Right under the title:
Part 1: .......
The last sentence:
Follow along as i explain how I built this foundry.
My guess is that they might get into more detail next issue. I would wait to see what is in next months issue to see if they explain it little better.
Chris
Check out my railroad at: Buffalo and Southwestern
Photos at:Flicker account
YouTube:StellarMRR YouTube account
Chris,
I hope so. But, I'm not sure. The last sentence is:
Next month, I'll explain how to make the crane, the supporting trestles and its canopy."
Mark
markalanFor example, with the scrap iron receiving bins, it describes the conveyers. They are not identified in the photos. I assume they are at the bottom of the bins somewhere, but I can't figure out where. Then tubing is used to represent the end of each conveyer. Again, I have no idea where they are and can't find any tubing in the photo of the bin. Lastly, there is a row of scale 9" disks. I can't find them either.
Absolutely amazing! I looked at those bins and figured that they must be the easiest part of the project....until I started to compare the words with the picture.
I sent an e-mail to the editors saying that I was disappointed, or maybe frustrated, with the article for exactly the same reasons you mentioned. I did receive a reply back stating that there is always a lot of cutting and fitting involved with projects like this, and that a lot of dimensions could not be provided for this reason. Well, I understand that aspect. But then there was a comment made that maybe I should try some smaller scratchbuilding projects before I jumped into one of this size. Well, okay, that might be true, but that should be for me to decide.
My contention is that this was presented as a how to do it (or how to attempt it) article. There was a lot of written description of things, as well as an on-line part list. However, there were inadequate photos showing how the sub-assemblies were supposed to look. Your point of all the things described being hidden under the bin and not shown is exactly what I was frustrated with. I can see cutting to fit as being necessary, but there needs to at least be a photo of how the thing is supposed to look.
I cannot see any way anyone could build that bin with the information given.
Maybe there will be more photos made available in the next issue. Hopefully so. But there was not any hint of this in the e-mail reply I received.
You've come up with a few very specific questions, which is a good start. I would wait until the series completes to see if you get answers.
If not, send an e-mail to MR with the questions, and ask them to pass them on to the author. It's likely that he will be happy to provide more detail, and maybe even additional photos.
A few months back, people were complaining that MR had been "dumbed down" and only appealed to the most basic of modellers. It would seem that they have addressed that problem, eh? Here is the kind of project that one would have been surprised to find a year or two ago. True scratchbuilding, with extra thought required. Unique, show-quality modelling, done the old-fashioned way.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
markalanSo I started reading. I've now decided I cannot build it with just the information in this article. I have to wonder if I just need to know more about foundries because in a number of the subparts I just cannot figure out where things go. For example, with the scrap iron receiving bins, it describes the conveyers. They are not identified in the photos.
That's because they are buried at the bottom of the hopper and unless you turn the model upside down you probably won't see them.
I assume they are at the bottom of the bins somewhere, but I can't figure out where.
The bottom. For lack of a better term, the bins sit on top of them.
Then tubing is used to represent the end of each conveyer. Again, I have no idea where they are and can't find any tubing in the photo of the bin. Lastly, there is a row of scale 9" disks. I can't find them either.
The conveyor is so small and at the bottom, the conveyor is hidden behind the legs in the detail photo of the bins.
Also, I have yet to figure out the depth of the three plant structure boxes. The heights and widths are there, but how deep are they?
Since I kit bash most of my buildings this way, the answer is obvious to me, but if you are used to building kit buildings or full depth buildings you might not see it.
This building is a "false front" building. Note the back is completely open to the world. That's because it backs up against the backdrop. It is NOT a full depth building. So the answer to your question is, the building is as deep as the distance from the front of the building to your backdrop. If your foundry will not back up against a back drop, the the depth of the building is YOUR choice. Its made of sheet styrene. Cut it off as wide as you want.
My question about this project is whether it is just beyond my knowledge and skills? I've done a fair amount of kit bashing and I've scratch built one large building but I don't think I could complete the foundry from this article. I'd really like to though. Any thoughts on what I need to do to be able to?
