R-T-R vs KITS

[Anonymous]

[%-)] Clue me in here folks. Do you buy Ready To Roll models because no kit is offered for that model, you doubt your skills or lack the tools to assemble a particular kit, don't have the time, no patience or what? Has R-T-R become popular just because it's there?

At recent trip to my LHS I noticed the sock person loading up the shelf with pre-built Model Power structures. The shelf was rather lacking in kits compared to what they use to stock. Most often what was stocked is now special ordered. I also notice on line model railroad suppliers catalogs carry less kits and more R-T-R items. Is this trend for instant gratification related to lack of skills, lack of time or just impatience? Or is is some dumb @$$ market research group telling manufacturers what we want? [sigh]

I find It's getting more difficult to locate Athearn kits, other than eBay, at on line model RR dealers. Many of them switched to selling R-T-R stuff. Anyone else notice this? [V]

Stores only have so much shelf space, so something has to go to make room for the pre-built models which take up considerable space. Are the LHS owners being told this is what we want or are we buying R-T-R because we have no choice or what? What's happening at your LHS? [%-)]
The only manufacturer that I can think of that offers us the most choice between their locomotives as Ready To Roll or Kit is Model Die Cast - Roundhouse. [tup]

[2c] The strange thing is, most kits are not difficult to assemble and they save us money to buy more kits. Also, how many of you paint and letter undecorated kits?

[Anonymous]

I buy RTR locomotives, and sometimes RTR rolling stock, but I think I prefer kit rolling stock over RTR rolling stock. I've only built two kits (Athearn Blue Boxes) and not only are they fun to build, but they look good and run great!

[CP5415]

I prefer kits to RTR, but I have bought both.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

I have an Atlas RTR International BN caboose and N.P. Hopper. I have one Athearn RTR N.P. wide vision caboose and that is all. Locos are a differant matter as there are so few kit locos available. It becomes even more difficult, when you settle on a rail line that has few offerings on the market.

I have made a consious decision not to buy anymore RTR rolling stock, as I am diametrically opposed to what the RTR stuff is doing to the availability of kits. I don't believe it when people say; They don't have the time or patience to build a shake the box (to build) kit and don't understand why you would pay so much more for RTR. However, these folks are driving the market and manufacturers will do as the market demands. I likely have more than all the cars I will ever need, so this issue is becoming moot for me.

I can see a time when it may be justified/necessary to drop the "Model" from the Model Railroading Hobby.

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by deschane

I don't believe it when people say; They don't have the time or patience to build a shake the box (to build) kit and don't understand why you would pay so much more for RTR. However, these folks are driving the market and manufacturers will do as the market demands.
I can see a time when it may be justified/necessary to drop the "Model" from the Model Railroading Hobby.

Let's remember, we're all different. Some people don't feel like building a kit but do like to watch trains run. I personally don't have the patience to spend weeks and months on scratch building a structure, super detailing, etc. The Athearn Blue Box or MDC kit is about as much as I want to model. If I had the available cash, I would load up on Athearn Genesis Box cars, etc.

I like to model but I do have other interests as well so I can say that I don't have that much time. We all have different priorities and interests and we all spend our time accordingly.

Sean

[Big_Boy_4005]

I can't really chose one here. Our hobby is "model railroading". I perfer to model the railroad, and buy the cars and engines. Then I can spend my time simulating operation, or modeling the surroundings, like scenery and structures. I enjoy scratch building structures, I don't enjoy scratch building trains.

[Noah Hofrichter]

I by all building kits, and mostly kits for rolling stock, but I do buy some R-T-R cars. I've painted my own locomotive, but only because the paint scheme I wanted wasn't comericialy avalible.

Noah

[METRO]

Kits all the way

[Anonymous]

I wasn't sure how to vote. I buy locos RTR, rolling stock in kit form and scratchbuild structures and scenery. I detail the locos with scratchbuilt pieces, if a detail kit is not available. I do the rolling stock kits so that I can weight 'em as I build 'em, replace bad trucks, replace plastic wheelsets with metal, and most of all I enjoy building the kits. I have kitbashed some structures in the past but enjoy the challenge of scratchbuilding them more. For scenery I find most of the "ready to use" stuff to look "toy like" so scratchbuild it all.

