cicsos2 There is a saying that comes to mind ... "It is better to be quiet and thought to be a fool than to open your mouth and prove it." Some of us who are still learning are on a search for good information and are finding it here ... and within the pages of the printed page. One thing that is really great is that the information in both sources may become dated at times, but is still of value to many people as they progress in their quest to excel in the hobby. However, it is still a bit daunting to be a "new kid on the block" and ask a foolish or trivial question. So, I do a lot of reading (i.e. lurking) of this and other discussion groups, I buy books and back issues of MR and try out different things. So, for now, when I have questions, I'll keep looking till I find an answer. Ditto this post...as you can see I don't post often. I too lurked here for about 2 years before "joining". there are so many repeated posts it gets boring, so I much rather do a search and get my information I'm looking for. Yea I've seen the "modeling guru's" on here, we all know who you are, some are so helpful and polite and go out of their way to help find an answer, and then there are the others, who seem to bash people for a simple question or much of what's already been posted, they just like to bash others. There are and always will be people in life who just cause trouble cause they like it, it's just their nature. I worked the last 15 years of my working life as a Chief Range Safety Officer on a shooting range and there were a few who would not comply with range rules or just walked on the edge of being told to leave the range due to bad safety habits and breaking the rules, some did make it out the gate after being told to pack up and leave. One of my friends asked a couple of them why they were always getting in trouble with the range officers, some of the comments were because "we just don't like him", "see how much he'll take before he gets p-ssed", "just to see how much we can get away with", stuff like that. Well I've been gone now for about 3 years and guess what, the guy that took my place is having the same problems I had with the same people. some I actually had brought before the board and were expelled for life. I imagine it works the same here. The moderators do the expelling, I'm a moderator on another site and know what it's like, am there and doing that! This site is not nearly as bad as some others!
There is a saying that comes to mind ... "It is better to be quiet and thought to be a fool than to open your mouth and prove it."
Some of us who are still learning are on a search for good information and are finding it here ... and within the pages of the printed page. One thing that is really great is that the information in both sources may become dated at times, but is still of value to many people as they progress in their quest to excel in the hobby.
However, it is still a bit daunting to be a "new kid on the block" and ask a foolish or trivial question.
So, I do a lot of reading (i.e. lurking) of this and other discussion groups, I buy books and back issues of MR and try out different things. So, for now, when I have questions, I'll keep looking till I find an answer.
Ditto this post...as you can see I don't post often. I too lurked here for about 2 years before "joining". there are so many repeated posts it gets boring, so I much rather do a search and get my information I'm looking for. Yea I've seen the "modeling guru's" on here, we all know who you are, some are so helpful and polite and go out of their way to help find an answer, and then there are the others, who seem to bash people for a simple question or much of what's already been posted, they just like to bash others. There are and always will be people in life who just cause trouble cause they like it, it's just their nature. I worked the last 15 years of my working life as a Chief Range Safety Officer on a shooting range and there were a few who would not comply with range rules or just walked on the edge of being told to leave the range due to bad safety habits and breaking the rules, some did make it out the gate after being told to pack up and leave. One of my friends asked a couple of them why they were always getting in trouble with the range officers, some of the comments were because "we just don't like him", "see how much he'll take before he gets p-ssed", "just to see how much we can get away with", stuff like that. Well I've been gone now for about 3 years and guess what, the guy that took my place is having the same problems I had with the same people. some I actually had brought before the board and were expelled for life. I imagine it works the same here. The moderators do the expelling, I'm a moderator on another site and know what it's like, am there and doing that!
This site is not nearly as bad as some others!
Andrew,
You are correct. I had a theroy that the user database was not being refreshed until a user posted a reply or began a thread. I posted a reply and the user list was not updated, in either Firefox or IE. Sounds like there is a setting not set up in the Site software or it is actually a bug/feature.
As far as posting in any forum, normally I don't. I write quite a bit, and like to use my words like a Big Boy, but when posting, for some reason, I can come off a little strong and to the point. I have been in and out of this hobby since the 70's, and I have never met an Expert or someone who knows everything about it. That is one of the things that draws me to it. I read the posts and contributions of others and I am thankful for those that want to share, I have learned much from you and I am eternally grateful. I post from time to time, and hopefully I have been helpful or at least made someone research further, or made them laugh at my response.
