Can you run 2 ho scale dc locos in tandem and or on the same track is it safe for them and the controller or will it cook something?
Provided that the locomotives are in good working order you can run two on the same track. The problem comes in the fact that speed matching them can be tricky. A faster engine in the rear will try to derail the lead engine, a faster engine in front tries to drag the rear, giving it a workout. Try putting both engines on the track with a foot distance between them and see how close they are.
The powerpack shouldn't have a problem, they typically can power many engines at a time. As noted the problem comes with the engines themselves. They need to be at least close to the same speed, at least within say 5-10% of each other.
In other words, if you have two engines that at 50% power from the powerpack both run at around 30 (scale) MPH or so, they should be find running together. If one runs at 30 and the other at 50, they're going to cause problems running together. You may need to add resistors to the fast one to slow it down, or remove the lightboard from the slower one to speed it up.
I've found Atlas engines tend to be pretty close to each other in speed so work well together, but for other companies it can very hit-or-miss. In the long term, the only way to really speed-match engines is to go to DCC.
2 locomotives on DC?....We did it for years using a 2 power pack cab control and block wiring. Again... 2 locomotives on DC ? ..Time to switch to DCC...Once it's in, you'll never go back to DC....chuck
The answer is yes, IF you've got two locos that match each other in speed control. I have a fairly large fleet of brass steamers, and among them are quite a few locos that match each other very well, so double-heading is seldom a problem. I'm strictly DC (far too many locos to convert), and I have a mountain railroad mainline with fairly steady grades, so double-heading is often a necessity, if not for actual pulling power, at least for prototypical 'looks'.
Granted, DCC makes it much easier to double-head, or use helpers mid-train or in front of the cabooose, but with careful planning, the same thing can be done in DC. I do it all the time.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Northernwoodw Can you run 2 ho scale dc locos in tandem and or on the same track is it safe for them and the controller or will it cook something?
On my original HO layout I ran an ABBA set of Varney FA and FB diesels. I set all four on the track spaced about a foot apart. I mixed them until they all ran together, i.e. the fastest ones were pushing the slowest one. Problems came when dead track was encountered leaving the lead engine stoppped and the pushers spinning their wheels. I solved this by running flexible wiring between all four units so that no matter what track problems they incountered all four kept chugging along. I also ran an AA set of Athearn PAs using the same method.
I made small hooks and loops in the wiring between units so I could remove any unit for servicing.
That is one of the reasons that I have no need to convert to DCC.
BigRusty Northernwoodw Can you run 2 ho scale dc locos in tandem and or on the same track is it safe for them and the controller or will it cook something? On my original HO layout I ran an ABBA set of Varney FA and FB diesels. I set all four on the track spaced about a foot apart. I mixed them until they all ran together, i.e. the fastest ones were pushing the slowest one. Problems came when dead track was encountered leaving the lead engine stoppped and the pushers spinning their wheels. I solved this by running flexible wiring between all four units so that no matter what track problems they incountered all four kept chugging along. I also ran an AA set of Athearn PAs using the same method. I made small hooks and loops in the wiring between units so I could remove any unit for servicing. That is one of the reasons that I have no need to convert to DCC.
Well, except that in DCC there wouldn't be a 'faster one' or 'slower one', by adjusting a few CV's, they'd all be running at the same speed.
How about 3 in tandem and no DCC required?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
cwclark 2 locomotives on DC?....We did it for years using a 2 power pack cab control and block wiring. Again... 2 locomotives on DC ? ..Time to switch to DCC...Once it's in, you'll never go back to DC....chuck
Bah, humbug!
2 steam locos (non-identical) doubleheading the same train? Do it all the time.
DMU and EMU trains with two (or more) powered cars? A couple of dozen every scale-time 'day.'
Catenary locos with two separate motors in parallel? Four running, more to be reactivated as track capacity increases.
All done on good old analog DC - and many of them have been going strong since long before DCC was anything but a science fiction concept. So has the operating scheme, which has been set in stone since 1964.
