Would You Model Overseas Railroads?

[ddechamp71]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3

What's far worse, IMHO, is the ardent European railfans I've come into contact with, especially on misc.transport.rail.americas (the newsgroup). They (and others like them) have permanently turned me off to European modeling with their attitude that everything in American railroading is second class compared to outside North America. Of course, you start talking about freight tonnage and they ignore you, but on every other subject, Europeans (according to them) have done it faster, cheaper, more efficient, more on time, and on a wider scale, than anything ever accomplished in North America (or so it seems). Maybe they're right, maybe not. But their smug attitude about it all drives me nuts... [:D]

Whatever you do you'll always have to face this type of behaviour...Myself as a "stinckin' cheese eater" (sorry, as a French!) I'm modelling UP and BNSF, and I feel isolated, twice as I'm modelling in Z scale. I love the feeling of heavy freight hauling that we miss so much in Europe...

Myself I came back to modelrailroading after seeing a SP 97-car coal train on the Tehachapi Loop at the beginning of 1997. I chose Z scale because I wanted to have close to prototype curves radii in my available room allocated to modelrailroading.

But not at all I want to emphasize this type of railroading vs european one among my fellow french prototype modellers...Everyone's his taste and center of interrest.

But I'll feel very happy if, when my layout is completed (if ever), french prototype modellers will exclaim over the sight of a 80-car modeltrain with heavy roadswitchers at the point and at the helper position.

Dominique

[PennsyHoosier]

I would only model the US. Having said that, I have traveled extensively by train in Great Britain and Australia. I loved the experience in both places. But the US is what I know.

[Paul3]

Never in a million years would I model anything outside of North America, or even the USA or the northeast, for that matter (other than cars for interchange).

I model the New Haven Railroad, which is my hometown railroad. Yep, I'm proud to be a Yankee (but a Red Sox fan), and I can drop my "R's" with the best of them. We've had 5 generations of family in this town (and 360 or so years in New England), and I don't have much interest in any RR outside of New England, let alone the world. It's possible that I could model a modern day RR, but I can't ever see me trying to model Cajon Pass, Altoona, or some grainger road. If I ever switched off of the NH, I'd be doing CR, MBTA and Amtrak before I'd do anything else.

Foreign roads? To me, ugly (with rare exceptions). Buffer plates, chains, bobbers, red underframes, dinky smoke deflectors, shapeless diesels, etc. Makes my skin crawl. [:)] Japanese Bullet Trains, the TGV and the X2000? Good looking machines. But on the whole, no thanks.

What's far worse, IMHO, is the ardent European railfans I've come into contact with, especially on misc.transport.rail.americas (the newsgroup). They (and others like them) have permanently turned me off to European modeling with their attitude that everything in American railroading is second class compared to outside North America. Of course, you start talking about freight tonnage and they ignore you, but on every other subject, Europeans (according to them) have done it faster, cheaper, more efficient, more on time, and on a wider scale, than anything ever accomplished in North America (or so it seems). Maybe they're right, maybe not. But their smug attitude about it all drives me nuts... [:D]

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Anonymous]

Like some posters have responded, "isn't my cup of tea" but I've always been interested in railroading across the world.

Many countries in Europe and Asia continued to use steam engines on the mainlines until the '70s. And in some cases, the '80s and beyond. I.E China.

Alvie.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aluesch

QUOTE: Originally posted by tajsbb

Yes. I'm currently building a Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) layout with a very scaled down Zurich HB (main station) at one end. My wife and I lived in Zurich for two years some time ago, and loved the rail system there. Modeling it keeps us close to one of our favorite parts of the world.

Tim Johnson, Tucson, AZ

Hey Tim.

SBB all the way, well along with some BLS, BT etc. There are some that claim European railroads are boring. I think the challenges of managing heavy mixed passenger and goods traffic alone makes for a more interesting railroad.
Boring electric locos, some said? To me, looking at a model of a heavy Swiss electric loco that in the early seventies was already capable of generating more than 10'000 horsepower gives me goose bumps. To be able to pull some heavy trains up the famous Gotthard line you could see 2 or 3 enignes on one train, talk about raw horsepower!

I'm also interested in a scaled down (very, very scaled down) version of the Zurich HB. Do you have a track plan you could send me?


