Getting cheap locomotives to run well

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Snake

I use my cheap LL stuff for airbru***arget practice [:D]

[(-D] [(-D] [(-D] [(-D] [(-D]

[fec153]

To all- Chris aka error error, has been around for awhile. Many posts all around the forum including The Coffee Club. Has good opinions and has been helpful.
Flip

[Anonymous]

The top makers of plastic diesel locomotives are, IMHO (in order!):

1. Atlas Master (lateliy, divided into Silver or Gold)
2. Kato
3. Life-like Proto 2000 (P2K)
4. Athearn Genesis (some are in the second tier, such as the first SD70Ms)

The next tier is:

5. Stewart
6. Atlas Classic

The final tier is:

7. Life-like P1K
8. Athearn RTR/ Bluebox (SOME RTRs are a cut above the BB, but it varies)
9. Walthers Trainline (quality varies)

AVOID: Tyco, Model Power, generic Life-like, Bachmann diesels (some of their steamers are top notch, however!). BLI is too much for too little, IMHO, with poor detail (plus recent Atlas and P2K locos have better sound!)

Note that these "ratings" are based on CURRENT models (made within the last five years)- NOT older ones !!! Don't try to compare newer offerings with older Atlas/Kato, Stewart/Kato, etc. If you don't have any black box Atlas Masters, you don't know Atlas quality !!!

[Anonymous]

Switch to athrean, bachmann spectrum, or walthers. They make quality trains for under
$50.00 & walthers has some of the most realistic freight on the market . Have fun & try
a train show. I got a rivrossi can motor 4-6-4 for $25.00 & it works well.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the others. Check out Ebay. I got a P2k A-B-B-A from Ebay for $90. Went back on ebay, picked up a sound decoder for $50 and now they are a very impressive consist that looks, pulls, and sounds great and i got it for under $150!

[Anonymous]

Judging by my experience with Lima locos (thankfully now out of production - some of the worst drive systems ever, truck mounted motors and very poor build quality!) there are ways to get reasonable performance out of these:

Clean the wheels and poli***he commutator (the part of the motor that the brushes rub against - I poli***his with a peco track cleaning block)

Oil the motor bearings, and the worm drive bearings on locos with central motors

Grease the gears

Now give it a good long break-in run. This should get you the best perfomance possible from the loco. If they're still not up to it, take a look at the Bachmann GP40 (the latest type with full pilots and body mounted couplers) - they're very cheap but decent runners, the only thing lacking is flywheels and due to the nature of the motor (decent quality can motor) this doesn't seem to make much difference. Hope this helps!

[Don Gibson]

CHEAP LOCO'S weren't desgned to run well. They were designed for new buyer's that only expected them to run., and design engineers were supposed to cut corners. You can see the result's.

At one time the BACHMANN engine's ran like your Life Like's. - Some still do.
Both companies are now putting out better product's: Life Like with 'HERITAGE', Bachmann with 'SPECTRUM', and I almost forgot: Atharn with GENESIS.

If you decide to stay in the hobby, the selection gets better, and you have nowhere to go , along with your Pleasure, but UP.

EXCELSIOR !

[AntonioFP45]

LIfeLike Proto 1000 and Proto 2000 units are going for some good prices on Ebay and discount dealers. P1K RDC units are in the $20 range while various P2K units arge going from $30 to $90, depending on the model.

The trick with Ebay is not to "pounce" on the first model that you find. For a long while I noticed that certain vendors were selling the Proto 2000 GP9 in SCL for $74 on Ebay with the "Buy it Now". I was tempted to jump on it, but as suggested by a good friend of mine, I waited patiently and more kept showing up.

I bid on one that had few bidders and got it for $45 dollars from Model Trains Stuff! I was smiling! Neat thing about this is that I got a new, good running, nicely detailed locomotive for a price cheaper than an Athearn Blue Box!

Point is that it is a little easier for modelers on tight budgets to afford decent running diesels. If you own Tyco, Bachmann or Life Like "toy" units that's o.k. but there's no need to buy anymore "low grade" units when quality is affordable!

Peace and Cheers!

[UPJohn]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

I would suggest considering an Athearn "Blue Box" locomotive, such as an F7, or a GP9 (4 axles, motor in the center with driveshafts to the trucks, all wheel pickup). These locomotives are tough, smooth running, still reasonably priced, and encounter very few problems. I've owned Athearns since 1977. As for electrical pick-up keep the track clean and you'll notice that it may out perform the Bachmann. Check out a Model Railroad shop in your area.

This is a great idea. The athearn BB locos are great locos for their price. They run smooth and have a good slow speed. They are priced around $30-$56. I have two BB GP40-2s and they run great. THe only problem i had is one of them got too much dog hair wrapped around the axles from running it on the floor. It use to be as smooth as my other one. Just beware athearn can have inconsistent quality but i doubt that it will happen to you. If you want even better engines go with Athearn Genisis, Kato, or Atlas but i dont sughest running them on the floor plus they are in the $100-$150 range.