[Jetrock]

yeh, I do all three as well. Buying used rolling stock, I suppose, counts as "ready-to-roll", and quite a few Athearn and Intermountain "shake-the-box" kits, but I never buy pre-built structures and prefer to scratchbuild or kitbash my structures where I can't find just the right kit. For me, building the kit is most of the fun.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Snake

...I wasn't sure how to vote. I buy locos RTR, rolling stock in kit form and scratchbuild structures and scenery....

I understand Snake's situation. Because we are all in the same boat. If we want a particular loco, we generally buy what is available, which most often is Ready To Roll right out of the box.
For the purposes of this question lets say locos in Athearn blue box are kits. You still have to mount the couplers, handrails and side frame brake cylinders. And if you prefer, apply paint and decals.
Here's an example of what I ment by IF you had a choice.
Lets say Acme Model Trains offer a highly detailed SD60 in ready to roll for $100 and $80 for the kit . With the ready to roll model you just open the box and set the loco on the track and go. With the kit, you apply the detail parts like air lines, hand rails, horns, ect and mount the couplers and shell to the chassis. Nothing hard. No holes to drill. Would you spend the extra $20 to have it assembled for you?

I think it's kind of like when turnouts and flex track was introduced. The majority of modelers in the early years of the hobby hand laid track and turnouts. Today very few modelers practice handlaying. But we still have a choice. You can still get pre-cut ties and even turnout kits. Only thing is, the stuff to do it with is not sitting on the shelf at the LHS.

I was beginning to wonder if the hobby was turning another corner and kits were becoming old hat.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brothaslide

QUOTE: Originally posted by deschane

I don't believe it when people say; They don't have the time or patience to build a shake the box (to build) kit and don't understand why you would pay so much more for RTR. However, these folks are driving the market and manufacturers will do as the market demands.
I can see a time when it may be justified/necessary to drop the "Model" from the Model Railroading Hobby.

Let's remember, we're all different. Some people don't feel like building a kit but do like to watch trains run. I personally don't have the patience to spend weeks and months on scratch building a structure, super detailing, etc. The Athearn Blue Box or MDC kit is about as much as I want to model. If I had the available cash, I would load up on Athearn Genesis Box cars, etc.

I like to model but I do have other interests as well so I can say that I don't have that much time. We all have different priorities and interests and we all spend our time accordingly.

Sean

Peace baby! I don't mean to start a war. I'm just trying to figure out why manufacturers are making more bult-up and ready to roll items.
Are more model railroaders buying R-T-R in such quanities to motivate manufacturers into providing them, if so why? If not, is it more profitable for them to do so?
One of the things the company I work for does is market research. Have you ever wondered why we have vehicles that have more things in them to go wrong? It's because just a hand full of people was shown some gimmicky device and they said they would buy it.

[rayhippard]

Hi everyone ! These are some of my thoughts and observations over the past 50 years of being interested [ and at times totally absorbed ] in HO. We have really come a long way from 1950's "kits" when we got some wood pieces,wire,dummy cast metal couplers,parts to assemble trucks and maybe some decals to apply if we were successfull in making a presentable model. By the way, you had to buy your own glue,paint and brushes [ no air brushes were available ] to finish your prize model. Engines were hard to find in any form and RTR brass engines cost about $50.00 each at a time when average pay was $75.00 to $100.00 per week before taxes. Also these engines were not usually very good runners and came in unpainted brass. Moving along through the years,Athearn came out with their classic F-units painted and RTR. Sometimes the rubber bands broke, but they were easy to replace. Their "shake the box" kits were another major step forward and they rose to be the dominant maker. Many small and large manufacturers over the years have made available to us some great and not so great items. THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS - BE HAPPY WITH THE WEALTH OF PRODUCTS THAT WE HAVE TO CHOOSE FROM TODAY !!!! I like the fine detail on some of the new RTR engines and cars that are a bargain when compared to the brass counterparts today. I know I could not put on some of these delicate parts without messing them up ! Just for those of you who think I'm a klutz, I've done lots of scratch and kit building over the years and enjoyed the challange. This goes back to the saying "enjoy the hobby any way you like" because it's your hobby. We all will be heard by the manufacturers today by what we buy. This is our vote on what we want, so buy what you like and the rest will go in the "close out sale bin" at the LHS . Thanks for your "ear" and I hope more new products come out as fast as they have been so everyone can have a choice of their favorite item or road name. P.S. Mine is GREAT NORTHERN both EMPIRE and SKY BLUE paint schemes. Ray

