog insulated. Still there were numerous shorts when the train went thru them. I think the problem, as you stated, was a wheel touching the opposite point rail. The shinohara turnouts I use were the curved variety and the wheel in the curve would inevitably touch the point rail too many times as it went thru the turnout for my liking. That is why i'm getting rid of the shinohara turnouts. One slightly out of gauge wheel in the curve of the curved turnout is all it takes to make the short. The train could go thru the turnout 5 times without incident and then on the 6th time..POW!..there goes the short, the train stops, ect...
I replaced the shinohara turnouts with # 6 Atlas turnouts after rearranging the cork roadbed a bit and there have been no more problems. It's just one of those things...if it's not 100% reliable, then i don't want it on my layout. There is nothing more embarrassing as having a group of people in the layout room and a train stops in the middle of a runby because something as trivial as a wheel touching the opposite point rail makes a short. That could mark a guy for life during the home layout tour season....chuck
cwclark,At my club, we use Shinohara switches, and we deliberately remove those bronze point wipers. We find that they tend to short out when using a Tortoise machine to change the polarity of the frog unless the Tortoise is aligned perfectly. Since that doesn't always happen, we remove the wipers as a matter of course.
As for being DCC friendly, that they are not (tho' the Walthers new Code 83 line is DCC friendly). We found that as long as you stick with #8's or short wheelbase locos, you're normally fine. However, that has nothing to do with your issue about power to the rails past the frog. "DCC friendly" only refers to the points of a switch always being the same polarity as the adjacent stock rail. On Shinohara switches, since they have a metal throwbar, both points must change polarity every time they switch because they are the same polarity at all times. What can happen is when thrown, the back of a metal wheel rolling on the stock rail of the open point can contact the open point (which is the opposite polarity) causing a split second short circuit. This is normally not a problem with DC as their circuits are robust and don't need super-fast breakers to protect delicate circuits. DCC, OTOH, typically has breakers that trip in a 1/4 second or faster, and that makes the trains stop and jerk every time they make contact at the points.
What we do at our club is that we don't use rail joiners on the two frog rails of any Shinohara switch. We power each rail past the switch in the yard with feeder wires dropped to the bus. We drop one wire from the frog rails down to the internal contacts in the Tortoise, then route the power from the bus through the Tortoise as well. This powers the entire frog and point area, and we've had no problems at all with this method.
BTW, I'd rather have a short circuit than having my train run through the points reveresed against me. That will most likely lead to derailments and possibly cars hitting the floor. Shorts are much better to deal with than that.
I use Atlas and Shinohara since everything on my layout is code 100 rail. (I can't say anything pro or con about ME turnouts because i've never experienced the use of them.) I have 6 Shinohara turnouts on my layout and I do not like them at all. They would be ok except for that very thin copper tab at the point rails that make contact with the outer rails. Every one of them have either bent askew so that they won't make electrical contact anymore or have just plain old, broken off. I'm in the process of replacing all the Shinohara turnouts because in my opinion, they are horrible turnouts.
Another thing about the Shinohara turnouts is that they are not DCC "friendly." (In other words, they are select control turnouts in which you have to power the inside rails past the frog for correct electrical pick-up when the points are thrown which means they have to have a relay or a toggle switch to work correctly) If the points are thrown in the wrong direction against the travel of the train, you guessed it, the entire power district will short out stopping all train traffic in the power district.
I use mostly Atlas turnouts. Yes, they aren't the most protoype turnout on the market but their reliability is good. Atlas has also come out with a newer style turnout that does away with the big rivets that made them so "unprototype." The new style atlas custom line turnout is a lot more appeasing to the eyes and looks a lot more prototype and I've been using them as replacements when old turnouts go south on me.
My friend and fellow modeler, knowcents, uses mostly Pecos turnouts on his layout and they are pretty much top of the line as far as turnouts go. I'm impressed with them but what stops me from using them is as a lot of modelers, the price. They are more pricey than the Atlas turnouts so until I get rich from an inhieritence from a long lost uncle or win the lottery, it looks like the new style Atlas turnouts will be the major brand on my layout....chuck
Ian,
as the Peco 83s are nicely built, they are very expensive compared to the ME switches or the Walthers/Shinohara ones aswell.
John
What about Peco code 83? They do 5's, 6's, 8's and a curved 7.
Ian
Tom, I didn't explain myself very well. The Fasttracks jigs look awesome. But if I were to buy turnouts from someone who simply made turnouts using the Fasttracks jigs, I'd really have no idea what I was getting. The jigs have a great reputation, but they're only as good as the person using them. Just because person A made some turnouts with them doesn't mean person B's turnouts will be the same. So I wouldn't buy them sight unseen on Ebay - but that's just me.