To Brother Clark and others who have drunk deep at the well of DCC - it isn't the only game in town. In my case, it isn't even the best game. If you would rather use it to run your train(s,) fine. I'd rather use my MZL system to run my entire railroad - all 146 scheduled trains per 'day.'
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL system)
Chuck, I was a real naysayer and holdout for years about DCC. Now that I've been using it for about 8 years there's no way to ever go back. To make or break consist, yard operations, mixed ops plus all the goodies that go w/ DCC I'm sold. I know that all your equipment would be a bear to convert and you seem happy with what you run.
I know that it may not be nec for everyone. Most home layouts that were built w/ intricate blocking and cabs work fine. The old club ran block control in 2 divisions and had 8 cabs. This was done from 1953 to early 90s. I had fun, of coarse it was the only game in town.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
My main line loop is has long drags and requires 2 powered units to pull them all, sometimes I use 3 units depending on how many cars. I am pretty sure there is close to 60ft of running track with some feeder wires in several locations. I use an MRC 9500 pack and it works fine. The one thing you can't do in DC as far as speed matching is running different loco's from different makes that don't match speed. Do like others said and match up your loco's as far as speed.
My Layout is half DC and the other half is DCC. I'm happy both ways, it would break the bank for me if I had to convert all my loco's to DCC.
The question was about DC operation not DCC. If he wanted to know abot DCC I am sure that he would have asked about it. Incidently, my first HO layout was built in 1949, fifty years ago and those lashups were still going strong in 1984 when I packed them up to move to Sunny Scottsdale, Arizona.
Like Chuck said, Bah Humbug!
On my DC powered layout:
My Proto 2-8-8-2's run just fine with my Bachmann 2-6-6-2's and with 50 hoppers behind them on 1.8% grades it does not matter one bit which one is a little faster.
And Three Bachmann 2-8-0's can do a similar job, just like they did on the Western Maryland.
And 3 and 4 unit sets of Alco FA's or EMD F units run smoothly at all speeds. Not to mention the GP7's that assist those hood units from time to time.
OK, I don't run any PA1's with a 2-10-2, but I think we would be hard pressed to find that prototype photo anyway.
Every time a question like this is asked, the DCC sales people come out like used car salesman.
Did the OP say DCC? All those who critized my comparisons of advanced DC systems to DCC should consider that a two way street.
Sheldon
Why would we be threatened? If I wanted to switch to DCC all I have to do is go to Digitrax. The Zephyr can use the DC throttle and be upgrade with other items that just swap out. The technologically advanced digit control of the Zephry almost makes it so my "dinosaur" analogue DC controller will never be inferior. No only if computers where like that.
Just because its under costruction doesn't mean nothing is running, it does fill an 800 sq ft room after all.
Actually, the book will first be offered to RMC or MR as a series of articles so everyone can have it for free.
Sheldon,
Your offerings and ideas seem old shcool. But you seem to know what your talking about far as DC controlling goes. My current layout is "under construction" and is half DC and half DCC. More or less the DCC section is the yard I have and one loop that is short. My system is an older DCC system, not going to say what make it is because it will draw some fire. I have been using block controls for years with no troubles at all, and still like my DC control. Double heading and speed matching is not really an issue with the way its wired up and choice of loco's, I try and keep the same manufacture when double heading.
Yes, I know us DC Neanderthals are a product of old school thinking, but hey. We do what we can with what we got. I like the way My DCC section operates, it was easy to set up and get running and cuts down on allot of the wire issues you have with DC operation. Decoders are fair in price, but I just can't bring myself to dropping tons of money into decoders to convert all my fleet. So I split the difference between the 2 systems, Yes it would be nice to grab whatever I want out of the display cabinet that is in DCC, and put them on the track and double head what ever I want, but again, cost is going to be a factor.
