and what is the meaning of life, what is pi, and when is your layout completed. All questions for better minds than us....but since it's YOUR world, it's done when you say it's done.....
Good Question. I started my first layout when I was 12, 023 Marks. Put it away and moved at 19, started againg in my 30s with HO, took it down and moved. started again in my 40s ,this time wit N scale as I had little room. You guessed it. Packed it up again. Sold the house and moved, this time I had a little more room but desided to stay with N. Job changed kept me traveling so no time, But, I kept buying N as I found good things and prices. Now to the present. Sold the old place, got married again, (wife luves trains too), bought a ranch built in the 50s whith a BIG basement. Added to the house (& basement ). Been finishing the basement with a 18x40 train room. All most done and new layout starts in August. Will it ever be finished ? I don't think so because the other rooms in the basement look promising for expansion...........if my wife and the good lord lets me. 73 and still building
Srngeorge.
I started my layout sometime around the late 1970's, then lost interest in it for about two years in the early 80's. Started again in the mid to late 80's through the present. In the early 90's I had to have the first of four back operations, then in 1996 a severe heart attack followed by one less severe in 2004. All this time I used my railroad, "The Fallen Flags RR Co." as therapy. My wife says as long as I keep working on it and changing it as I do (at least 8 times over the years) I will never die. Therefore, my layout will never be finished, I want to live forever and play with my trains!!!!!!!!!!!
BRAKIE We are lead to believe by the magazine "experts" that a layout can never be finished..Of course they would say that.Its good for the advertisers that's why you see a lot more infomercial articles then hardcore modeling articles.. Think of it..You rip out a section of track you need to buy more track and ballast--more sales for the advertisers. MR is well known to push the latest gimmicks again good for the advertisers..
We are lead to believe by the magazine "experts" that a layout can never be finished..Of course they would say that.Its good for the advertisers that's why you see a lot more infomercial articles then hardcore modeling articles..
Think of it..You rip out a section of track you need to buy more track and ballast--more sales for the advertisers.
MR is well known to push the latest gimmicks again good for the advertisers..
I can see why we would say that. Considering that WS has their version of 'school glue' to sell and the RTR guys are constantly upgrading the locomotives and etc. And MR comes along and says 'no one is ever finished with---'
The problem here is this comes in a culture that, one could argue, pushes 'consumerism' from the get go. This amounts to "Tin Foil Hat" time. If I find that my skills are getting better all the time does that mean I should just stop?. Period? Because I might fall for a new product and buy it? What if I scratchbuild a loco?---OOPS, I just bought a can motor---OOPS, I just bought some foambricks from a florists shop to powdlerize into ground foam---OOPS---etc.
I think that like a home maintaining a layout is PART of the overall PROCESS of building the layout. I've come across comments from others along the same line--that there is a finished state, fixed and determined----but again, according to who? That's why my question---because 'finished' was a state that meant--no more building up of skills? I'm not so sure---it might've been that in the grand scheme of things the Layout itself was done but the fiddling wasn't-----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Let me jump in here late with my. My layout will be finished when my body temperature equals the train room temperature. I can't imagine ever getting to the point where I couldn't make the layout better. I'll always be tweaking something, or redoing a scene I'm not happy with, or replacing a structure with a better one, etc. Even if I got to the point where I was happy with everything on the layout, somebody might come out with a product that I just had to add. There will always be something to do to make the layout better.
I think a more useful concept would be when is a layout complete? For me, it will be when I can run a train over the entire mainline and not see on inch of bare plywood or foam. When it is fully scenicked. That will be a major milestone for me that seems to be moving target.
I asked a couple of guys at the N Scale club last night this question and the answers wasn't the ones I expected.
Their thoughts in general..
Its up to us to know when to get off the merry go round instead of following what could be ill winds of advice based on a magazines need to please advertisers..
Interesting thoughts from 2 wee scalers..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Interesting debate. I personally define "finished" as the point when I can say that everything is operational and that scenery with a decent level of detail is in place. I can't stand bare plywood, and for years will work like a man possessed to get a layout to that "finished" point. Of course there is always something that can be added, but I don't think that wanting to glue another hen in front of the hen house, or wanting to plant one more tree keeps the layout from being essentially finished. We can tweak forever.