Regards,
Art
http://www.mrsonline.net/

Why not go for Luzern instead? The station is smaller, yet still busy, plus you'd have the meter gauge LSE (Luzern Stans Engelberg) traffic as well. I'm sure BEMO stands ready to sell you all the narrow gauge equipment you want.

It's been nearly 20 years since I last visited Luzern, but I do have fond memories of standing at the end of one the station platforms watching trains come and go, usually hauled by Re4/4's with an occasional Ae4/7 (all gone now) on a local and the Re6/6's on the trains headed for the Gotthard Pass. But best of all was watching those E3/3's switching the station. Side rod electrics are the next best thing to steam.

Now see what you've done? I want to go back.

Andre

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tajsbb

Yes. I'm currently building a Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) layout with a very scaled down Zurich HB (main station) at one end. My wife and I lived in Zurich for two years some time ago, and loved the rail system there. Modeling it keeps us close to one of our favorite parts of the world.

Tim Johnson, Tucson, AZ

Hey Tim.

SBB all the way, well along with some BLS, BT etc. There are some that claim European railroads are boring. I think the challenges of managing heavy mixed passenger and goods traffic alone makes for a more interesting railroad.
Boring electric locos, some said? To me, looking at a model of a heavy Swiss electric loco that in the early seventies was already capable of generating more than 10'000 horsepower gives me goose bumps. To be able to pull some heavy trains up the famous Gotthard line you could see 2 or 3 enignes on one train, talk about raw horsepower!

I'm also interested in a scaled down (very, very scaled down) version of the Zurich HB. Do you have a track plan you could send me?


Regards,
Art
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[steveblackledge]

You can't beat modelling a foreign railroad, i love it, our club the Cavendish Association of Like Minded Modellers (C.A.L.M.) have members who model Japanese, Europeen and American in all scales, it's good to have a bit of variety. I model the BN in the eighties and my children (2 and 5 yrs) have a British Hornby layout underneath,,,,i live "over the pond" a foreigner you could say

[Anonymous]

Of course, why should we so so parochial as to restrict ourselves to our current location?

I built a model of a railway based on Southern Germany of the 20s during the nascent years of the Deutsche Reichsbahn, it has been exhibited around Europe and is very popular on the expo circuit in Germany. It is not Maerklin neither does it follow the stereotypical image of a 'German model railway' so perhaps that is why there are crowds around the layout at every exhibition?

Please take a look:

http://www.altezeitgruppe.com

[railman]

Prolly not.

[M636C]

yankeewjb,

The steam motive power in Vietnam was of French design, and consisted mainly of pacifics (4-6-2s) and mikados (2-8-2s) to the same general design, very French, like scaled down Chapelon pacifics on the French Nord railway, with big shaped smoke deflectors, ACFI feed water heaters and so on. Scaled down because the Vietnam railways are one metre gauge (about 39" compared to 56.5" standard gauge in France and the USA).

A number of the metre gauge mikados were built in China during the period of the war but to the exact French design..

There was a short standard gauge section built in the North connecting Hanoi to the Chinese standard gauge, and a number of light standard gauge mikados were provided by China. These were Chinese class JF6, known as GP6 in Vietnam. The new Bachmann HO Chinese SY 2-8-2 is very similar to these locomotives, and would give you a good start, along with Chinese box cars and the old green Chinese YZ22 coaches now available.

On the narrow (metre) gauge, the diesels were GE U6B, an export unit basically like a 70 ton switcher with a closer clearance cab. The passenger cars were a bit like the Chinese YZ22, but much smaller. A European TT scale model of a Russian car (they were made in Germany) would be as close as you would get.

Post war, they got Indian YDM4 metre gauge Alco locomotives. The closest you could get to this would be the Australian "48 class" model by "Powerline", an Australian manufacturer.

Basically, it wouldn't be easy - if you visit, the look of the trains will allow you to select existing models that would suit!

There was a Trains article, but is was back in the early 1960s.

Best of Luck,

Peter

[Junctionfan]

Japanese bullet trains would be interesting to model but I would want to have room for large radius' so I could run them prototypically fast.

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by yankeejwb

Actually, I would be interested in modeling a RR from Vietnam, ca., late 50's to early 60's. Never seen anything about RR operations there, but I know they exist. My guess is the equipment would have been Chinese. The interest comes from the fact that I plan on someday working there, teaching English. I'm curious if there are any VN vets in this forum that could pass along some info about Vietnamese RR's. Did anyone see any locos/stations/equipment while over there? It would definitely be different, but I'd love to try it if I can get some prototype info to start with.