Now the original post was asking about running loco's in tandem in "DC"? There was allot of quick reply's with go to DCC, and thats fine. If thats what you can afford and what loco's you own, they might be older ones that would need allot of mods made, or even brass. I like my DCC, it does what I want and runns the way I want. I have several people I know that have all DCC loco's, RTR right out of the box, just drop one in and your off. This is fine for the MR people that have small roster of engines and extra money. I catch all kinds of static for for not converting everything over to DCC from them, and I always point to my cabinet full of engines and the ones that are in their boxes, and then hold out my other hand expecting some coin to be dropped into my hand like magic, but it never happens.
DC/DCC, Kits/RTR, and Rivet counters this is a big debate that will go on for ever between modelers.
David, Just off hand what are you shooting for here? You seem to have some sort of personal beef with Sheldon, and seem to keep trying to gain some sort of upper hand against him, he did offer some insite on both threads.
davidmbedard ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just because its under costruction doesn't mean nothing is running, it does fill an 800 sq ft room after all. Sheldon Nope, you said your control system was under construction.....stop trying to back track. David B
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Just because its under costruction doesn't mean nothing is running, it does fill an 800 sq ft room after all. Sheldon
Nope, you said your control system was under construction.....stop trying to back track.
David B
"UNDER CONSTRUCTION" Does not necessarily mean INOPERABLE either, how many layouts are still under construction, and are run frequently, it can be true for a control system as well. Just because it is not finnished doesn't make it unusable.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
BigRusty Well, except that in DCC there wouldn't be a 'faster one' or 'slower one', by adjusting a few CV's, they'd all be running at the same speed. The question was about DC operation not DCC. If he wanted to know abot DCC I am sure that he would have asked about it. Incidently, my first HO layout was built in 1949, fifty years ago and those lashups were still going strong in 1984 when I packed them up to move to Sunny Scottsdale, Arizona.
This is one of my Pet Peeves also, the question was SPECIFICALLY about DC operating, NOBODY asked anything about if DCC would be an improvement (in anyone's OPINION). I am a member of a Large club, with approximately 3 ACTUAL MILES of track, with all the staging and yards included. We have been DC since 1947, and 1983 on this current layout( the club has moved twice). DC works just fine for us, and if all the staging was in service and filled to capacity as well as the yards, we could assemble about 100 trains ready to roll at any given time. YES DCC has some advantages, but with as much hidden trackage as we have, I personally not all that thrilled with the currentl in progress ADDITION of DCC. Currently, our Branch line is DC/DCC convertible, which the whole 60x70 layout will be when, THE CONTROL SYSTEM IS FINISHED, IT IS CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION, and likely will be for more than a year, meanwhile the layout is still OPERABLE.
If DCC is your "Cup of Tea" then GREAT feel free to enjoy it all you want, but not everybody feels the need to convert to DCC. I guess since I drive a Jeep Cherokee and a Ford F350 Crewcab 4x4 Turbo Diesel, EVERBODY ELSE should too, get rid of all those Toyotas, Chevy's and BMWs, VWs too, what one size doesn't fit all, my choices FIT ME, why wouldn't they fit You too? Just as silly as everybody should be DCC.
As pointed out yes you can. Besides running them a foot apart to see how much faster one is over the other once you have settled on a apair (or several pairs) that might work, run them over the whole layout to see if there are any problems. First by themselves and then with ever lengthening trains until you get to your standard length train.
As for the ole DC v DCC ignore the apostles of both sides who are working on converting the great "unwashed" to their point of view. Yes DCC makes it much easier to do a lot of things (including the one you want to do) because you are computer controlling each individual unit. Much like an engineer would in real life.
The main thing to ask yourself, and only you can answer this question for yourself, is it worth the investment?
DCC today has come a long way but has a long way to go. It's sort of like the computer situation in the early 80s just before MSDos became the standard you had IBMs and then IBM "compatables". The theory was that the compatables would work just like an IBM. Yeah right, sometimes they did and sometimes they didn't. If you aren't "comfortable" with making an significant investment in converting your layout until true interchangeablity comes along then don't a slong as you are happy with DC.
This is just a hobby afterall and that means you are supposed to enjoy yourself.