For me, there is an element of "being done with it". I enjoy operating a "finished" layout and watching trains run through reasonably realistic settings, but I admit that after a while I start ruminating on what needs to be changed...when the changes are too radical for the "finished" layout to support, I'm done with it and start planning for the next one. As much as I like operating a "finished" layout, I think I enjoy the process of starting up a new one even more. To each his own. Cheers
My trackwork is long since done. Yes, there was on section that I kept pinned down with paper clips and unballasted, but that was because I knew I'd have to remove track to take out the bridge to put in the water, and so on.
The scenery, though, is another story. However, as I complete each small area, each scene, I like to consider it finished. Sure, I might add a tree six months from now, but fundamentally, that scene is done. It's finished when it's time to move on to the next scene.
The next level will be the layout. The scenery, by my own definition, is almost "finished." I've only got one more "scene" to go. Then, there is one more structure to assemble, paint and detail, plus a second structure that will time-share a corner lot with a more modern movie theatre, giving me an era-appropriate building for either the 1930s or the 1960s. After that, well it's time for extension. The layout is done, and it's time to move on to the next layout.
But, we aren't doing sculpture. We're not doing portraits, or landscapes. We have a hobby which is dynamic, and it's in motion. All the layout's a stage, and the trains are the actors. They arrive from staging, puff and toot their way around the rails, and exit, to be heard no more. There is really no limit to the trains. Old ones can retire, and new ones take their place. Endless ballets can be choreographed, unique, or simply slight variations on a theme.
We can finish a scene, or finish a layout, but we can never be finished with the endless variety of engines and rolling stock that make their homes on our rails.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
hardcoalcase “Finishing a layout” is when all aspects of the layout, (benchwork, track, electrical, scenery, detailing, weathering, operations, etc.) as planned or intended, are for all material purposes, complete. It’s like completing the restoration of a car – there is a generally perceived standard that the restoration is complete when...
---we are at the driver condition--some restore only to that -----
------or you want to enter a concourse-------
My take? I tend towards no 'finish' state because one always sees things that CAN be improved. I make the decision to keep poking at the things I need to change etc...it would be like taking a car from a #2 driver condx to a prime concourse condx car. And then there is the maintaining of said condx
hardcoalcase “Being done with it” is when you stop making progress in finishing it because you’ve (pick as many as apply) 1) lost interest, 2) met your goals, 3) ran out of time/other resources, 4) became distracted, 5) are six feet under...
conditions 3 and 4 are provisional--" Done with it " in those cases does not apply ---Makes for an interesting period of time for perusal of ideas-----
At risk of differing with all you “relativists” out there, I’d have to make a distinction between “finishing a layout”, and “being done with it”.
“Finishing a layout” is when all aspects of the layout, (benchwork, track, electrical, scenery, detailing, weathering, operations, etc.) as planned or intended, are for all material purposes, complete. It’s like completing the restoration of a car – there is a generally perceived standard that the restoration is complete when...
“Being done with it” is when you stop making progress in finishing it because you’ve (pick as many as apply) 1) lost interest, 2) met your goals, 3) ran out of time/other resources, 4) became distracted, 5) are six feet under...
Jim
Autobus Prime Folks: I guess there is a distinction between "ready for prime time" and "with nothing more to do". I think mine will eventually be the former, maybe in a couple of years, but I don't think too many railroads are torn down for the latter. It seems like the more you do, the more you have left to do.
Folks:
I guess there is a distinction between "ready for prime time" and "with nothing more to do". I think mine will eventually be the former, maybe in a couple of years, but I don't think too many railroads are torn down for the latter. It seems like the more you do, the more you have left to do.
There is some logic there base on how much one wants to detail or refine the details on his/her layout but,on the other hand there has to be a stopping point where enough is enough and beyond that-and if I may-one leaves the world of believability and enters a fantasy world..
Even all those supper layout scenes we see in the pages of MR,RMC etc had a stopping point.
Autobus Prime It seems like the more you do, the more you have left to do.
Autobus--you just quoted Fredriksen's Postulate: "Things remaining to be completed will outpace that which is already done."
Another variant was in H.P.Lovecraft's The Case Of Charles Dexter Ward: " Do not call up that which you cannot put back down"
BRAKIE I dunno..Maybe to me its the simple joys of operation instead of building,building,change,change,remodel,tear out,build,remodel etc.
I dunno..Maybe to me its the simple joys of operation instead of building,building,change,change,remodel,tear out,build,remodel etc.
I think that that would be another approach as well--there are a few people around here who put together a 2 level layout -laid tracks and went straight into operations. A few others get into the pure grump mode and complain: That's not MRR'ing!!