[cjcrescent]

I guess you can say I don't understand RTR or as I call it RTMR (ready to make run). With extremely few exceptions, (five to be exact), all of my cars and locos are kit builts or heavily rebuilt and repainted by me. Even the brass I own was never factory painted and all have at the very least recieved new gearing and motors prior to running on the layout. I get more satisfaction from a model when I can say its truly mine, I made it, rather than I bought it. For me it is sometimes disappointing to go on a layout tour at a convention and see basically the same models, cars and locos, all in the same paint scheme and numbered the same, on three or four different layouts, as well as the same structures, these just painted/weathered differently.

But that is why this hobby is so great. What I like may not necessarily be what you like. What works for me, may not work for you. I have never criticized someone whose equipment is all RTR, and I would expect that same respect for my attempts as well. Its just for me RTR is really not an option.

[cjcrescent]

Ray;
I agree with what you say about the kits from the fifties. After finishing one of those, you really felt you did accomplish something! Just try putting together an old Ulrich all-metal Hopper kit from that time, and not have access to any adhesives other than Goo, or an epoxy that not only smelled to high heaven but took two or three days to cure. I heard that some modellers soldered these kits together using Salmet, but I couldn't afford a soldering iron then.

[IRONROOSTER]

I enjoy scratch building, kit building, and buy a fair amount of RTR. In S scale it is rare to have a choice, so I buy what's available. The time is a factor to me. Until I get the layout a little further along I'm running mostly RTR with a few kits. But I am collecting parts and kits for building later on. I plan to scratchbuild what's not available which in S scale is truss rod cars (I have a real weakness for these, but there are very few kits or RTR).
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

I prefer kits because the so-called R-T-R stuff isn't. With kits I can build to suit my needs, i.e., a particular prototype. The R-T-R stuff is a model of one particular thing, and does not represent the modifications made over the years.

[Anonymous]

I was just about to start a thread on kit building when I saw this. I just went to the LHS today, and I can't go uot of that place until I buy a Red Caboose, Branchline, or Bowser car kit. When you don't have a layout and no friend's layout to run your trains on, building kits is the funnest thing to do. Not only are kits funner than just pulling a R-T-R model out of the box and putting it on the layout, but they cost less, and the majority (except Life Like) are made in the USA!

[Anonymous]

Brothaslide, I didn't take what you re-butted to me as an act of war. We're all entitled to our opinions. Big Boy 4005 is in basic agreement with your position, also. My concern is not the fact that people are choosing to buy RTR, it is the fact that because of this, RTR may eventually supplant kits, which I would view with real sadness! If only kits were available, I would be happy as a lark! To me the hobby is the "modeling"! If my layout was done, I would be looking at ways to change, enlarge or make it better. If the "modeling" aspect of the hobby wasn't there, I wouldn't be here! I don't care that there will still be resin kits as I don't want to pay $35.00 for one.

[Eriediamond]

