Hey what happened to the "Thank-you Joe Fugate" thread?

[BlueHillsCPR]

As if I didn't know....

 

I kill me...

Anyway...I let Joe know you were all thinking of him and he appreciates all of your kind words guys.

Regards,

Kevin

[loathar]

That whole situation is really a cryin shame.

[BlueHillsCPR]

loathar

That whole situation is really a cryin shame.

 

In so many ways.  It's probably all my fault. 

[da_kraut]

 Hi Kevin,

the forum overlords brought their draconian laws into effect.  They send me an email and here is what it said:

"Subject: Thank you Joe Fugate

Reason: 
This responses of this post are going off-topic and has nothing to do with the 
hobby.

Thank you,
Trains.com Forums"

So the moral of the story is that it is OK to advertise bad vendors and businesses that have horrible 

customer service but you are not allowed to praise anybody for their great effort and product.  Since we 

discussed his videos I thought that they dealt with the hobby, maybe I am missing something here. 

STRANGE.

Frank 

 

[rogerhensley]

da_kraut

So the moral of the story is that it is OK to advertise bad vendors and businesses that have horrible

customer service but you are not allowed to praise anybody for their great effort and product.  Since we 

discussed his videos I thought that they dealt with the hobby, maybe I am missing something here. 

Frank 

 

Really?

I hadn't noticed that any advertising was permitted. Perhaps I just didn't see the advertisements. 

 

 

[BlueHillsCPR]

rogerhensley

da_kraut

So the moral of the story is that it is OK to advertise bad vendors and businesses that have horrible

customer service but you are not allowed to praise anybody for their great effort and product.  Since we 

discussed his videos I thought that they dealt with the hobby, maybe I am missing something here. 

Frank 

 

Really?

I hadn't noticed that any advertising was permitted. Perhaps I just didn't see the advertisements. 

 

 

 

It used to be ok to praise Joe's work but that has changed.  I like the way hairs are split over off topic posts.  If you want to talk about the economy, the election, or any number of other topics that's fine because that is all model railroad related...somehow? but if you want to discuss Joe Fugates MRR videos that is an off topic discussion. 

Actually, the thread in question was not advertising but links to and discussions about model railroad manufacturers, hobby shops, etc. are fine...unless they are one of Joe's endeavors.  Those threads get pulled.

Bergie, aka MRR have even accused me of working for Joe...whom I only know from this forum, who has never given me anything but good advice, who has asked me on more than one occasion to not stir up trouble on the MRR forum... and for the most part I am trying to abide by Joe's wishes but the petty practices in play where Joe is concerned disgust me to the point where I tend to blow my horn extra long whenever I have the opportunity to discuss Joe's work.  Of course, this is another off topic, (read threatening) thread that will be deleted soon.

[CNJ831]

Don't forget, guys, that in January Joe will be initiating a new model railroading e-zine that will be in direct competition with our host here. Couldn't possibly  be a connection there, could there?  

CNJ831

[Phoebe Vet]

We regularly discuss and recommend commercial products as advise.  On the other hand I have seen hobby shops try to post their sale list.  It must be a fine line for the moderators to walk.

Perhaps they could post a guide detailing exactly what is permitted and what isn't

[BlueHillsCPR]

Phoebe Vet

We regularly discuss and recommend commercial products as advise.  On the other hand I have seen hobby shops try to post their sale list.  It must be a fine line for the moderators to walk.

Perhaps they could post a guide detailing exactly what is permitted and what isn't

 

EXACTLY!  Joe Fugate does nothing to promote his mediazine or anything else here.  I think he is actually too busy to even visit the MRR forum anymore.  Any time Joe's name is mentioned now it is in the spirit of giving advice, reviews of commercial products and services etc.  Helping out the next guy by letting him know about a good thing.  So why is it that it's only Joe Fugate's work, products, and customer service that can't be mentioned here?

I'll admit that when I learned Joe was going public with the mediazine I tried to promote the heck out of it...because I thought it was going to be cool and I wanted all my mrr "pals" to know about it.  I got kinda obstinate about it until Joe asked me to stop.  Since then I try very hard not to promote the mediazine, but I'm not about to stop recommending Joe's clinics and videos or praising his work and contribution to this hobby.

Model Railroaders stance is that no advertising is allowed.

 We all "advertise" companies and products every time we recommend envirotex, walthers, kadee, floquil, RMC, Digitrax, Woodland Scenics, Model Railroader, Model-Trains-Video or Joe Fugate.  Only Joe Fugate gets deleted.  They can't be bothered jumping on every other instance of "advertising" what is it about Joe that gets this knee jerk response?

I say that if it's not the company posting, it isn't advertising, it's opinion.

[Lillen]

I'm disappointed as well about this threads disappearance. If Joe writes come and check out my magazine I can see the problem and that it is advertisement.

 

But if we say that Joe treats us as customers well that is not and ad from him, that is us telling our MR friends about something we enjoy. I would assume that every thread when people say "change those couplers to Kadee" is just as much advertisement. But that is fine since Kalmbach do NOT produce couplers.

 

I believe in This sites right to make there own rules. But then those rules should be enforced the same regardless of the company that is being discussed.

