Modern AmeriGas propane facility in Buford, GA:
Here is a link to the interactive Live Maps where you can zoom in/out, rotate, etc.:
AmeriGas Buford, GA
Jamie
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Last Chance I have actually enjoyed building the plastruct propane horizonal model in HO scale. I think I might still have a photo somewhere in my backup media. But the robin's egg blue paint I put on it is well... not exactly MANLY ya know? LOL. Maybe next time I build something like that, I put white on it.
I have actually enjoyed building the plastruct propane horizonal model in HO scale. I think I might still have a photo somewhere in my backup media. But the robin's egg blue paint I put on it is well... not exactly MANLY ya know? LOL. Maybe next time I build something like that, I put white on it.
That’s funny that you mentioned the color, because I was just discussing this with my wife. I had to remind her of the propane outfit in town that paints all of their tanks and trucks light blue. In fact it may very well be robin's egg blue.
I was looking at the Plastruct Twin Horizontal Propane Tanks and I think I can make them out of ¾ “ wood dowels since I can’t buy them anywhere.
garya Here's a thread I replied to about a year ago, with some pictures: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/52268/1293574.aspx#1293574
Here's a thread I replied to about a year ago, with some pictures:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/52268/1293574.aspx#1293574
Thanks Gary, I think I can do something like what's shown in the photos.
Last Chance I hope I never hear the word Bleve where we are.
I hope I never hear the word Bleve where we are.
Wow, I had to look that one up. I never heard the word “Bleve” before. I probably will not have room on my little N-scale layout to handle all those safety regulations, LOL.
I have decided to model my station (or whatever the correct terminology is) after Photograph 1 and Photograph 3. I ordered the Plastruct Twin Horizontal Propane Tanks and the Heljan Diesel Fueling & Sanding Complex. I’m going to kit bash the Fueling & Sanding Complex into two kits, one for a sanding complex in my maintenance yard and the other into a Propane distribution facility. There just isn't anything availble for N-Scale.
The cornerstone Interstate Fuel & Oil would work for the loading of tank trucks, but you also need the rail loading facilities they make as well. As I recall they are not that expensive, and they fit together for a longer facility. Again, the horizontal tanks typically are for the propane, the vertical for liquid fuels.
Propane is not storage friendly, unless it is put into an underground salt dome. Otherwise it is in the spherical/bullet tanks as it is under pressure. Your typical dealer does not have facilities to store a large quantity, and will pay the underground storage terminals to hold their propane underground until needed - and then it is piped or delivered by t/c or t/t.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Gary
Ive done alot of digging into tank cars recently trying to hammer out details for my fictional bearing works.
I have Athearn to blame for those wonderful tank cars that they have been releasing these days.
Some of those NTSB Reports are interesting reading. I think NS had a problem in Kentucky where a tank car was pulled apart because the welds or metal failed in the middle spilling everything down on the ground requiring a 800 meter isolation.
Heck, a dip into my 2000 trucking hazmat book shows some items require a 5 mile downwind evac or LOS (Line of sight, whichever is greater) I have no idea what 2008 looks like having been out of the hazmat game for a long time, good riddiance too.
Ive learned to google for PDF's by topic. That usually digs up a nugget here and there.
Last ChanceHere are several more. http://home.comcast.net/~pchristou/silhoutes.pdf
Here are several more.
http://home.comcast.net/~pchristou/silhoutes.pdf
I was just looking for that on the US Fire Administration's website. Apparently they removed it.
Here are a couple of NTSB accident reports that tell about the loading and unloading process.
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1998/HZM9801S.pdf
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/HZM0201.pdf
Here are a couple of brochures that show the valves.
http://nar.aar.com/nar/pdfs/ref-material/nar-english_lgp_tankcar.pdf
http://www.midlandmfg.net/documents/midland/sales/pressure-railcar-brochure.pdf
Aerial photographs of loading/unloading facilities
Photograph 1
Photograph 2
Photograph 3
Photograph 4
Also, if you can get the July 1998 issue of Firehouse (or sign up for their website) the Kingman, AZ BLEVE article described the unloading procedure.
http://cms.firehouse.com/print/Hazardous-Materials/The-Kingman-Rail-Car-BLEVE/18$1430
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
mobilman44 The terminal loaded both tank cars and tank trucks. The trucks were loaded via hoses, and the tank cars were loaded in a similar manner. The Cornerstone oil loading rack would easily work. I have two melded together and it does the job.
The terminal loaded both tank cars and tank trucks. The trucks were loaded via hoses, and the tank cars were loaded in a similar manner. The Cornerstone oil loading rack would easily work. I have two melded together and it does the job.
Hi Mobilman44,
I have a Cornerstone Interstate Fuel & Oil that I haven’t opened yet, is that what you are talking about? I didn’t know if it would work.