If I went into the kitchen and cooked something with my wife's "equipment", believe me, you wouldn't want to eat it just because I used her stove/oven.
If I buy from one of the standard companies, I know what I'm getting myself into. If I didn't have the time constraints I have, I would very possibly get some Fasttracks jigs myself, and go that route, as you can clearly make great turnouts with them.
SBCAtstage:I appreciate the suggestion, but buying turnouts from someone who uses jigs doesn't offer much in the way of reliability, etc. You may have very well found a good source, but with the short time on my hands, I want to know what I'm getting. (If you buy Atlas, Shinohara, ME, you know what you're getting).Also, to me, the point of using fixtures like Fasttracks is to make the finest turnouts you can, and save money. I wouldn't be interested in actually paying more for them.
I appreciate the suggestion, but buying turnouts from someone who uses jigs doesn't offer much in the way of reliability, etc. You may have very well found a good source, but with the short time on my hands, I want to know what I'm getting. (If you buy Atlas, Shinohara, ME, you know what you're getting).
Also, to me, the point of using fixtures like Fasttracks is to make the finest turnouts you can, and save money. I wouldn't be interested in actually paying more for them.
Doesn't offer much in the way of reliability? I guess I don't quite follow you, SBCA.
Actually, you'll get a MUCH better looking and operationally smooth turnout from Fast Tracks than you will a commercial turnout. I paid $25 a turnout for my FT #4.5s & #5s. And a #6, #8 or #10 were the exact same price. That's comparable or better than the cost of a Peco #6. I also had them within a week.
For me, there's just no comparison to the other turnouts.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The only issue that I have run into with the ME turnouts is the flangeway on the frogs are a little shallow on the code 70 turnouts. I don't know if you plan on using any code 70, so it may not be a concern for you, but even RP25 wheelsets will ride up a little (not enough to derail). I know this is an easy fix, but I just haven't gotten around to it.
As mentioned several times before, they are great looking turnouts, and I like the jumpers they use as opposed to the flat metal jumpers on the Walthers/Shin DCC Friendly turnouts that can pop off. I have decided that once I settle down and build a "real" layout, I am going all ME (if they are still around).
I am appreciating the responses very much.
I will be starting with DC (have an MRC power pack), but will no doubt be converting to DCC shortly. It's a 12ft x 2ft layout (with a return loop), so it will likely be one giant "block".
tstage:
Atlantic Central:
I should have mentioned the #8 Atlas turnout I bought does not have the blackened frog (as you mentioned). I appreciate your information as to the improvements of the more recent turnouts.
I've also noticed a lot of gorgeous layouts in MR mag that use Atlas turnouts. They seem like the Chevy of turnouts (yes, I drive a Chevy - I'm all about practicality when it comes to vehicles!).
The availability of them is EXTREMELY attractive.
trainnut1250:
I dug your pics! Thanks for the practical tips for the ME's also.
At the moment, I'm leaning toward the ME's. But frankly, they all sound great.
Of all of the pre-fab switices out there, I like ME a lot. I have around 40 of them on the layout. They look great and operate very well. I have tried all of the major brands out there and like ME for easy, great looking turnouts. Some suggestions from my experience:
Get the DCC friendly version (more robust wiring)
Watch for plastic flash where the frog has been pressed into the ties.
If the loco hiccups when going through the frog (rare but can happen), check the flangeway width on the guardrails.
I remove the overspring and use a stall motor to throw mine.
I solder a feeder to the bottom of the frog when the turnout is on the bench (I run live frogs) and I solder the point rails to the closure rails for better electrical contact (do this when the points are lined straight or you will kink them).
Check my link in the signature for close upo photos of ME switches at my rail images pages (pg 3 or 4)
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
SCBA,
I am using ME exclusively on my new layout. On my old Code 100 layout I was using Atlas flex track and Peco switches. My new one, I use code 83 and 70 ME flex track and #6 switches, 64 switches to be exact. I do use 6 of the Walthers/Shinohara code 83 curved and 1 double-slip switch because ME dosn't make them. I do not have any ploblems at all. I like the springs contacts in the ME switches and for the Shinohara ones, I used caboose throws. I do use DCC and love the whole operation. I've been running this system for about 6 mths now and have not encountered any ploblems thus far. I run very modern equipement too.
Good luck,
OK,
You asked so here is a vote for Atlas code 83 Custom Line. The frogs should be gently filed on top to remove the blackening (the #8's I have are not blackened, only the #4's and #6's), than after painting, weathering, ballasting they look good to me. In fact, all commercial turnouts look about the same to me after well done painting and ballasting.
