How to establish a crew?

[robengland]

That works for Big_boy_4005 but not for me :-) I'll go to the NZMRG

[Anonymous]

Almost all the guys I hang with are NMRA (life members when they were giving them away); I'm not because the Canadian price is just too bizarre - $85/year - so in ten years I could own a very nice brass engine, or have lots of Atlas and Kato engines. That's one reason there is a new Canadian MR Association. Having said that, I'm willing to bet that some in the NMRA would be willing to help - by definition, they're already keen.

[robengland]

I like the analogy of a yacht. I crewed on them a bit. The captain owns the yacht and the crew volunteers for the fun of it (on the small recreational ones I'm thinking of). If the yacht is to go anywhere there is only one person calling the shots. And there are clear rules.

In terms of recruiting, I am thinking of several approaches I will try:
- networking - asking around
- join clubs
- advertise in the local MR press (club mags, New Zealand MR Guild etc...)

Later on, once there IS a working South Pacific Lines, then I bet finding operating crew will be easier: enraptured visitors, a few open days ....

[Big_Boy_4005]

This is a very interesting topic guys. Actually I have been on crews before, both for operating and construction. But I have gone where I don't think anyone here has gone and operated a train layout as a business.

The construction crew was PAID!!! It was made up of mostly friends, and a few people that some of them knew. Working under presure of deadline was taxing, and I did not have the luxury of being able to do much of the work. I had to be the FOREMAN as this was MY business.

11 years later, my situation is much different, but once again I find myself in need of a crew. This time the traditional type. Part of my problem in contacting some of the people from the past, is the fact that they have lost the incentive, or simply moved on in life and are no longer interested in building a railroad. I think the past experience has tainted the old crew and it is time to start fresh, even if that means no experience.

My problem is that I don't know what rocks to look under to find new bodies. Perhaps posting notices in the local hobby stores would work. There are elements of crews that are very much like clubs, but as has already been pointed out, this situation is not group ownership, nor group decision.

I am a firm believer in the story of "The Little Red Hen". Remember the one who wanted help to bake some bread?? The reward comes at the end of the process, though there is also a different reward during the construction.

I will be happy to teach my crew and give them experience during the construction. Then when it is time to operate, the fun really begins.

If anyone lives in the Twin Cities or western Wisconsin and is interested in my project, please drop me an email, and I can tell you the details of this monster layout. One word of warning, I do 3 rail O scale, but when you hear the project, I suspect you will forget that part and want to join in anyway.[swg]

[Anonymous]

Why not start with a few rules, then go from there. Most of your rules wouldn't apply to the groups I go to. Tools are rarely lent (trying to remember when the last time was), but for example, one chap helped me make two cuts in some legs for the layout (these two cuts sound easy, but in the end we spent over an hour at his house doing it - I swept the mess up).

And for me, I avoid yard work when possible. My favourite is running passenger trains which everyone knows. If I've had a long run switching, which has at times taken up to two hours on one train, I usually ask to run a passenger train the next time out. I also have a warm spot for RDC's. I know some like the yard because of "prestige." Personally while they are busy switching, I'm out there enjoying the visuals of the trains running, talking to the other guys and eating more than the switcher guys....lol.

[robengland]

yeah it is a tough call between keeping it loose 'cos we are all friends and making all expectations clear from the start. You can see that in the range of responses.

I'm a nice guy in the flesh - really :-) I don't want to be overbearing, but there are a range of people out there too, and some of them are more casual about other people's property, for example. I don't want some guy to think it is OK to use all my styrene and to borrow my airbrush for a month.

Likewise some folk just want to have a good old chinwag and show each other trains. My local MRC is just like that. Very little ever gets done. let's be clear about the distinction between crew night and someone dropping round for a beer. Crew night is a "working bee", when we get stuff done, or it's a formal operating session when we run a railroad. I'm with Tony Koester's hard line on this (MR "Trains of Thought" columnist). When we finish at ten, or any other time they drop round, we can shoot the breeze and watch videos. Crew night we all put in.