I didn't know you DC guys were gonna get in such an uproar with my post. All i was trying to convey is that if there are more than one train (or locomotive as a matter of fact ) DCC is the way you want to go. Just think, no more gazillion toggle switches to throw or two separate locomotives getting into a block where polarity issues become a problem.
Then again, I too was a staunch supporter of DC years after the DCC rage began. (Probably because I was too scared of something new that seemed too complicated and of course, the cost of converting all my locomotives over to decodered locos kept me a DC supporter longer than I should have..) When I did finally break down and take the plunge to DCC I found that operating the railroad with DCC surpassed a DC controlled layout by leaps and bounds.
I've heard this DC/ DCC argument here on the forum time and time again the past 5 years and in my opinion, DCC is the way to go. (No you DC guys are not neanderthals, just scared to take the plunge to something new, the cost involved, or you're just plain satisfied with your current DC system are the issues keeping you from going to DCC.) The reason i eventually went to DCC is that I was lucky enough to get a company bonus one year and had enough to purchase 25 decoders along with the Digitrax Super Chief R DCC system. If it weren't for the company bonus, I'd still probably be a DC guy.
I understand where you DC guys are coming from but in my opinion as stated above DCC is a better way to run a railroad. Weither DC or DCC it doesn't matter. Just because you are partial to DC or partial to DCC doesn't mean everyone has to disrespect each other as i've read in previous posts. Having fun with this hobby is what it's all about weither a DC or DCC guy.....And to answer your question, yes you can run two locomotives with one power pack. ......chuck
To each his/her own, thats whats great about this hobby. To answer the original question, yes you can run more than one locomotive at a time in a consist whether you run DC or DCC. I try to match brands to run together such as Athearn/Athearn & Atlas/Atlas. I am sure there are some exceptions but thats my general rule and I am using DC at the present time. Why? because it works for me but someday I might switch because I am getting addicted to sound units and the functions of DCC.
Oh God, here we go AGAIN! The original question was about running multiple DC locos, and now it's turned into a fistfight between the DC'ers and the DCC'ers, when all the original poster needed was a straight answer to a straight question.
Okay, I'm a DC'er, and I'm so because of age--I'll never live long enough to convert my entire RUNNING fleet of brass locos to DCC--and expense--I won't live long enough to afford THAT, either. Besides, I've heard too many horror stories about converting brass, and I'm not about to give up brass steam, because it's simply the ONLY way I can get prototypes for the particular railroad that I model. You make CHOICES, folks, and that's MINE! Good or bad, it's what I have CHOSEN! And I'm making the most of it and ENJOYING it!
But to call me or other modelers who still use DC a "Neanderthal" is simply and stupidly below the belt. It's a statement that is not only TOTALLY uncalled for, it's INCREDIBLY childish in the worst and most damagingly possible way.
Frankly, David, from one professional musician to another, I would think you FAR above such a statement.
Those of you who swear by DCC, my hat's off to you if it works for you. But do NOT look down on we modelers who use DC out of necessity. The hobby is big enough for us all. Sniping is what what enemies do to each other out of foxholes, not what fellow hobbyists should be doing to each other on a Forum.
'Nuff said. I'm very disappointed in the way this thread has gone. He asked a simple question.
Chuck,
The OP CLEARLY asked a question SPECIFICALLY about running in DC, it REALLY gets old when there can't be a simple thread regarding a question in DC, without the DCC crowd coming in to say DCC would solve that. GUESS WHAT most of us here have a fair or better idea of what DCC is capable of. When was the last time you read a post about a decoder problem, and you had a SINGLE, never mind multiple DC guys tell, you wouldn't have any decoder problems, IF YOU LEFT THE DARK SIDE, and just went back to reliable DC POWER? Do the DCC crowd really suffer from LITTLE MAN SYNDROM that badly, I don't recall the exact percentages, but I did read not too long ago that about 75% or more still run DC. The number of DCC users is still a MUCH smaller percentage of the Hobby than the DC operators, the DCC Crowd just make more noise about it.