Go with the flow. Its a freelancend building. Fake it. The model is NOT an exact scale replica, its an approximation (and a good one) to create the feel and mass of a foundry. Don't get hung up on the conveyor. Chances are, unless somebody picks up your model, separates the bins from the rest of the foundry and turns it upside down, you won't see the conveyor anyway. Go to :
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/habs_haer/
And search for "foundry", "steel mill". Look at the pictures, get the general arrangement. Then build the foundry. "Feel the force Luke."
]
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Yes, I advise buying Freytag's book The Cyclopedia of Industrial Modeling. I also advise getting a Plastruct catalog because the two sort of go together. It calls for a certain level of concentration to follow a Freytag project from beginning to end.
I felt similarly frustrated by a recent Dean Freytag article in the NMRA Scale Rails on building a sheet steel load support for a gondola. I had to read it very closely and study the photos closely to grasp what he was talking about. He tends to use a standard vocabulary to describe parts and techniques and I think he assumes a certain familiarity with his methods. And this makes sense -- not many are going to tackle that foundry as a first scratchbuilding project.
If you go to one of Dean Freytag's NMRA clinics (and he is a great clinician) and he shows how he built things out of strange little parts and cheap toys taken apart, and he passes around stuff so you can see for yourself, you come out of the clinic saying "I could do that." Then you sit at your workbench and wonder "now what?" You wish Dean was there to talk you through it.
Dave Nelson
Thanks for the observations and comments.
Maxman,I looked at the bins with exactly the same thoughts. I ended up with the same reaction. I'm interested in the response to your email. I can understand the limitations of the space for the article. But, there is already a list of parts on th MR website. Why not include more details for those of us who are more obsessive about knowing what goes where?Mister Beasley,I missed the complaints about "dumbing down." You're right. There's definitely a lot demanded of anyone interested in trying this project. Dave H,Good point on the depth of the buildings. I was focused on how precise all the measurements that were given are. And, he did give an overall size that does allow estimating how deep he built it. I would shrink or expand them to fit my space.And I appreciate your thoughts on the conveyer. My thought is that it would be a neat detail to have and if I could build it, I'd do it for my own satisfaction. As an aside, I was looking at an O scale car repair building being built with a complete interior. The floor is made of individual wood blocks and he scratch built a circa 1900 hand turned grinder with 13 parts. Call me crazy obsessive, but I like that stuff.Dave N,I've order the catalog and may well get the Cyclopedia. I'd like to try this kind of project. I've done enough kitbashing with styrene to have the confidence I could do this if I had enough information. I actually think all that is really needed is the addition of more photos to go with his description. I'm still puzzled by the bins. I can't figure out the conveyers, as I said, and I can't figure out exactly (yeah, I know, but that's my style) what is going on at the base of each bin. Yes, I wish I could ask Dean to tell me more ...My final thoughtsI've looked at the parts list. This would not be an inexpensive project. Am I going to go ahead and order them? I don't think so. Definitely not until I see the next article. What I hope is that MR realizes some of us want to expand our skills and would enthusiastically embrace this type of project/article if we thought we could build a reasonable approximation of what is presented. It would be great to find an addition to the present section on the web site with more photos and information.Lastly, I'd be interested in hearing from those with lots of experience scratch building like this. Would they need or want more details, more information, more photos?Thanks all,Mark
This article has been the most interesting article i've seen in MR in quite a long time. I cannot wait for the next installments...as this appears to be something that I could build. I actually don't think it would be a problem to build a similar version off of this month's article alone if I put my mind to it.
Odie,
Tell me more. (Especially about the !*#?! conveyors.)
markalanTell me more. (Especially about the !*#?! conveyors.)
Just read it slowly and build it. Its not that difficult.
On the other hand I am a tinkerer and have an engineering degree, so I play with things until I figure out how to make them fit. So for me, non specific instructions aren't a problem. If you model the 1900 era you have to be able to do that or you just don't model.
I've noticed a change over the years in the way MR presents how-to articles.