I think it is a pretty equal deal: I get some company and help, and they get to work on and operate a railroad without sinking their own ten grand or negotiating right of way from the wife. No-one is doing anyone favours either way

Finally I'm keen to involve my son and his mates as they get older. Some formal rules and certifications won't hurt them at all :-)

I am revising some bits though. I think everyone's points are good about it being a small and close-knit group, so some things should manage themselves, with less rules than a big club. eg the seniority thing.

thanks everyone for the thoughts. Any more?
cheers
Rob

[Anonymous]

I dunno. Your Crew Rules seem to be overbearing to me. Aren't these guys supposed to be your friends? How come no rules re "idle chatter" or anything that isn't productive? The rules seem to me to be more of a job description for a paid position rather than some friends volunteering their personal free time to make YOUR railroad.

I'd say lighten up a bit.

I've been a part of a local operating group on a friend's layout for about 15 years now. When the owner needs help, those who can do help. I've made hardshell scenery, planted and painted trees, painted backdrops, scratchbuilt structures, etc. because I can and want to help. I think if my friend had rules such as yours it would be a turnoff to me.

The layout owner and several others were to go to a distant city some time ago to visit and operate on layouts there. We were provided with some rules for visiting operators - no talking during the sessions (takes up valuable time), no breaks until the end of the 4 hour session (sounds too much like work to me), and no taking of photos (the photos might appear in print, and the layout owners would not be compensated).

My desire to visit these layouts was to see what they were doing, maybe operate some trains, and to be able to take some snapshots that I could later refer to or share with other friends when telling them of the layouts.

Needless to say I did not participate in the trip. I imagine that group may have had rules like yours too.

This is a hobby. It is not work. Be too structured and rigid in your rules and see how long others continue to participate.

Good luck anyway!

Bob Boudreau
Canada

[Anonymous]

Try to involve guys who also have their own layout so you can "make the rounds" and every Friday (or whatever) is not at your house.

Also be sure to have a place that the guys can hang out when not working on the road. A VCR, TV, and a bunch of train movies goes a long way to entertaining the off-duty crowd.

As for letting them do what they want, and rewarding the "guy that puts in the most" - I would say that you are the god of your little railroad universe, so you hand out the jobs. And mix it up so everyone gets to try everything at least once or twice.

By the way - I love the "beer and supper on you" idea - I'll be right over... [;)]

Andrew

[robengland]

I've seen a good system (forget where) that cut everyone back to 20% of their points every year, so people didn't pull miles out in front of others.

And hopefully I can foster a culture where people give up their privileges in order to mentor a newbie.

But when everyone wants to be yardmaster, I still figure give the gig to the guy who puts in most....

[Fergmiester]

Regarding 13. I'm not the biggest fan of seniority as it promotes a form of nepitism that I find kind of "Old Boy Network". I prefer mentoring and time sharing. I think it would be in your best interest to alot special treatment or extended privaliges to those who put in extra time or extra effort into your project.

Overall I think you have an excellent set of standards to run by. And if I was to have operating seesions then this would be an excellent form to use.

[robengland]

...oh and in the introduction to the Crew Handbook I say:

We will try to keep things in perspective. Model railroading is all about playing with trains, for the fun of it. Nevertheless SPL is a serious undertaking, into which I am investing over ten thousand dollars and five years of my spare time. I hope you will take it seriously too.

It is my learning layout. There will be a SPL 2 later. So we are all learning. But we try to do our learning somewhere else and then apply our skills on the SPL. The SPL is not a club layout where we try things out for the first time, except where we designate stuff as specifically an experiment or training example.

The crew is built on trust. If I write down stuff here it is so that there are no misunderstandings. If I write down records of what we do, it is a reflection on nobody but me and my appalling memory.

So you give me some of your time and effort, and I’ll give you camaraderie, fun, and the opportunity to work and play on a serious model railroad.

