If you go to You Tube type in my name or Bill Fagan the photographer and some video's of my Buffalo Line will show up. You can see a number of my steel mill structures in the video. The largest is a rolling mill thats eight feet long. I sheathe the gatorfoam with .040 styrene scribed to look like steel siding. I've been using adhesive caulk recently to attach the styrene. I used to use a water based contact cement but have found that it starts to fail after 10 years or so. The Gatorfoam I used was the 3/16'' kraft colored version. I have some building over 20 years old with no issues. I've also built retaining walls and bridge abutments using Gatorfoam. -- Ken McCorry
KemacPrr i've been using gatorfoam for about 14 years. Bought a case of 3/16'' kraft color at American cardboard in Philadelphia Pa. way back when for about $15 a sheet Case was 15 sheets and ove the years I have used all but one half of one sheet. I've used it for large steel mill structures, some girder bridge cores and as a base for a medium size town. Best glue to use is hot glue. It will take paint fine as long as you don't use a solvent based paint that will contact the foam interior. I have tried foamcore but it is more likely to warp than gatorfoam. --------- Ken McCorry
i've been using gatorfoam for about 14 years. Bought a case of 3/16'' kraft color at American cardboard in Philadelphia Pa. way back when for about $15 a sheet Case was 15 sheets and ove the years I have used all but one half of one sheet. I've used it for large steel mill structures, some girder bridge cores and as a base for a medium size town. Best glue to use is hot glue. It will take paint fine as long as you don't use a solvent based paint that will contact the foam interior. I have tried foamcore but it is more likely to warp than gatorfoam. --------- Ken McCorry
I have a couple of steel mill structures I'd like to consider mounting as well.
Any photos of yours??
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
dsnyder44 Guys... Foamcore and Gator board are the same family of products. There is another product that has plastic coating but is less ridgid than either of the others. Soft to the touch. For a great source of material, look for a sign supply company and ask if they have any seconds. I bought a 4'x8' sheet of the double black Gator board for about $35 at MidWest Printing. (They have a number of locations - including Denver. That is a whole lot cheaper than the various hobby outlets. I am going to lay my whole yard on it and cut out sections for my buildings. I can then mount my buildings on the bench and put them right back into the cut out section. If there is not a supply company locally then make friends with sign shops and they can either order it for you or give/sell you scraps of that and another useful product, Sintra. Sintra is solid plastic product that makes good bases for your smaller buildings. You can get better utility out of foam core for a base if you spray it with a flat paint before mounting it. This protects it from the water in the scenery materials. I love the tan Krylon Camoflage Ultra Flats as it is very close to a lot of Colorado ground colors and missed scenery applications are not as noticable.
Guys... Foamcore and Gator board are the same family of products. There is another product that has plastic coating but is less ridgid than either of the others. Soft to the touch.
For a great source of material, look for a sign supply company and ask if they have any seconds. I bought a 4'x8' sheet of the double black Gator board for about $35 at MidWest Printing. (They have a number of locations - including Denver. That is a whole lot cheaper than the various hobby outlets. I am going to lay my whole yard on it and cut out sections for my buildings. I can then mount my buildings on the bench and put them right back into the cut out section. If there is not a supply company locally then make friends with sign shops and they can either order it for you or give/sell you scraps of that and another useful product, Sintra. Sintra is solid plastic product that makes good bases for your smaller buildings.
You can get better utility out of foam core for a base if you spray it with a flat paint before mounting it. This protects it from the water in the scenery materials. I love the tan Krylon Camoflage Ultra Flats as it is very close to a lot of Colorado ground colors and missed scenery applications are not as noticable.
I know this is an older subject thread, but I thought I would give it a try.Did you ever post any more on this subject of 'bases' for your structures,....and/or photos ??
I'm looking into this idea now,...to make some of my structures 'removable' for various reasons.
spe3376 maxmanMy opinion is that the foam board is just too flimsy. I would not even use it for a structure base. In my Solid Mechanics Laboratory class when I was in college, we had a project where we had to design a beam using nothing more than 1/4" foam core board and Elmer's white glue. The beams were then rigged with strain gages and subject to an increasing compressive load at the center, while being simply supported at both ends. Most of these beams withstood anywhere between 50 - 200 lbs before failing by breaking apart.
maxmanMy opinion is that the foam board is just too flimsy. I would not even use it for a structure base.