In older magazines, there would be instructions like "using a piece of 0.040 styrene, cut three pieces 0.0125x0.45 inches. They will be cemented to the angled pieces you cut earlier from 0.30 channel stock."
Now, you get an overview and some general instructions on how to make something, with a fair amount of imagination thrown in.
I think it's a way of reaching more readers, not everyone wants a foundry building, but someone might be interested in some of the techniques and ideas to apply to his or her own project.
I wish I was a headlight
On a northbound train
Except for the simplest of projects, I've rarely seen a magazine article on scratchbuilding or major kit-bashing projects to be sufficient unto themselves. You would need at least a whole magazine, including that devoted to advertising space, to provide complete instructions. Some true craftsman kits have instructions as voluminous as a thick magazine. Thus, it is usually necessary to "wing it" for these complex magazine projects for much of the work, relying on your imagination, real-world knowledge, and familiarity with working with the materials (which many/most of us don't possess in sufficiency.) The couple I've done ended up a bit different than the authors', but that was OK...... Kit manufacturers have said that preparing instructions is the most difficult of their tasks.
An article like this is not meant to be step by step. What's going on is the author is showing you how they approach a complex project like the foundry. In most cases, people will choose to modify things in different ways to fit their own prototype, circumstance, or available footprint. Then there's the cases of what you don't think needs to be done in its full complexity, because it might be on a side that is visible on your own layout or has to be cut-off because there's a stairway or second deck above. I'd be impressed if someone did build an exact duplicate, but I'd be more charmed by something that takes this idea and runs in a little different direction
It's nice to see articles like this one and the Beer Line series. They are more than basic info that teach how to work through the process of fitting together different elements to portray a prototype that applies to a variety of situations. Yes, it's true that you may need to build your confidence by taking on something simpler to start with. Nothing wrong with that, Rome -- or your layout -- won't be built in a day.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I haven't gotten my issue yet so this is mere thoughts on the concept of this.
I like to see more articles about building things. For me MR had grown stale and I've just been in to model railroading for three years. But most of the stuff that was written in it was generic praises of layouts which quite frankly started to loose my intrest. I want more detailed instructions, I want ideas and general planning articles. Not just pretty pics.
So I welcome this, plus that I'm building my own mill so this will come in handy for sure. More of this!
Magnus
I'd like to see more of these kinds of articles too as they actually encourage me to build ON the skill sets I may--kinda sorta ---have. I tend to wing it a lot anyways so these would help a lot!!
As it is, there are not too many articles that even approach the level of work Dean puts into the structures he produces so to me ANYTHING that comes out from him--and let's face it--when did you SEE an article about his work last?---is a good thing.
But--I'd really like a bit more detail as well on some things---freelance scratchbuilding in a proper sense of real world structural work is tricky too without some practical skills that were written about in the older mags----
Just my view
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
As a steel mill modeler ,one has to build the best they can. I other words its most likely not going to look like the picture. Steel mill,foundry models are in fact a small portion of todays modeling. You can;t go out a buy a huge basic oxygen furnace structure now can you ?
So what do you do ? You scratch/bash the intended structure to the best of your ability. Listen folks you don't need an engineering degree to build these buildings.They aren't that hard. Remember when you were a kid ? What did you do ? You used your imagination right ? Same thing in model railroading.
Mr Freytag along with a whole host of other modelers have given insight on how to do things. All you have to do is use your imagination. Worked very well on my steel mill complex and has done with others too.
Patrick
Beaufort,SC
Dragon River Steel Corp {DRSC}
Modeling a steel mill complex in HO
Fear an Ignorant Man more than a Lion- Turkish proverb
Modeling an ficticious HO scale intergrated Scrap Yard & Steel Mill Melt Shop.
Southland Industrial Railway or S.I.R for short. Enterchanging with Norfolk Southern.
oo-OO-OO-ooI've noticed a change over the years in the way MR presents how-to articles. In older magazines, there would be instructions like "using a piece of 0.040 styrene, cut three pieces 0.0125x0.45 inches. They will be cemented to the angled pieces you cut earlier from 0.30 channel stock." Now, you get an overview and some general instructions on how to make something, with a fair amount of imagination thrown in.