John

[Anonymous]

My 3 basic life-like locos, that started me back on this magnificent hobby are all dead now. Ran 'em till they gave up (which didn't take long).

The UP 0-4-0 is a static display on my layout in a "park". The SF GP38-2 is a dummy that I occasionally use behind my Athearn & Kato F7's and the UP F40PH justs sits in a box. (wrong era).

My basic Athearn F's are great runners, as are my IHC 4-8-2, Stewart/Kato F7, Rivarossi 4-6-6-4 and my expensive Trix Big Boy.

I doubt if I would ever run any basic LL models, but the basic Athearns are a great value and are tough engines. I run my engines a lot, and run them hard and the Athearn's have been great. Some detail painting and lighting adds a lot to their appearance.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwar

Not to change the subject, How did Cris get on the forum without a profile, its blank and the post above states, error error.

Maybe he has a cloaking device on his computer.

[howmus]

[#offtopic]

jwar, Chris does not have a profile because he evidently resigned from the forum (or was removed).

[jwar]

Not to change the subject, How did Cris get on the forum without a profile, its blank and the post above states, error error.

[Roadtrp]

I just wanted to remind folks that Life Like N scale standard product is very different from their HO. The N scale standard product does have all wheel pickup and dual flywheel motors. I've found Life Like's N scale locomotives to be reliable runners with good low speed operation considering the modest cost.

[:)]

[Anonymous]

One of the first things to do is check the wheel gauge with a N.M.R.A. standards gauge. Adding weight inside the shell helps. You can use Phosphor-Bronze Wire or a sheet of Phosphor-Bronze to make a pick up shoe to improve electrical pick up.
Check for binding gears. Disconnect the worm gear from the gear box and pu***he loco across a piece of glass or mirror. If the wheels don't roll, something is binding in the gears (and / or side rods on a steamer). If they are binding, check for any plastic flash on the gears and carefully remove the flash with a new #11 xacto blade. Lube gear box lightly with a plastic compatable gear lube.
Replacing the motor with a quality can motor is expensive and requires basic mechanical skills. Usually can motors cost more than a new Bachmann loco.

There is detailed information on tuning up Athearn diesel locomotives on The Athearn Maintenance and Upgrade Site. The information can be applied, more or less, to any model locomotive.

It's worth a try to do the no or low cost stuff. And if you mess it up, oh well it didn't run very well any way. Paint it with Rust All and park it in a locomotive scrap yard on the layout.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr

The only time experienced modelers mess with cheap engines is if it is the only version out there.

Very good point. For years this was exactly the case with the Tyco GP20. The mechanism was very poor in quality, but the body shell had great potential as the dimensions were very close to the prototype.

Back in the 1980s, Athearn featured an excellent article on a modeler that took one of these units in the UP scheme, detailed the body well, and adapted it to an Athearn chassis. Looked as good as a P2K unit of today! Some of the Alco shells also were "workable".

The Bachmann DDA40X is another old unit that, while a poor noisy runner, has great potential for modelers wanting one of these giants. The DD40 Athearn produced........................never existed!!

To this day I don't know why Irv Athearn (r.i.p) didn't produce the DDA40X or DD35?!!-----[%-)] Athearn already had the body sections that could have been used to produce both units: The F45/FP45 cab, and the GP35 hood sections. Go figure!

[ndbprr]

The only time experienced modelers mess with cheap engines is if it is the only version out there. Somtimes you just have to take a bad engine and repower it. There are repower kits for some typical wheel arrangemnets and lengths available. I could understand how you might want to hang on to your first locomotive for sentimental reasons. If you do choose to upgrade some things to look for regardless of brand:
1. all wheel pick up
2. weight of the engine
3. parts availablility
4. slow speed operating right out of the box
5. quietness
6. minimum radius considerations

[Anonymous]

I live on cheap locos! While I don't have any life-like, I can't tell you much about how to get them going nicely. But I can supply you with some tips

- Keep the tracks clean. This is the #1 problem with most Locos
- Make sure your tracks are conducting fine. While i'm no expert as EZ track, regular snap tracks constantly have problem with this. I find It helps to take a moto-tool, and wire bru***he rails with a brass brush. Do this especally with old or used tracks.
-Clean the wheels on the Locos periodicly (Rubbing alcohol will do). watch for the little contacts to make sure they are installed properly. While you're at it, throw a little bit of oil on the gears and wheel bushings
- keep your train motor lubed as well. A drop on both bushings will do.

Bachmann is probably the best for starters. I got a few Model Powers and "Methano's" and they work quite nicely.

You should also know that the cheaper you pay, the quality gets lower.
EBay's a great place to get locos that are fairly cheap (Although used).