Welcome aboard

[robengland]

Great feedback folks, thanks very much, especially Rick (thoughtful as usual). At the risk of a long-winded post, here's what i have come up with so far:

CREW RULES
If some of this seems a bit blunt, sorry, but it is better to make this stuff clear and avoid any future misunderstandings.

1 We do it my way. My money, my house, my vision. That said, I intend to be consultative, but if we can’t all agree, and a call needs to be made, it’s mine.
2 Safety first. Leave mains voltages to me. Use eye protection. Power and paint tools are for approved users only. Drink in moderation.
3 Everything is at your own risk.
4 Learning is a responsibility: I need advice and discussion. Preferably know more than me about MR – at least aim to know as much. Expect to be learning all the time (and not just at crew nights).
5 Discuss with me before inviting anyone. I reserve the right to limit numbers (probably four to six: aiming for two or three attending each night plus me) and to approve crew. In general, crew nights are not for visitors, unless there as honorary operating crew. There isn’t room. Arrange another time for them to come see SPL.
6 Crew nights are not for young kids, sorry (hmm just watch me keeping Jack out). We will have kids’ sessions. Bring them then. Older kids can join the crew, learn, get certified….
7 Breakages happen but not often if you respect the gear. Declare it and I’ll wear it. Hiding or ignoring damage is unforgivable.
8 I seldom lend anything (tools, materials, books). Anything removed offsite (eg to work on) is agreed by me and goes in a register. Anything else is theft.
9 I own everything built with my materials and/or in my workshops. I know you are investing heaps of time and effort, but I still think this is fair. More precisely, I have first claim on everything. There will be times when I “shed” unwanted gear: high value items may be sold, but most will go to crew if you want it.
10 We will happily host your stuff on SPL too (structures, rolling stock, locos), where it meets SPL standards. Just make sure I write down it is yours
11 I provide materials, tools, food and drink. All other expenses are your own (eg other modelling, travel, subscriptions…)
12 There will be work nights and (later) operating nights (we won’t mix activity). Pitch in or ship out: this may be play but there isn’t room for loafers. It isn’t fair on the rest of the crew. We need to fini***he job before we relax – there will be time for both. We can arrange bull sessions or magazine readings – just not on crew night.
13 Crew pick their desired activities and tasks: I get to approve. Where several people want something, seniority counts.
14 Own up if you don’t feel proficient at a task yet. We’ will work out a learning program but please don’t cut your teeth on the SPL. There will be certification programs for some activities before I let you loose on the SPL, especially for kids.
15 The crew resolves any disputes by “jury” (unless I disagree with the resolution – see rule 1 )
16 Rude behaviour, abuse and agression are of course unacceptable and will probably result in you being asked to leave the crew. Keep your cool and appeal to the crew.
17 Clowning around and practical jokes are funny unless they impact safety, are overdone, or diminish other crew members' enjoyment.
18 I notify crew nights in advance. If you say you’ll be there, be there.
19 We start 8:00 sharp. House opens 7:30. Please stay until at least 10:00.
20 I need to work next day. Activity ends about 10:00 or 10:30. Lights out 11:00 (unless you and I both feel like a late one)

CREW RIGHTS
1 All crew must have fun – it’s compulsory [:)]
2 All crew deserve respect: opinions will be solicited and heard, opportunities shared, courtesy shown.
3 Seniority counts: the more you put in (time and effort), the more you can expect back. (This will be especially important when the operating jobs and work jobs are handed out: everyone wants to be the yardmaster or to install sound FX). We will have a seniority system.
4 You don’t do what you don’t want to – this is play.
5 Resting isn’t loafing (at first [:)]).
6 Partners and kids have priority for joining the crew.
7 We will arrange occasional activities involving partners and kids too (SPL kid’s session, excursions, dinners…).
8 You are welcome to bring visitors to see SPL. Please do it outside crew nights, and by prior arrangement with me
9 Beers and supper are on me.