They are DCC friendly if you use or are thinking of ever using DCC. The metal frogs are unpowered but easily powered in you desire it.
The power feed thru design is great for DCC or DC as I do not like to rely on switch points for power routing.
All the "old" features people complained about have been fixed, rivets gone, points better made, drawbar is now reverseable.
They have a good variety of items, not as good as Walthers, but if you factor in the "backorder list/time" at Walthers is their product really "available".
Atlas is VERY available and VERY competitively priced. I use them as do a number of other modelers I know, all have had good experiances. Why spend more?
In my view, its either Atlas or build your own.
Sheldon
SBCA,In my experience, ME track products look the best out of all the commercial track products out there. However, they are also the most fragile and the most limited (only #6's). I have only experimented with these, and have not used them on an actual layout.
Walthers/Shinohara track looks almost as good as ME, and there are a lot of track products available for it, ranging from 9.5 degree diamonds to curved switches to #8 double slips. It is also fairly robust (more so than ME), and the flex track is much easier to bend than with ME. I like the switches, but I have had a couple of the DCC Friendly ones pop the point/throw bar solder joint on me. It was a simple fix (just had to touch it with the iron and a little solder), but they aren't as robust as the old non-DCC Friendly ones. But then you don't have to cut them or isolate them, so I guess that's the trade off. Walthers track is what my club uses, and we've been using their stuff for 10 years now. We've put down hundreds of feet of flex track and around a hundred switches or so. We like them.
Atlas is what I use on my home layout. They are the least expensive, and the easiest to put down.
If you don't mind "live" frogs, how 'bout considering Fast Tracks turnouts? They come in large variety of sizes from #4 - #12s. I purchased mine off eBay already soldered, assembled, painted, and the frog wire soldered on for not much more than the cost of a Peco turnout. They both look and operate terrific. The ones I have are also made with ME Code 83 rail.
This is really a matter of choice. You have to factor in what size rail and what turnout configurations you need. The big issues with the M-E turnouts are:
Only #6 turnouts seem to be available
Availability(even worse that Walthers-Shinohara)
The first bullet is the show stopper for me. Also, that neat 'spring locking' points system does have electrical issues over time. Atlas & Walthers-Shinohara have a good selection of turnouts/crossings, and with Peco now importing their 'North Amarican' line of code 83 - there is a good selection of configurations and availability.
If M-E would expand their line and increase production - They might have a bigger market share....
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
A key question in your decision may be: will I be running DC or DCC?
The ME turnouts are more "DCC friendly". I operate DC and have been very satisfied with Shinohara for years. I bought a couple of the ME turnouts when I couldn't find Shinohara, but didn't like the thought of attaching extra electrical feeds. Shinohara just sends the power down the track selected and that works for me. The tide is turning toward DCC, so I recognize that my view may now be in the minority.
Bill
At the start, I bought one ME turnout, and later found my train store out of ME's, so I bought a Walthers-Shinohara... both seemed to do the job nicely, but I just liked the positive "snap" to the ME turnout when thrown and closed. Since then, I have gone entirely ME turnout's (12 of them...) and all ME flextrack. I also prefer the appearance of the ME ties over the other's I've seen.
That probably doesn't give you much more to go on... but I am entirely happy with my choice, and have not had one problem to date with track ot turnouts.
Good luck... Bob/Iron Goat
The clock is ticking. There is another baby on the way. The layout is getting built now (deadlines are always the best motivator, aren't they?).
I've experimented with handlaying turnouts the past few years. But I'm running short on time, and the benchwork is up, and nearly ready for track. I WILL have a layout up and running before the new baby arrives.
I'm pretty certain I prefer the look of Micro Engineering turnouts, but both ME and Shinohara look pretty nice. The one bummer about the ME turnouts is there are only #6's, and I might want a couple #8's.
So let's hear some pro's and cons if you've got them on ME's vs. Shinohara (and / or Walthers-Shinohara). (The whole "Shinhohara does code 70 and 100, but Walthers-Shinohara does code 83) is sort of annoying! Heck, even throw in some Atlas comments if you've got them. (I'm leaning away from Atlas, simply due to the looks of the blackened frogs).
I have one each Atlas (#8), Shinohara (#5), and ME (#6).
To my delight, they are all in spec with the NMRA track guage. Check gauge and flangeways are within NMRA spec on all 3 (which is contrary to what I've heard people say - maybe I just got lucky?)
I will have less than 10 turnouts, so it's not a huge purchase either way, but I just wanted to arm myself with as much data as possible before making my purchase (likely tomorrow).
Thanks in advance!