Maybe grumble grouching is their form of MRR expression-----
blownout cylinderMidnight Railroader blownout cylinderThe more one developes the art, the more needs to refine what they do--- I would define that as "growth" as it applies to the artist. It's " Growth" that one is after--if one is a --dare we say this--" Serious" modeler.
Midnight Railroader blownout cylinderThe more one developes the art, the more needs to refine what they do--- I would define that as "growth" as it applies to the artist.
blownout cylinderThe more one developes the art, the more needs to refine what they do---
I would define that as "growth" as it applies to the artist.
It's " Growth" that one is after--if one is a --dare we say this--" Serious" modeler.
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.
Paul said: I love the planning and building too much to ever be finished. I keep changing as I build. My current under construction layout will never be finished.
--------------------
I am on the other end..I want to finish a layout so I can enjoy the fruits of my labor and of course all of those wonderful cars and locomotives that I have spent buckets of dollars on..
Of course when to say "enough" is a personal choice but,and if I may,if all I did was build and then tear out a layout,or continue to change it I would take up wood working as a hobby.
markpierceloathar When you tear it down to start on the next one. Loather, you almost took the words out of my mouth. I was just about to say "when one decides to start the next layouot." Mark
loathar When you tear it down to start on the next one.
When you tear it down to start on the next one.
Loather, you almost took the words out of my mouth. I was just about to say "when one decides to start the next layouot."
Mark
That's my definition. I love the planning and building too much to ever be finished. I keep changing as I build. My current under construction layout will never be finished. I am building it to try some things I haven't done before - point to point design with no continuous running, shortline with no big motive power, and DCC. Those experiences will help me plan the "big" one which I'll build in retirement a couple of years and a move from now.
Enjoy
Paul
It's " Growth" that one is after--if one is a --dare we say this--" Serious" modeler. I'm not so fond of things like "finished" because it means an end, or rather, a stop has been put to one's progress. It comes across as a kind of---" Do Not Proceed Beyond This Point". Kind of odd, that.
TMarshI've also noticed a few differing definitions of done in here. Barry? Another point to define for another thread? What is done?
Don't tempt me---I'm already thinking about that!!!
I agree with Larry also. And most posts show he is correct in that it's a modelers goals that define done.Just like any project, many say they are done when they have what they want at the level they want to acheive. I've seen layouts that are done with just track on plywood and some people look at it as a house with no walls. But he is happy with it. Others will never be done. And not just because it takes forever to come up with time/money. I've also noticed a few differing definitions of done in here. Barry? Another point to define for another thread? What is done?
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
My layout will be "finished" when my Wife throws me into the Grave................ Kevin
Hi,
IMHO, a layout is NEVER "finished"! Yes, it may have fine running trains and beautiful structures and scenery, but there is always something that could be added or changed or what have you.
Your question, however, is very subjective, and everyone's opinion is as valid as the next person's.
FWIW,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Midnight Railroader However, in my pursuit of miniature perfection, I frequently return to something I previously created, and finding glaring flaws in it now (or having developed better skills), and thus, feel compelled to do it over, and hopefully, better this time.
However, in my pursuit of miniature perfection, I frequently return to something I previously created, and finding glaring flaws in it now (or having developed better skills), and thus, feel compelled to do it over, and hopefully, better this time.
That is more the artists' edginess, I find. I tend towards this myself--I'm reminded of a "superrealist" painter who would spend upwards of 5 years or more on a painting simply because of that very thing. Another painter, a Netherlandish artist named Vermeer had the same sort of methodology--if you looked at the drapes in his paintings you would see even the weave of the material---
The more one developes the art, the more needs to refine what they do---
blownout cylinderWhere would you place process in your endeavour, then?
The process of creating is much of the point of the hobby, to me, but not all--I like operating as well.
IVRWPlaying with Trains: A Passion Beyond Scale by Sam Posey I always wanted to read it but was afraid that it would be a technical book, or have nothing to do with MRRing. One day, when I had to finish a certain number of reading hours for a summer reading program, I decided to take a chance and read it. It turned out to be the best book I have ever read.
In my own opinion, you need to read more books, then.
I read it, and found to be about half a book's worth of material, at whcih point the rest began to read like filler his editor requested to round out the page count.
"Finished" is a relative term.
But I agree, it is "finished" when you tear it down, or when you die.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.