I also stumbled upon a Walthers Central Gas & Supply and I ordered it last night. I don’t know if they really have it or not, because they are discontinued and out of stock everywhere that I looked. I don’t know how many things I’ve ordered that ended up unavailable, so I guess I’ll find out if it’s what I think it is or not.
Hi!
Propane was a big part of my work world from 1966 thru 2006 when I retired. In addition to stints at refineries, I made several visits to Mobil's (sold in 2003) Hattiesburg Mississippi propane underground storage and terminal. It was a really neat place, and the folks that ran it took great pride in their "home".
This terminal is connected to the Dixie P/L which runs from Texas thru the southeast to Virginia. The terminal has 'bullet" shaped tanks for above ground storage, which are horizontal tanks with rounded ends. The vast bulk of the propane is stored underground in salt formations. The salt domes work by pumping in water which pushes the gas up, or pumping in the gas which pushes brine up.
Note that propane is a "gas liquid", meaning it is stored and transported as a liquid - under pressure - but quickly goes to a gaseous state as it hits the atmosphere. So your storage tanks are either bullet shaped or spheres - and NOT vertical "can" like tanks.
Hope that helps!
Last Chance Here are several more. http://home.comcast.net/~pchristou/silhoutes.pdf Overview of tankcar types and useful tidbits. Just enough knowledge to make you a armed and dangerous researcher of model tank cars. http://archive.xstrata.com/norfalco/www.norfalco.com/documents/NorFalco_H2SO4TechBrochure.pdf Mostly acids but there is much about manways and stuff. I had a PDF related to IAFF Tankcar fittings, domes and other stuff that pertains to those tank cars that have caught fire or otherwise have accidents for responders, but could not track back to the source on the internet. I will continue to see if I can find it online. DOT had several documents that now have a error 404 and I will think they are gone now.
Overview of tankcar types and useful tidbits. Just enough knowledge to make you a armed and dangerous researcher of model tank cars.
http://archive.xstrata.com/norfalco/www.norfalco.com/documents/NorFalco_H2SO4TechBrochure.pdf
Mostly acids but there is much about manways and stuff.
I had a PDF related to IAFF Tankcar fittings, domes and other stuff that pertains to those tank cars that have caught fire or otherwise have accidents for responders, but could not track back to the source on the internet. I will continue to see if I can find it online.
DOT had several documents that now have a error 404 and I will think they are gone now.
Thanks Last Chance,
I just spent hours looking over Spookshows stuff and got a lot of great ideas. I really got to hand it to him. He has done a great job of documenting and sharing his ideas. I wish I would have looked at them sooner. I believe I saw some of his stuff a few years ago, but I wasn’t interested in refineries at that time and I forgot about it.
There is a drawing and photos in the NorFalco TechBrochure showing the tank piping that helped clear up some questions I had on the piping and a photo showing the actual filling of tank cars which is really helpful.
I don’t know how you find this stuff, I’ve been looking for a couple of weeks without any luck.
Tank cars designed for pressurized loads like propane and butane had small domes with fittings for loading and unloading. Their small domes needn't serve as expansion domes as seen on cars designed to carry liquids.
Mark
The initial volume (there are three so far now) in Kalmbach's series on The Model Railroader's Guide to Industries Along the Tracks has on page 24 a photograph of a tank car being loaded with butane or propane. The car is shown with multiple flexible hoses connected to dome fittings.
I appreciate your compliments towards the tank model, but I just wiped the dust off it, and painted the base a bit more earth to blend into future scenery as well as restoring the shack's aluminum roof. The builder of the tank is the one who did the work LOL.
I had thought very hard about ladders and saferacks. I learned that rail cars without platforms on them must have man ladders and platforms provided for them. So... I sort of cheated and bought only tank cars WITH platforms AND Ladders ALREADY on them so I DONT HAVE to build ladders, platforms etc. HOWEVER... there might be a ladder and a small "what'sit" crane to hold the necessary hoses and caps.
There was a man who built a refinery in all glory in N scale no less. Here is the site.
Overview page.
http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/layouts.html
Refinery Layout Page.
http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/layout3.php
The Modular Industry Page that gave me insight on these durn walthers franken kits.
http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/layout4a.php
I think if I had to build a complete refinery with ALL of the piping and valving to the correct tanks, towers, crackers and flame stacks etc.... the last thing you will hear from or about me is my commitment involuntarily to a sanitarium. Some things just ought not to be attempted if one must be sane LOL.
ericsp I remembered a thread a while ago where someone posted a link to a loading rack manufacturer (http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/143823/1599361.aspx#1599361). There are no photographs of LPG loading, but there is one of sulfur dioxide, which is also a hazardous gas. http://www.saferack.com/single-car-hatch-railcar-loading-racks.cfm
I remembered a thread a while ago where someone posted a link to a loading rack manufacturer (http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/143823/1599361.aspx#1599361). There are no photographs of LPG loading, but there is one of sulfur dioxide, which is also a hazardous gas.
http://www.saferack.com/single-car-hatch-railcar-loading-racks.cfm
Thanks ericsp, the saferack is perfect nice photos. Between the “safe rack” and UK information that LastChance had, I should come up with something realy cool.