I never saw any trains or even tracks, but saw 7.5 min quad maps (like USGS maps) that showed the rail lines. An army mag that was distributed to the troops (in 1968) had a short article with a few pictures on South Vietnams RR.

I searched the index of magazines and found two articles listed for Vietnam One in an 1966 RMC which I should have in my collection. I thought Trains had an article a few years ago, but the search didn't find one so I probably saw it somewhere else.

I pretty sure none of the equipment, that I've seen pictures of was Chinese.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I would be interested in modeling a RR from Vietnam, ca., late 50's to early 60's. Never seen anything about RR operations there, but I know they exist. My guess is the equipment would have been Chinese. The interest comes from the fact that I plan on someday working there, teaching English. I'm curious if there are any VN vets in this forum that could pass along some info about Vietnamese RR's. Did anyone see any locos/stations/equipment while over there? It would definitely be different, but I'd love to try it if I can get some prototype info to start with.

[darth9x9]

I would say that I wouldn't have an interest in modeling anything overseas. Now don get me wrong, I am quite impressed with the layouts that are modeled after overseas prototypes but it just isn't my cup of tea. It's no different than narrow gauge in the US. I have seen some incredible model work in narrow gauge but as I said, it isn't my cup of tea.

What really brought this fact to my attention was when I was in Europe for the Bosnia mission in 1997. I spent some time in Germany and my commute to work took me over a very long bridge which spanned a Germany railway hump yard. But never once did I have an interest in railfanning the yard or the hump operations; yet, I love to go to Cumberland, MD and watch the activities there.

For me, I guess it all goes back to you model what you grew up with.

[ATSFCLIFF]

I am living in Singapore and built two layouts based on US railroads. The previous as with the present are free lanced and my collection of engines and rolling stock are all US or Canadian. I just love the big diesels. You can view my small layout at:

http://cliffordconceicao3310.fotopic.net/c318742.html

[Anonymous]

I love the red running gear on German steam locomotives, I am in the process of building a Marklin Digital display layout to take to shows, the main running engine is a DB class 01.10 Super Pacific, with sound, running gear lights, and smoke. I love the triple headlights, smoke deflectors, and the beautifull running qualities of Marklin equipment. Espicaly the new C-sine motor in that locomotive. I set the layout in the Christmas time period with snow and the approiate celebrations going on. Cheers Mike in PA

[Anonymous]

Having lived in Germany (1968-1971), I traveled extensively by rail in Europe and have the highest respect for their rail system. I'm going back next spring and will enjoy the experience again. I'm seriously thinking about doing a European Z scale layout, maybe one of those briefcase types.[:D]

Doug

[boomer5344]

I own lots of Canadian and Mexican locomotives and rolling stock in N scale.
That's foreign.[:D]

Ok... I would model The German, Swiss and Austrian Railways. There are lots of great models in N from Fleischmann,Roco,Minitrix and Arnold/Lima/Rivarossi.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by METRO

Most of the pikes I have seen in MR and in person have been United States, Canadian or Mexican lines. However, a recient trip to the LHS got me looking at Kato's N-scale lineup and how many Japanese models they offer, not just in rolling stock but in structures, figures and vehicles as well. This got me thinking and I looked around a bit: There have been, as long as I can remember, tons of German and British-line imports but with recient releases from Bachman and Kato, Asian raliroads are starting to be avalible too.

I am thinking about using Kato N-scale equipment to build a small shelf layout set in Japan, and I was wondering if anyone else has thought about setting their layouts outside of the Americas?

Yes!!! In some aspects this hobby, I believe the UK railroads could be modeled to a more accurate perspective because of the size of their branch line railroads. I have toured many of the active steam Museum railroads in England and most have about fifteen miles or so of track and about six stations. They also run forward one direction and pull the train back in reverse. Same on turntable space and most of their yards are run around type. This type of operation could be copied end to end, in a smaller but very effective type of perspective.

When I visited York Museum, we were gathered around the turntable inside the building and the tour guide mentioned the Union Pacific Big Boy would be too large to fit on the table. I asked him the size of the table and it was barely long enough for one of our tenders. He wanted to know what size the Union Pacific used, and my answer was 125' and even some of the Union Pacific terminals used the largest 135' tables at a few of their roundhouses, really stunned them.