And if you really want something to Flame me about, I freely admit that my involvement in HO in general is diminishing all the time, in Favor of 3 Rail O-Gauge. They ain't your Grandpa's Lionels any more. There are 3 Rail O-Gauge that rival HO Brass for detail. Take a look some time, You might not only find yourself surprized, but even tempted, if you really look at what is available.
Unfortunately, the top pic is a stock photo, and is not a part of my collection YET, but all the others are.
David,DCC and DC have one thing in common..Both gets the job done period.I have use DC and DCC and in the end it doesn't matter as long as the modeler is enjoying the hobby in his way.
I don't want nor need DCC on a one horse layout..A larger layout then I might consider DCC since both DC and DCC calls for blocks-in DCC blocks is known as "power blocks"..So,there would be no get wiring advantage unless I decided to not use any "power" blocks but,power boosters might be needed as well as a bus and drop feeders every 6-8 foot-just like DC.
But,the OP was asking about DC which means he may not be interested in DCC.
An apology has been tendered, and that should suffice. However, the reason it had to be tendered is that heated words were exchanged when none would have been needed if the topic had been adhered to from the outset. The topic, with its clear title, was about DC. Let's let the OP retain his thread from this point on. No need for any more talk of DCC since he didn't ask if there were something better than consisting several engines in DC.
-Crandell
Hi I thought I had posted to this thread a bit back but something must have happened as I don't see it or it ended up somewhere else. Anyway I have both DCC and DC and very happy with both.........as to what a dude wants to run is his business and no one elses...........also, regarding if a bench or layout is under construction or operable.............tell me is a layout every finished? Arn't they always all under construction.............changes being made, new items added and such.
I run 2 engines in conjunction with one another using DCC have never tried it with DC but would assume my advice would work either way. I was told to see if the 2 engines are at the same rate was to make a large oval or circle of track and place each engine opposite of one anothe ron the track. Run the engines at moderate speed and if the 2 engines can make 3 laps around the circle before one overtakes the other, then the 2 engines are close enough to the same speed to be used together.
Would like other folks comments on this issue.
Thanks
I go either way DC/DCC
Analog DC here - as far as faster versus slower locos moving a single train, if that train is being operated at appropriate scale speed on part-throttle and no drivers are slipping, that's good enough - even if one loco is a high-drivered 4-6-2 and the other is a low-drivered 2-8-0. Granted that, all alone, the Pacific would run off and hide from the Consolidation. If the Pacific can't get the Limited up the Toosteep Grade by itself, the extra pull or push needed can be provided by anything (except a dinosaur, a larger-scale yard hand or The Mighty 0-5-0 of God.)
The prototype looked at it the same way. For many years the NYC's Hudsons (fast locos if there ever were any!) were helped up the West Albany Hill by the 0-8-0 terminal switcher (anybody's idea of a speed-limited steamer.)
To Brother Bedard. The MZL system becomes operational just as soon as the electricals for the first turnout are in place. It can then be expanded as tracklaying and panel construction proceeds. It's even possible to operate ZL, without ever building a main CTC panel.
My own MZL layout has been operating ZL with one (temporary) zone panel for a couple of years now. The permanent panel for that zone is almost ready for installation. In the meantime, tracklaying has expanded beyond that zone, so a couple of additional temporary panels will soon be in order. At my glacial rate of progress, only (insert Diety of choice) knows when the last zone panel will go in, or if either of the two main (CTC) panels will ever be fabricated and installed. All I'm sure of is that I'm having fun, both installing and operating. (Maybe if I did les operating, the installation would go faster.)
Chuck--
Ahah! You too--
Whenever I feel that I might have added a couple too many cars to my "Yuba River Express" for my 4-6-2 to handle, out comes my trusty, stubby little 2-8-0 to help her up the grade to Yuba Summit. Of course, my 4-6-2 has no trouble with the extra cars, but that little Consol helpter at the head end just looks too neat to pass up.
And they are close enough at half-throttle to run quite smoothly together, so it works for me.