In my Solid Mechanics Laboratory class when I was in college, we had a project where we had to design a beam using nothing more than 1/4" foam core board and Elmer's white glue. The beams were then rigged with strain gages and subject to an increasing compressive load at the center, while being simply supported at both ends. Most of these beams withstood anywhere between 50 - 200 lbs before failing by breaking apart.
My comment concerning "flimsy" did not necessarily have anything to do with the structural strength. Certainly anything that is adequately braced will be "strong", to a certain degree. What I was referring to was the surface of the two products. The surface of the foamcore is some sort of paper. If you try to cut it with wood working tools the surface is likely to tear. On the other hand, I have run gator board through my bandsaw to cut it to width and there was no surface tearing. In addition, if you press down on the surface of the foamcore with your thumb, you're likely to leave a depression. This is less likely with the gator board. To me, there is more rigidity to the gator board. If you grab the end of a length of gator board and wave it around, it will flex a lot less than a similar length of foamcore. I think that this would be important in the making of structure walls. Finally, the gator board is water resistant. I believe that some have used it for large scale outdoor railroad structures (the seams do have to be sealed). The foamcore is not. Yes, the average HO structure builder is not going to make an outdoor structure. But basements are not necessarily the most dry of environments. Plus overhead pipe leaks are not uncommon...it happened to me.
My modeling time is limited. So if I'm going to spend a lot of effort to scratchbuild a large structure it behooves me to use the best material I can afford for that particular application. For the couple of dollars extra the gator board costs, I'd rather use that than the foam core. If someone wants to use the cheaper product and then spend a lot of time bracing it, or worrying about the effects of humidity, that's their call.
Thanks camaro, I will try those suggestions.
Dave
Dave,
I would think that gatorfoam would be named the same in Canada. I would check with business that sell artist's or architectural supplies. We have it at a local wall paper and paint store that sells artist's oil paints, canvasses and brushes and they have it there. You might try Michael's if one is close by. Anything similar to Dick Blick would have it or could order it.
www.dickblick.com
Larry
I have used what I think is foam core for mock ups. It seem to dent if I get careless. Gator board sounds stronger. Does anyone know where to get it in Canada and what its called up here?
I agree. I been looking for some alternate ways to build a structure and this all gives me a lot to use.
I copied a few photos of the various types of board that are available from Dick Blick. I haven't included the various colored Foam Core types. Stratocore would be typical of election sigh material.
Foam Core
Gator Board
Strato Core
Folks:
I just wanted to say that there's some fantastic modelwork popping up in this thread!
You have a good point foam core has it's limits or necessity so to speak I guess when comparing kits to kit bashing or scratch building. It's a question of weather it's really worth doing or is it over kill..
I had never thought about buying any of this stuff. I went to where my brother works and they had skids of it sitting around. 2'x6'x 1/8" sheets. I got about 10 sheets for free and I think it's great! This is the plastic impregnated stuff. I used it to make a new floor for my Atlas round house and I was really happy with the results. No warping problems at all. After seeing what the rest of you are doing, I'll have to try some back ground buildings with it.
I think I would build it first and then check for the necessity for bracing and strength. Windows and so forth are already cut into the Walthers structure. You are going to have to work around what is already in place. Just my two cents.
Ok I'm going to toss out anohter question regarding foam core. That clinic definetly reinforced my belief in using foam core and it's strength virtues. Do you think it may be advisable to use it on a kit structure? I have the Walthers Tannnery complex kit slated to go n my new layout. It's not the largest of structures but some are decent sized building. The over all strengh of a finished Walthers kit has always been somethin gthat has bothered me. I can't build one withoutblocking all the inside corners and putting a variety of braces inside. So at the very least I am contimplating using foam core for the bracing but what about building a sub strcuture with in reason for the entire building?
Very good clinic. Check out Lance Mindheim's "Voodoo & Palmettos" Florida layout. Lance incorporates several cutting edge media to enhance his "Down Town Spur" section including photographic structural details and anchoring concrete for making loading docks.
www.lancemindheim.com
steinjrit also contains a link to Ken Spranza's online clinic on foamcore/veneer building.
Stein:
Thanks for posting that link. The following link will take anyone interested directly to the Spranza clinic: http://www.horailroad.com/clinic2/cl2_034.htm
There is a lot of interesting information there, including how he uses plastic milk bottle material for translucent windows. I noticed that he seems to have a preference for the type of base material he uses, which he calls black on black foam core.
Regards
I used Walthers brick sheets on my power plant. I think it would even be easier on a structure that wasn't as tall. I was using nearly a sheet and a half to cover the front facing. I completely covered the building after the windows were cut into the foamcore and then went back and cut out the brick sheets covering the window openings.