Thanks again.
Last Chance Here is one I found some time ago. http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/petrol.htm I fought for and paid dearly for a old fairly intact Kibri Butane gas storage tank that was reasonably good enough to go with the gas house. I was NOT going to try and build one of those myself. Ive snapped many of those crappy Model Power tank kits already.
Here is one I found some time ago.
http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/petrol.htm
I fought for and paid dearly for a old fairly intact Kibri Butane gas storage tank that was reasonably good enough to go with the gas house. I was NOT going to try and build one of those myself. Ive snapped many of those crappy Model Power tank kits already.
Wow thanks, this is great info! I think it’s going to help a lot.
This all got started because I saw a model refinery with lots of piping and I always wanted to do something with pipes. A refinery was a little too large for my layout so I was trying to come up with something else. Then saw the tank cars while searching the Atlas site for Mechanical Reefer cars and thought this is perfect, except that I didn’t know what a station would look like.
I like the looks of multiple pipes all flowing and bending through a maze of structures. I plan to use various sizes of copper wire and PVC End Caps to build a small gas facility.
I also like the chain link fence, I’m wondering if that has something to do with grounding for static electricity. I’m getting real excited now and can’t wait to get started.
By the way, the Kibri Butane gas storage tank does look very nice.
About halfway down is about gas in pressure with pictures. I will be attempting to adapt this UK information to my own gas house with a little bit of Americanization here and there within the limitations of my skills... if any found. LOL.
I was given a shot of a facility near NW of Washington DC that buried gas underground under pressure. It was located near the Subway Metro's Red Line Tracks. I have intentionally misplace or lost the picture from my machine after committing it to memory. A terror group would love to get to it. So let's not even take this thread off topic by going there.
There was a shot I recall on the OML that had a lonely tankcar inside a fence surrounded by smaller vessals like those found firing stoves or fireplaces in homes and campers.
There is a MP Line that had or used to have a spur in my county near one of the towns. There was several places in the area and one was a Gas facility with a great big old pressure tank similar to the walthers kit.
Edit. I didnt realize you were in N scale.
Ebay occasionally has kits availible for a cost from time to time. Some of the OOP Kits are outrageous and should be a wake up call to Walthers, having sold for 6 times retail at times.
I only have the 4 atlas 11K gas pressure tank cars for now. But I have deliberately designed my own gas house in preparation to recieve one 33K whale or two 62 foot athearn Consolidated Gas Tank Cars at some point in the future, if those durn things ever get released in RTR.
The foundation for the structure is not yet built, and the unloading gantries not yet built. The two tankers were deliberately switched so that they are not touching each other during unloading. A sort of fun way to vary the tedium of shoving cars to and from the same spots all the time. There is a magnet under the spur near by that makes it painless. At some point in the future it will be sceniked and completed as part of the industry that uses gas to heat molten salt for tempering and other uses such as providing individual heaters that hang in the ceiling of large workbays. You know the ones that makes you all warm when you work under one all day in a chilly workshop.
cacole Wikipedia has lots of information about the sources, transportation, and storage of Propane. There may be something useful to you here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane#Sources
Wikipedia has lots of information about the sources, transportation, and storage of Propane. There may be something useful to you here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane#Sources
Thanks, but I already checked Wikipedia out. I found a lot of stuff on both LPG and Liquid Natural Gas, but nothing connecting either with Trains. I did find some great stuff on loading ships, only I don’t have room for a harbor. I specified Propane but I don’t think it would make any difference if it was Natural Gas.
I changed my search criteria and found a “Rail Car Loading Station” in Austria, but it looks a little bigger and more complicated than I was hoping for. I’m going to continue to look for something a little smaller. Maybe I can modify it a little or change it to a delivery station instead of a loading station.
I decided to buy a small fleet of N-scale 33,000 Gallon Tank Cars and add a spur to scratch build a Propane filling station. I originally thought of purchasing a Cornerstone Series(R) Central Gas & Supply, but I guess they are not available anymore in N scale. I have been searching the internet for photos of an actual filling operation to get an idea of what it looks like.
I found some photos like at the Kentuckybluegas facility but nothing showing the equipment used to fill a tank car. The Walthers photo of the Central Gas & Supply doesn’t show enough to help.
Does anybody have any photos or information that I could use?