I hear low-quality locos from the 70's (Mainly tyco) Go from bad running to worse, but I think keep it oiled and they should be fine

Hope this helps.

Chris

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sparkingbolt

Sometimes theres not much you can do for cheap locos. At switches you often have a large dead spot electrically, and many cheap locos only pick up power on only 4 of their 8 wheels.(deisels) This combo just won't work effectively. We're better off buying a decent 8 wheel pick-up loco. Dan

Sometimes you just got to give up on the cheap LL locos. I sold all those off a long time ago. The few remaining ones, I use to practice my airbrush strokes.

You'd be better off replacing it with, at least, an Athearn unit.

[RedLeader]

A couple of years ago when I strated in serious MRing, I strated with a trio of Bachmann geeps. I recently bought a couple of Athearn's Genesis line diesels. There's a light-year performance gap between the Bachmanns and the Athearns!!

The real problem with the Bachmanns(cheaps not spectrum) and LLs is that they have 2-axle(in 4-axled locos) drive with a truck mounted motor, leaving the front truck iddle. The traction produced by this system is minimum, so rubber bands on the wheels are needed to increase traction, and yet they still have very little traction. The rubber bands prevent electric pick-up. So trying to rewire the trucks for more current pick-up is just a waste of time, just like Riverhill said. The best solution is to buy a good loco. Athearn (non genesis) are very good and they're the best value in the market. Atlas,Kato and P2K are good choises too.

With experience you will know which products are best for your needs, and there are visrtualy endless choises out there for you to choose. Not always the most expensive is the best. Perhaps you don't need one of those brass ultra ditailed models that may cost thousands of dollars, but all you need is a nice looking loco that runs good for your kids' layout. Sometimes kids don't care about era matching grills, prototype paint schemes, hand rails, road numbers, etc. They just want a train that runs.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Pogie, and welcome!

I've been in your situation before.

Don't take this negatively but honestly, there is only so much tweaking you can do with your LL unit as it has a "truck mounted" motor which performance wise is quite limited.

I would suggest considering an Athearn "Blue Box" locomotive, such as an F7, or a GP9 (4 axles, motor in the center with driveshafts to the trucks, all wheel pickup). These locomotives are tough, smooth running, still reasonably priced, and encounter very few problems. I've owned Athearns since 1977. As for electrical pick-up keep the track clean and you'll notice that it may out perform the Bachmann. Check out a Model Railroad shop in your area.

Hope this helps!

[Anonymous]

Here is an easy way to get these to run "better". I assume you are writing about diesels; since you have more that one of the LLs, run them together, putting them together front-to-back, or better, back-to-back. This will spread the contact wheels farther apart, and should reduce much of the jerking. The cheapest LLs do not have metal wheels on the drive truck, so using them for any kind of current pickup is impossible, without more esoteric efforts. Try the above and see whether it helps.

[Anonymous]

Pogie, [#welcome] to the forum!

I use my cheap LL stuff for airbru***arget practice [:D]

[nfmisso]

Ray's advice above is about the only thing that will help if other locomotives are running well on the track. And even that does not always help.

[Anonymous]

Keeping track and wheels clean is a good suggestion. You may also be able to add more contact, either by way of "shoes/wipers" or possibly by modifying the truck that doesn't pick up power. You said that the rear truck picks up power (and I assume has the driving wheels). The front may be wired to pick up power too - but for the headlight. It is relatively simple to run wires to the motor. You would then have 8 wheel pickup, which should make for more reliable running.

Another thing you can try is to feed power to the track at frequent intervals. Feeder wires (small gauge - like telephone wire) is run from the track to a "bus wire" underneath the layout. This results in better power levels throughout the layout so it is less likely for the loco to lose performance.

Have fun, and as you grow in the hobby, you can always upgrade. I think a lot of people start this way, even though they may have fogotton over the years... [;)]

Andrew

[sparkingbolt]

Sometimes theres not much you can do for cheap locos. At switches you often have a large dead spot electrically, and many cheap locos only pick up power on only 4 of their 8 wheels.(deisels) This combo just won't work effectively. We're better off buying a decent 8 wheel pick-up loco. Dan

[Anonymous]

Keeping the wheels and track clean is a must with locos with only 4 wheel electrical pickup. I have taken a couple of cheep L/L GP38-2s and ran MU cables (jumper wires) between the two to improve the electrical pickup.

[Anonymous]

I am brand new to the hobby and need some advice. I bought my son a Bachmann starter set for Christmas. Since then we have added a couple of the cheapest line Life-Like locomotives.

The Bachmann loco runs really well. Runs at low speed and is very smooth everywhere on the track. The life-like locos start ,stop and jerk at various parts of the track, especially at the switches. It is Bachmann EZ track. HO. Is this a result of the Bachmann having power to both trucks where the LL only have power to the rear, or is there anyting I can do to improve the performance of the LLs? I have checked all of the connections in the track and they seem good.