Hello Fritz,
Any tips on how to correctly paint a bow wave for a PM E-7 as delivered? Microscale makes decals that will work in both HO and N scale. I just need to know the best technique to get the bow wave mask. Thanks, Bob PMHS member.
Yes, the PM Yellow was called Venitian Yellow and was just about the same as the ATSF Cat Whisker Yellow...or maybe just a tint darker. The C&O Federal Yellow is much darker. and not right for the "as delivered" scheme for the PM.
The PM Yellow color was called Venitian Yellow by Dupont. It was a creamier yellow, lighter than the C&O Federal Yellow. IT was almost a light as the ATSF Cat Whisker yellow...but wit a little more yellow tone to it.
C&OFan Actually, when painting ligt and dark colors, it is better to paint the light colors first, mask, and then follow up withe the darker colors. That way you get a crisper line with no bleed through of the darker color through the lighter color. Bob
Actually, when painting ligt and dark colors, it is better to paint the light colors first, mask, and then follow up withe the darker colors. That way you get a crisper line with no bleed through of the darker color through the lighter color.
Bob
To the OP: Have you had any luck with finding the P2K E units and and BL2s? I have one of each because I liked the scheme, I might even have a duplicate BL2. Good runners, and easy to DCC/Sound if that floats your boat.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-21074
-Morgan
I don't use solvent based paints so I use either Badger Model Flex, or Polly Scale paints. I've come close to the PM Venitian Yellow by starting with Pollyscale #F414146 ATSF Cat Whisker Yellow and add several drops of reefer yellow or C&O Federal Yellow
to darken it to the correct shade.
As far as the Enchantment Blue, I've found that the Model Flex looks good to me. The Polly Scale, on the other hand, has a look similar to what I would imaging that an older car would look like after being in used for a couple of years. It has a good tone, but has somewhat of a slightly faded weathered look.
no, actualy I am starting to model the PM in Ho scale, i created the account when i was doing alot with O scale 3 rail
I recently picked up 5 PM passenger cars from bev-bel corp on ebay, along with a PM coach from branchline that i built and super detailed it.
then when i went to the gratiot valley show yesterday i got a silverstreak boxcar that was detailed to be one of the doubble sheithed boxcars converted to exspress traffic.
so needless to say, i need a BL-2 or a E-7 in PM / C&O
There were eight E7As ordered by the PM and delivered painted in the blue and yellow scheme that eventually was adapted to the C&O's diesels after the PM-C&O merger.
The first two, #101 and #102, were early models (Phase I) with small, side-mounted number boards. These were the locomotives purchased for the Pere Marquette streamliner's 3 daily round trips between Grand Rapids and Detroit. These were delivered in 1946.
Numbers 103 through 108 were delivered in mid-1947 to dieselize the rest of the PM's mainline passenger operations. They were Phase II units with the larger number boards, but didn't have the extra vents on either side of the carbody windows that later E7s (such as those on the NYC and the Pennsy) had.
All eight of these units were painted "stainless steel" (similar to Scalecoat Maintenance-of-Way Gray), Venetian Yellow, and Enchantment Blue.
Be careful of matching paint to offset-printed postcards and lithographs, especially ones that are 50 years old. There was considerable color drift in the printing runs. I have three identical postcards showing the Pere Marquette streamliner, printed by the same printing house in three different runs, and the yellows vary considerably among them. The E7 in my avatar was scanned from one of them that is far too red-saturated.
The so-called Venetian Yellow has been the subject of a lot of disagreement over the years as to its actual color. It is a pale yellow (or as Rich Meyer at Champ Decals called it "creamy yellow"). PMHS Newsletter Editor Fred Herr researched the actual color by comparing the mixing formula to some existing paint chips and came to the conclusion that a better description is "1939 Cadillac Yellow". Given that the paint scheme was selected in an office located in General Motors' office building in Detroit, that line of reasoning holds up pretty well.
The common way to mix the yellow for many years was to start with Erie Lackawanna Yellow and dilute it with Reefer White to whatever shade you felt matched. For all practical purposes, though, the yellow on the paint chips is so close to what Floquil sells as "ATSF Cat Whisker Yellow" that I prefer to use that. It's really that pale.
The C&O Enchantment Blue Floquil sells is the right stuff to my eyes. It's mixed just a little light so that it looks good under most lighting conditions.
The way I paint these locomotives is start with the "stainless steel" band as a general undercoat. Des Plaines Hobbies sold a special mix of Scalecoat they call Missouri Pacific/Pere Marquette Grey (their item #DPH965) that I quite like for this. Once that this dries, I mask off the band, then spray Cat Whisker Yellow on the nose and pilot and back to behind the first side window on the body.
Next, mask the yellow for the "bow waves". I find it useful to make a plastic template to use when cutting the masking for this. That way, the bow waves on both sides come out symmetrical. Once you've masked off the yellow, give the model a coat of Enchantment Blue (or Des Plaines Hobbies' DPH967 C&O/PM blue, which is a little darker).
Now, having said all that, there are some variations.
The E7s' paint jobs were modified enough during the 1950s, that after about 1953, it would be hard to find two that were painted identically.
Now, aside from my comments about variations during the 1950s, what I've said doesn't specifically cover C&O #95-98, delivered in the C&O's variant of the PM paint scheme.
I've been gradually collecting photos of the PM's E7s for an article on the paint scheme variations they wore. I plan to eventually publish it in the PM Historical Society's PM Tracks newsletter.
Now, as for decals for the PM's E7s, THAT is another discussion altogether. What scale are you modeling in? O scale (as your login ID suggests)?
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
The E7's were at one time pure PM they were delivered in 1946 for powering the Pere Marquette streamliner, so I was going to paint the E unit in full PM
the postcard is very good for the paint scheme, but i have heard from many people that the yellow used was not as C&O like as its offten made out to be, it is said to be a lighter yellow.
thanks,
Tom
Clarification: These are C&O, not PM. C&O had bought them out. Pere Marquette wsas retained as "brand recognition".
I'd start with the blue, then the yellow, and if you can find some, decals for the stripes. Also, there were several variations of the PM scheme. There's a nice book on the Pere Marquesttes. Probably called Pere Marquette. If you airbrush, the PollyScale has C& colors markked as the C&O tricolor. That's basically waht the PM was.
If your interested, Proto 2000 put out a PM that is easily sounded, and Con COr put out some DC models of the PM.
Tom ... Is this the color scheme you are thinking of? Perhaps this EMD publicity picture will help you.
I just scanned the EMD card in my collection.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
the Pere Marquette had a beautiful fleet of E7's devoted to pasenger serace, these locomotives were the gems of the PM, they were the head of the first postwar streamliner The Pere Marquette (how original) I recently got some decals for one of the units, I was wondering if anyone could help me with colors and painting tips (especialy "the wave" at the front of the locomotive)