 

Look at the BLI forum, small perhaps but still. If we complain about a BLI product the thread remains. If we praise a competitor, the thread remains. That is how I like it. To delete a post that is about MR videos and we discuss how great we have been treated by the company selling them is really poor. Poor enough to make me consider cancelling my subscription. Not because of their right to censor, but because that censorship is directed against a competitor only. How that thread was OT and the amount of posts about gas and the economy and what ever is OK because someone manages to drop something in along the lines that the gas price effect if I take the bus or drive when going to the LHS is ridiculous if a discussion about MR videos are more OT so that they reserve the right to be deleted.

 

 

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

Magnus(Who have all Joe's videos and think they are superb!)

[swoodnj]

Not to mention that Joe and Co. seem to have given the impression that they were out to trample Kalmbach with their "e-zine". I enjoy the internet daily but I also enjoy paper publications arriving in the mail. Joe may be a great modeler and have some nice products but they drew a line in the sand, and I don't blame any moderating that goes on here.

[zgardner18]

What you guys need to be doing is visiting Joe's forum and giving him mad props there. A great website and a good little forum to be a part of.  That way we can keep the rules here and its a win win situation.

Joe Rules!  I thank him for all of my model railroading accomplishments

[CascadeBob]

I also wondered what happened to this thread.  I had tried to get back to it to check one of the contributions that stated that he had purchased Joe's DVD's and found them very good in contrast to other scenery DVD's that he had purchased which he found not to be of equal quality.  I wanted to find out what DVD's did not measure up so I'd not waste my limited model RR funds on second rate scenery videos.  I guess I'll never find out this info. unless the person who made that statement is reading this thread.

I thought that the original thread would not last long once someone made a remark about comparing Joe's DVD's to those published by Kalmbach.  I agree with some of the other posters to this thread that I didn't think what was being said would be considered advertising.  People were simply saying that they like the product and had been treated well by the product's producer.  We see threads on this forum telling us about the horror stories associated with ordering through various suppliers.  The threads containing these remarks don't seem to get pulled.  I appreciate this kind of info.  I want to know who the winners and losers are in our hobby so I can support the winners and avoid the losers.

I would point out that Joe's company does run a small ad in the back of Model Railroader.  I would think that Kalmbach would want his products to succeed in the market place so he could continue to afford to advertise in their magazine.

Bob

[kog1027]

I read the "Thank-you Joe Fugate" thread when it first appeared, then I found this thread in response to it's deletion when I came back to view the forum this evening.

When I read the post in question it did not violate any of MR's rules as far as I could tell.  If I'm reading this thread right MR pulled the "Thank-you Joe Fugate" thread claiming it was advertising.  I agree with other posters in this thread that discussing the merits of Mr. Fugate's Business's Videos is in line with the many other discussions of pros & cons regarding many model railroad manufactures, online mrr product sellers and local hobby shops.

I realize that this forum is Kalmbach's and in the end they can decide to take edit it in any fashion that they choose or even to take it off-line.

However, I have an unassailable right to point out what I see as failings in Kalmbach's handling of the "Thank-you Joe Fugate" thread issue.  I am a paying customer of MR & Kalmbach Publishing, at least until my subscriptions expire.

Mark Gosdin

[BlueHillsCPR]

da_kraut

Reason:
This responses of this post are going off-topic and has nothing to do with the
hobby.

Thank you,
Trains.com Forums"

 

I belive Franks said this is what he received from MRR as to the reason his thread was deleted...?

[HEINZGUDERIAN]

Cause no advertisments! That thread clearly push Jo's DVD. We all can not advertise on here.

[CascadeBob]

I think if the argument about what constitutes advertising in these forums is taken to the logical extreme, then any mention of a specific product or service by name could be considered to be "word-of-mouth" advertising and could be banded from the forum.  I find the free sharing of information and experiences with specific products and services associated with the hobby to be very useful information.  Since our hobby does not have the equivalent of a "Consumer Reports" to review hobby-related products and services, the information shared on these forums is very useful in guiding my further research and decisions on future purchases.  As I've said in my earlier post, I want to know what are the good products and services in our hobby and also, maybe even more importantly, which are the bad ones or the ones to avoid, at least in someone's opinion.

My opinion,

Bob 

[BIG JERR]

thats a shame ,its a great series and many times he plugs reading materials for more info all by MR and kalmbach ...and I well be ordering thease materials from MR because of his recomindation ....Im a newbe so theres just a lot I dont understand and this type of stuff comes to the top....I personally enjoy and get more out of dvds than reading materials ,call me slow or what ever,seeing  helps me grasp what it looks like from one stage to the other. its just a shame...Jerry

[selector]

I think, since I didn't act on the thread in question, that whomever decided it should be deleted felt that the original purpose of the thread had been coopted by people not interested in the original intent of the thread.  They had changed a perfectly good thread  to make it a personal vendetta against Kalmbach and this forum, and by extension to those who were loyal to this forum.  It had gone from a thread giving credit where credit was due to a thread twisted to lambast Kalmbach for its censorship of its own forum.

It was poor form, and it had to go.  That is my opinion after the fact.

-Crandell