Thoughts?
Rob

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

Just make sure the layout ends up the way you want it.

If it's your house and your cash, invite them over to work and play away on it, but don't let it get to the point where you have a RR and it doesn't look anything like the way you want it.

Offering free food and drinks is a good way to keep the modelers coming back too [;)]

My [2c]

I'd go for free food, but drink, not a straight piece of track to be found. As a navigator we call these Rhumb lines of the worst kind.

[Budliner]

I have a nice crop growing all want to run the cab when this thing gets rolling but all I can think of is the little trolly to let the run (it only moves like a snail)
dont think apple juice and chips will make that one fly...

the midland in the closet HO

[Anonymous]

I go to three friends homes to help them build their layout. Here is my experience:

1) If you get a good group together, ideally you'd like more individuals than can run it, as invariably one or two might be away.

2) With a gathering of 3 or more excluding your self, there is likely to be one "odd" individual or more (excluding yourself). But this odd person is likely to make some invaluable contributions. At one friends home, there is an odd electronics person and an odd engineering type, but each adds to the value of the layout.

3) Improve your ambassadorial skills. Everyone has opinions on layouts, whether it is their own or yours. Some of their opinions will be bang on, some will be excellent and would be the way to go if your layout was going to withstand a direct nuclear detonation or was to appear in "Electronics's Geeky Newsletter." Sometimes the best isn't the best due to time, money and skill level. Other times opinions will miss the mark altogether. You need to be able to have a firm skill in saying "no" gently but firmly without ruffling feathers.

4) Have no rules except rule number one, and in case rule number one doesn't work refer them to rule number two. Rule Number one: This is my layout and I will do what I want. Rule Number Two: In cases of conflict resolution, see rule number one. I would post these two rules prominently.

5) The group you gather are probably going to become life long friends, plan on it.

6) You will get your layout built faster and probably in a better fashion rather than had you done it all yourself.

7) You will share much laughter and a few tears with them as you and they travel through life's journey.

8) Have faith in their ability unless proven otherwise. But don't be afraid to train them either, some are willing to serve an "apprenticeship" to gain skills for building their layout. This is legitimate as they are willing to provide free slave labour.

9) Have some refreshments and fluids. Also right from the beginning, let them know they are expected to arrive with something to eat like chips, cookies, etc.

10) Accept that not every night is going to be productive, there will be many times when all that gets exercised is the jaw.

11) Be willing to help out on their layout from time to time.

12) You will discover that some will gravitate to certain jobs, allow them to become experts in them. For example, some really enjoy scenicking, others really like the electrical and electronics, yet others really enjoy the benchwork and structure building. Your layout will only be the richer for it.

13) Let them get their kids involved, kids really will respect your property if they know it is important to you. Allow them to run your layout. The "kids" are the guys who are going to fix things under your layout and hard to reach places, when you are too old to do so, so grow a new crop of visitors and helpers.

14) Tell your neighbours that these guys will be coming regularly on "such and such" an nite. This will save phone calls to the police reporting that you have a grow op happening in your home.

15) If you get a group up and running, count your blessings for you will be blessed.

[Anonymous]

Just make sure the layout ends up the way you want it.

If it's your house and your cash, invite them over to work and play away on it, but don't let it get to the point where you have a RR and it doesn't look anything like the way you want it.

Offering free food and drinks is a good way to keep the modelers coming back too [;)]

My [2c]

[robengland]

Here's something I don't see discussed much:

I am starting on a layout, not huge but big enough to amuse three people at an operating session, maybe 4 max. It is designed with operating sessions in mind.

I'm pouring lotsa money into stuff, but I'm time poor. I'd really like to get it up and running withina couple of years not ten [:)]

So I'm developing relationships with likely candidates for a building-and-operating crew.

What makes a good crew?
How to foster and maintain one?
How many rules?
What to provide crew? What to expect from crew?
What to watch out for?

cheers
Rob