Enjoy whatever you model!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Reichsbahn

Yes, I model a "foreign" RR, the German Reichsbahn in the mid-1930s. Great steam engines with "Wagner" smoke deflectors, black locos with red running gear, lots of quite interesting passenger coaches, and very interesting (and different) freight cars. Lots of quality stuff available from Roco, Trix, Fleischmann, Piko, Liliput, etc. Operation includes a fair amount of passenger traffic. Of course, even the Reichsbahn had a diversity of "regional" and distinctive locos (Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon, etc.) So my Bavarian trains come in from the south and the Prussian & Saxon trains from the north. Trackwork is Peco & signals are Veissmann. Only "reservation" is that we who model the Reichsbahn need to keep the livery pre-1940 to avoid the Nazi stuff. Even though the stuff is available, I personally do not own and would not run Reichsbahn trains with the swastika for the same reason that US prototype modelers would not have a 1940s train station in the South with "colored" and "white" waiting rooms. So, expand your horizons - it's a big and interesting world-wide hobby.

The "Reichsbahn" (Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft = DRG / Deutsche Reichsbahn = DR) existed, under both private ownership and public ownership, from 1920 to 1945 (give or take a year or two, depending upon definitions and caveats, at both ends of the period -- which is known as "Era II" among model manufacturers). The *** came to power in 1933 -- after which the swastika (Hakenkreuz = twisted cross) was added to the already-existing corporate logo: the German imperial eagle (Reichsadler). However, "Era II" German-prototype model rolling stock after 1932 (produced by European firms such as TRIX, Maerklin, ROCO, Liliput, BRAWA, etc.) does NOT include the prototypically correct swastika (still much despised all over Europe): instead, a rather non-descript, undefined geometric design (looking much like a 4-leaf clover) fills the available space within the medallion suspended from the claws of the stylized imperial eagle. "Era II" is considered to be "The Golden Age" of railroading in Germany: high-speed streamlined steam locomotives pulling skirted passenger cars competed with high-speed streamlined diesel trainsets for the traveling public's attention (as well as railroad management's bottom-line satisfaction). And railroad electrification projects competed with both steam and diesel propulsion alternatives in the unending pursuit of greater speed, as well as improved economy, on the [then] largest and most efficient railroad in the entire world.

[BRAKIE]

No,Overseas railroads never interested me.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Reichsbahn

Yes, I model a "foreign" RR, the German Reichsbahn in the mid-1930s. Great steam engines with "Wagner" smoke deflectors, black locos with red running gear, lots of quite interesting passenger coaches, and very interesting (and different) freight cars. Lots of quality stuff available from Roco, Trix, Fleischmann, Piko, Liliput, etc. Operation includes a fair amount of passenger traffic. Of course, even the Reichsbahn had a diversity of "regional" and distinctive locos (Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon, etc.) So my Bavarian trains come in from the south and the Prussian & Saxon trains from the north. Trackwork is Peco & signals are Veissmann. Only "reservation" is that we who model the Reichsbahn need to keep the livery pre-1940 to avoid the Nazi stuff. Even though the stuff is available, I personally do not own and would not run Reichsbahn trains with the swastika for the same reason that US prototype modelers would not have a 1940s train station in the South with "colored" and "white" waiting rooms. So, expand your horizons - it's a big and interesting world-wide hobby.

The "Reichsbahn" (Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft = DRG / Deutsche Reichsbahn = DR) existed, under both private ownership and public ownership, from 1920 to 1945 (give or take a year or two, depending upon definitions and caveats, at both ends of the period -- which is known as "Era II" among model manufacturers). The *** came to power in 1933 -- after which the swastika (Hakenkreuz = twisted cross) was added to the already-existing corporate logo: the German imperial eagle (Reichsadler). However, "Era II" German-prototype model rolling stock after 1932 (produced by European firms such as TRIX, Maerklin, ROCO, Liliput, BRAWA, etc.) does NOT include the prototypically correct swastika (still much despised all over Europe): instead, a rather non-descript, undefined geometric design (looking much like a 4-leaf clover) fills the available space within the medallion suspended from the claws of the stylized imperial eagle. "Era II" is considered to be "The Golden Age" of railroading in Germany: high-speed streamlined steam locomotives pulling skirted passenger cars competed with high-speed streamlined diesel trainsets for the traveling public's attention (as well as railroad management's bottom-line satisfaction). And railroad electrification projects competed with both steam and diesel propulsion alternatives in the unending pursuit of greater speed, as well as improved economy, on the [then] largest and most efficient railroad in the entire world.