For a backdrop warehouse front, I think foamcore or gatorboard would work well especially if you don't have a ton of small windows to cut in. For the power plant I made a template and cut each one out after outling on the foam core. I have had considerable sucess with my warehouses with painting them with a rattle can textured paint (Home Depot) and then airbrushing them with whatever color. Since I am now modeling the warehouse districts around Miami, FL, most are white or tan and smooth sided. After seeing your warehouse fronts, I am going to reinvestigate using foamcore for some of my structures. Everything pictured below has been made with .040 sheet plastic. I find this easier for cutting in smaller windows.
In this thread there are some nice buildings with foamcore walls for strength, and a thin veneer of styrene for looks: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/140225/1562764.aspx - it also contains a link to Ken Spranza's online clinic on foamcore/veneer building.
Smile, Stein
Camaro and Modelmaker those are some awesome structures as well as some of the other examples shown. Thanks for the replies and your opinions. As I mentioned it's obviously nothing new as a whole lot of peopel are using it and have been for quite some time I guess.
I always enjoy trying new methods of doing something and hearing what others have to say. Hey that how you teach an old dog new tricks right.
I like to use foamcore to quickly build the substructure of something. It is then easy to laminate on whatever siding you want to get the completed project.
Here is something I posted a few weeks ago.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
The only issue I have with foamcore is that it is thick, which may make it unacceptable with applications where you need true wall thickness. In O-scale, 1/4" foam core is a wall a foot thick.
Here is a recent project of mine. The shell is made from 1/4" foamcore, assembled with a silicon based craft glue and pinned at the corners with ribbed panneling nails. The "floor" helps keep it square and true.
The veneer siding was attached with regular contact cement.
I built the window bay out of model airplane plywood for a thinner profile.
Here it is with doors, windows and interior partitions added.
And here it is finished.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Foam core is definitely not an inferior product The results you get from any product depends on how you use it. Yeah,sure foam core is flimsier than gator board, but that just means you need to brace it more. For the cost difference I'll use foamcore most of the time. And it does take paint very well. You do have to putty and sand the edges, but you have to do that with gator board as well. I've been using foam core for years for many different uses, including buildings. As someone else said, archetects use it almost exclusively for achetechtural models, do think if it was so inferior they would continue to use it to show their clients?
My new engine house based on the Saratoga Springs building, (and not yet finished), has outer wings made of foamcore with the center section made of two pikestuff engine terminals:
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
I used Foam core for the scratch built power plant below. The support structure within the powerplanthad to be reinforce with thick plastic strips to straighten out the foamcore. The unfortunate aspect with Foam core is its ability to warp. Gatorboard is much better suited to scratch building since it is plastic impregnated cardboard. The plastic basically seals the cardboard making it more moisture resistant. As a result, it is slightly more expensive but less prone to warping. I have found both Gatorboard and foamboard at stores that sell artist supplies (with the exception of our local Michel's). Dick Blick sells both and are fair on their pricing.
I've used it as a mock up structure with CAD generated drawings of the real building
glued to the sides as with this mock up of the C&O station at Prince WVA
But i much prefer to use wood or plastic for a finished building
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
The basic oxygen furnace building (BOF) 16 X 9 X12, in my steel mill has foam core walls with .Evergreen .040 sheet metal siding glued on. It is shaped after the BOF at the US Steel Edgar Thompson works near Pittsburgh, Pa. It is the blue building behind the mill in the foreground. I chose it because of its odd shape.
I an experimenting with foam core on several buildings right now. The buildings are nothing elaborate.
One will be a warehouse type building, about 30 inches long by 17 1/2 inches wide and 10 inches tall. There will be an office attached to the one end. There will be 2 rail car doors and 4 truck dock doors.
The other building is a 4 stall engine house, measues 24 inches deep, 22 inches wide and 8 inches tall.
Both buildings will use a plastic corrugated product (used for signs) for the flat roofs. They will both have pilasters columns for support.
Instead of paint, I am using brick paper to cover the sides of the buildings. The warehouse has consumed 13 1/2 sheets of brick paper (copy paper).
There is a company called Evans Design that offers software packages that include various types of siding (brick, stone,wood, metal), roofing material, including all types of doors and windows. They have been at some of the larger train shows. I am not affiliated in any way with this company. If you go to their website they offer a free building for you to try. I built that building using illustration board and covered it with the printed materials that I printed onto regular copy paper.
My buildings are O scale.