Exactly.
This is precisely what people like me are referring to when we complain that the content of MR has been "dumbed down." You simply cannot explain a complex project with photos with callouts; sometimes, you need detailed text, which MR used to supply but no longer does.
I notice there are now two threads suggesting that articles in this month's magazine do not adequately explain the projects. That should raise red flags in the editorial offices at Kalmbach.
Thanks for everyone's posts. I found everyone's observations and comments both helpful and thought provoking. This forum is, simply, a tremendous resource of experience and expertise.
markalan
dragonriversteel As a steel mill modeler ,one has to build the best they can. I other words its most likely not going to look like the picture. Steel mill,foundry models are in fact a small portion of todays modeling. You can;t go out a buy a huge basic oxygen furnace structure now can you ? So what do you do ? You scratch/bash the intended structure to the best of your ability. Listen folks you don't need an engineering degree to build these buildings.They aren't that hard. Remember when you were a kid ? What did you do ? You used your imagination right ? Same thing in model railroading. Mr Freytag along with a whole host of other modelers have given insight on how to do things. All you have to do is use your imagination. Worked very well on my steel mill complex and has done with others too. Patrick Beaufort,SC Dragon River Steel Corp {DRSC} Modeling a steel mill complex in HO
You do not have make a copy........just use like items. KITBASH!
Check you left over parts from other kits.
Like the crane & canopy from this bulding.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3045
Add maybe these: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3733
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3526
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3525
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3128
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3105
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3102
Ect Ect Ect......
This may be a little late but ...
http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=43.010001~-87.996486&style=h&lvl=17&tilt=-40.8653653073983&dir=2.90694013832941&alt=1210.42236951739&cam=42.998327~-87.993648&scene=5433186&phx=0.357178993405352&phy=-0.50753678808417&phscl=4.89778819368446&ss=yp.win~pg.1~sst.0&encType=1
I wouldn't sweat a detail like a conveyor because if you wanted to "super detail" this model there are apparently lots of things to choose from.
Could any one tell me what era the article is based on? How old is this complex?
Joe <><
.
I'm certain there is limited "space" on MR's internet server to hold all the information that has ever been presented on the website. Old files get removed to make room for new ones. I'm sure if you send an e-mail to someone at MR with a polite request for that parts list, they will probably be able to find the file and send it to you.
Good luck,
Tom
Odie Just curious about whatever happened to the "Bonus Online Content" for this article. MR was supposed to have a material list published, but I am unable to find it on MR.com.
Just curious about whatever happened to the "Bonus Online Content" for this article. MR was supposed to have a material list published, but I am unable to find it on MR.com.
Just on the chance that the page was hidden but lurking somewhere on the site, I laboriously typed in the URL that went with the parts list and -- it came up empty, returning me to the trains.com home page. I have to say I am no fan of making such an important part of a construction article an "on-line extra" -- supplemental photos, fine, additional thoughts about the project, fine, but not the parts list.
Anyway if all else fails (that is, if Kalmbach MR can't assist you) contact me and I'll xerox my print out and sent it to you via mail. But by the way -- you'd also want access to a Plastruct catalog. The lion's share of the parts on the list are Plastruct.
dehusman Go with the flow. Its a freelancend building. Fake it. The model is NOT an exact scale replica, its an approximation (and a good one) to create the feel and mass of a foundry. Don't get hung up on the conveyor. Chances are, unless somebody picks up your model, separates the bins from the rest of the foundry and turns it upside down, you won't see the conveyor anyway. Go to : http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/habs_haer/ And search for "foundry", "steel mill". Look at the pictures, get the general arrangement. Then build the foundry. "Feel the force Luke." ]
Dave,
Great post. Everything I've ever scratchbuilt (even with detailed plans) has been modified, chopped, improvised or out right faked in some fashion. Regardless of how many photos, drawings, etc are available, there's always something that you will have to make your best guess as to how it goes..
Markalan: Good luck on the project.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site