[Anonymous]

No absalutly not

[detting]

I have started collecting WWII European pieces in HO and Modern Japanese pieces in N. I just have to build the layouts to go around these items.

[wesleyp]

Yes, I would and have. A few years ago I built a small Briti***hemed N-scale layout but had to dismantle it during a move. Still have the equipment and keep on looking for an opportunity to bring it out and build another layout. If I had the space I would build two layouts (small size for ease of construction and operation); one set in the British Isles with a LMS theme (gotta love those maroon engines and cars) the other set in New England (though I am torn as to where in New England I'd set it as I have a love affair with three different roads, the New Haven, Boston & Maine, and Maine Central). [:)]

There is something about foreign, especially European, railways that just makes them very attractive. Whether it is the extensive passenger workings or the scenery they make a compelling case for modelling. Could be that I have been influenced by those shows on PBS such as Swiss Rail Journeys and the like but I still find them fascinating. Not to put down American railroading as they are just as fascinating, if in a different manner.

Wesley

[Anonymous]

[?]i need some bulsar wood beacause i have been making models out of plastic for about 3 years [i would like to know wear to get some from][?]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bigboy4015

True in former times but today ? Neee!!

The RR market is a worldwide business! Alsthom and Bombardier have plants in Europe and USA / Canada. EMD sells a lot of Engines to Europe in the last years (Germany, Netherlands and UK) (...)

Well, there are here still more new European locomotives on the tracks than new American locomotives. Yes, the EMD Class 66 is very popular, but mainly amongst small companies. And Bombardier bought European train builders. That doesn't make their products American.

Of course, the train business is a global business. But it has always been that way in a sense, starting with British steam engines for the US in the 19th century. And the engines and freight cars from the US Army, left here in Europe after WW II. One of our most beloved engines is an American design. But generally speaking, I think that you can say that the US and Europe have their own trains. Unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mathieuholland

QUOTE: Originally posted by METRO

On the subject of why there are so few US trains on overseas lines, I would think that weight would have much to do with it.(...)

Well, I think that there are other reasons:

* There are enough European train building companies like Alstom, Siemens, Vossloh, Talgo etc. Why should you buy a train on an other continent?
* National pride?
* American engines are large. Many European railroads are electrified: there is hardly any room for such a large locomotive under the catenary.
* European railroads are more focused on passenger traffic than freight. Strong eninges like American ones are not nessecary: passenger trains are not so heavy and require different type of traction. And European builders have a lot of experience in this. And the freight trains are not as long as in de US, thus less heavy.

True in former times but today ? Neee!!

The RR market is a worldwide business! Alsthom and Bombardier have plants in Europe and USA / Canada.
EMD sells a lot of Engines to Europe in the last years (Germany, Netherlands and UK) The new loco for the royal train in UK is an EMD!!! And EMD have a
GETS was a partner of Henschel (now Bombardier) in Kassel / Germany - The BlueTiger is a redesigned Dash7 in many parts! And Henschel use EMD diesel-engines too !!!

• The AC Parts in EMD´s SD70MAC are from Siemens
• The GE Genesis truck was designed by Krupp in Essen / Germany
• GE´s 6000 hp diesel was designed by MWM DEUTZ in Mannheim / Germany
• NJT´s new ALP 46 were built by Bombardier in Kassel - the body were built in Poland - and the basicdesign is a German Highspeed electro.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by METRO

On the subject of why there are so few US trains on overseas lines, I would think that weight would have much to do with it.(...)

Well, I think that there are other reasons:

* There are enough European train building companies like Alstom, Siemens, Vossloh, Talgo etc. Why should you buy a train on an other continent?
* National pride?
* American engines are large. Many European railroads are electrified: there is hardly any room for such a large locomotive under the catenary.
* European railroads are more focused on passenger traffic than freight. Strong eninges like American ones are not nessecary: passenger trains are not so heavy and require different type of traction. And European builders have a lot of experience in this. And the freight trains are not as long as in de US, thus less heavy.