Hey y'all (southern for hello to all of you'ins), My thoughts pretty much parallel Ray's replies above. Since I am modeling a branch of the Erie RR in HO scale, locos and rolling stock are scarce so I buy for the Erie logo but, and there is always a "but" to everything, I do enjoy building kits. Like Ray (maybe), after 50 some years of modeling, the "craftsman" type kit is becoming harder for me to build ( the parts are getting smaller)?? Also my job as an over the road trucker leaves little time for modeling, I don't have that hour or two in the evenings build. I do, however, miss the locomotive kits that came "semi assembled". Now for an observation. I think the main reason we are seeing less kits and more RTR models is not the lack of skill, patience, etc., If you notice, there is a lot of references back to the 40's and 50's and therein lies the key to the whole thing here. Back then, life was slower and not so many things to take up our liesure time. Families lived in the same area and life was centered around the home and we mostly had to to make our own entertainment. To some, it was model railroading. Yes, today we still enjoy our hobby, but some don't have the time for it like we did back then. This may be a little over the top, but to some, "quality time" with the kids is in the car while transporting them to their places of interests. On the same note, if we want the time with or families we usually spend a lot of time away from home. I don't mean to imply that its bad, only to say that the life style back 50 years ago was a lot different, with the time build kits. Also need to remember that back then we were still recovering from the war and money was really tight for manufacturers and consumers alike, hence a lot of kits, and a lot of those kits meant a lot of file work, sanding and trial fitting to build them. Well, I've rattled on enough here. Everone have a happy Easter.

[Anonymous]

I simply buy RTR when no kit is available for what I want. In N-scale, that basically means that most of my rolling stock and engines are RTR. I have no pre-built structures.

BTW Gary, your website link sez "No Home Page Found".

---jps

[AggroJones]

If kit form mean saving money, give me the kit! I would only prefer R-T-R if it was some compliacted structure (the only thing I have problems building). Kit form is almost always the best because you actually have to use some skill to build them. [:0]

[Anonymous]

The only R-T-R that I buy is locos, there just isn't that many good quality loco kits out there. As far as rolling stock goes I only buy kits ( I prefer the resin kits).
I get a lot of pleasure out of building the kits. I just hope that the manufactureres of resin kits don't get into the R-T-R business.

[Dayliner]

Hard to answer this one, as R-T-R, kit-building/bashing and scratch-building all seem to have a place on my layout. Very little of my rolling stock goes on to the layout straight from the box, although sometimes it's fun just to open the box and get something running right away. On the other hand, cost factors and the fact that I model a specific prototype mean that at the very least I buy undec and paint/letter it. I do have some kits and have spent a fair bit of time modifying and repainting old R-T-R stuff. As far as structures go, it's all kits or scratchbuilt--the built-ups look too toy-like for my taste. I like showing off the stuff I've worked on the most, so I guess my preference is for kits over R-T-R versions of the same model.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't R-T-R stand for Ready-To-Rebuild? [(-D]

[timthechef]

I like kits. I've just started in the hobby 2 years ago after wanting to all my life. as my layout progesses I plan to do more (all my buildings are kits and so is my rolling stock) kit building and even scratch building. The RTR structures I've seen don't look real to me (one of my sayings is Life like isn't). All my loco's are RTR but I plan to kit build any additional. I wi***here where more Steam engine kits available. One thing I have noticed at my LHS is that kids getting into the hobby tend to buy RTR, but I think that as they get older if they stay in the hobby they will move to scratch or kit building.

[orsonroy]

Since I've joined the ranks of "get it closer to the prototype" modelers, almost NOTHING offered in this hobby is RTR. I'm in HO, where we have a wealth of products, and I still need to do things to get models up to my standards. Usually, it's little things like handrails, cut levers and repack dates, but sometimes it's entire roofwalks, doors, or ends that need to be upgraded. And every one of my steam engines will be spending lots of time on the workbench, having extra details added, new tenders built, and generally broght up to photographic quality (if you can see it, you can model it!).

Because of this, I really prefer when things come out in kit form. I have bought a few freight cars (and most of the modern steam that's out there) as RTR products, but only when I have to. Give me high-end kits any day.

And I do quite a bit of structure scratchbuilding too. It's generally cheaper than buying a kit, and you can have exactly the right building for your vision.

[Anonymous]

Kits seem to be the best option. I mean some of the RTR look cheap.
Besides I've built models most my life.
(thats how I got into MODEL railroading)

[on30francisco]

I do all three; ready to run, kits, and scratchbuilding.

[BRAKIE]

I use both kit and RTR cars so I can have a well rounded out freight car roster.
I prefer RTR lately because I am burnt out on building kits and more into operation.[:D]