I have done no introduction post. None of you know me, and I don't really know any of you. We have never "eaten chicken" together. All I know of any of you is what you say here. A forum is, at least in my definition (I don't have a copy of the Hernia Edition of Websters Handy), a place where like minded people get together to discuss and share ideas and experiences. So if we met face to face, and sat in roundtable fashion, and discussed our enjoyment of this hobby would there be some buttheadedness? Oh yeah, count on it. Would we argue? You bet. That's what happens when people are passionate about something. At the end of the day would there be some people that didn't fit in, and others that would be friends. Yep. That too. The same thing is going to happen here. We forgive, we discuss, we share. That is what this place is for. If you post something and get flamed for it, or someone says something derogatory, well that's just the way they are. Most of us aren't lilke that. Most of us want to hear (read) about what you have done on your layout lately, what you just purchased, and if you think it's any good or not. Personally if I had more time I would be here more often. But there is a layout to work on, so I have something to share when I log on next time.
Try to remember we are social.
At least most of us.
And some of us read more than we write.
Steve
Hello markpierce,
I'm a member of the forum here also but ever since the forum revision my login name has only showed up once as being logged in despite adding my two cents to a number of discussions. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only member with this particular situation going on.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years!
Andrew
markpierce At this moment there were 45 guests and only five members at this forum. I have the impression there are many more viewers than participants viewing the forum almost all the time. That got me to wondering. What proportion of these people are modelers versus the curious? Why don't more of them participate? Why did I just have the thought that we participants are zoo animals under observation? Are there lots of foreign viewers who believe their English writing skills are inadequate? Mark
At this moment there were 45 guests and only five members at this forum. I have the impression there are many more viewers than participants viewing the forum almost all the time. That got me to wondering. What proportion of these people are modelers versus the curious? Why don't more of them participate? Why did I just have the thought that we participants are zoo animals under observation? Are there lots of foreign viewers who believe their English writing skills are inadequate?
Mark
As of right now, there are 44 guests, or if you prefer, sneakers, and 19 members on line. This ratio is often greater where there are fewer than a half dozen members being viewed by a much larger proportion of guests as observed by the OP.
I am wondering that, depending on the time of day or night, many guests might be from overseas who are here on this forum while the rest of us are sleeping leaving only insomniac or night-owl members red eyed in front of their computers.
I have noticed that there are several members from Britain, but they seem only to post if one of them might be concerned about the late arrival of his current issue MR magazine. And there are probably folks in other parts of Europe and elsewhere in the world who model US prototype roads or their freelance choices are influenced by US railroads whose need to visit a forum such as this one is satisfied by just looking and learning rather than contributing.
Even though they may wish to contribute something in written form they may feel that if they were to inadvertently put a foot wrong some clown will rip into them for an imagined transgression of forum ethics or modeling styles and preferrences. Perhaps also some of the terminology specific to any special interest group my seem strange at first to somebody used to a more simple form of English.
Some comments various member posters make towards each other can appear to the casual observer to be rude and thoughtless and there are a few grumpy old bears whose antics here could possibly discourage participation by those of a more mild mannered disposition and who don't see that going head to head with another fellow is part of their modeling enjoyment. In this sense, I suppose it is much like a zoo where people can view this site watching it in the same way some folks watch soap opera's. But without really knowing this for sure, I bet most of the guests are here for the good information that will be helpful and be encouraged in their modeling efforts by some very open people who seem to be generous with their time and their ability to share their knowledge and hobby experience with those of us whose modeling experience often benefits from such help.
Bruce
There are allot of different people from different walks of life, some of the above post to this thread really point this out about the different walks of life that are out there. I have had my own personal bashings over something I said, or a picture of that I have posted. You can take it like a grain of salt or club over the head. I have had some members that have sent me nasty personal messages, about my way of thinking, or picture I posted. But on the same note I have aquired good info and a few pats on the back, even when I was not looking for one either.
People that are afraid to join in on the forum and ask questions or post pictures? Yes! There are allot of reasons why they don't come forward. Even when someone does put a thread up that ask maybe a silly question, or post a picture of some work they have done. They are going to come under the firing squad, it going to happen no matter what. Some good comment some nasty one's. I have found out over the years from forums, that some people will say things that they would never say face to face in public or over a cup of coffe. The net is a safe place where people feel safe from harm, but feel free to give someone a good rubbing for there own personal reason. There is no one in this forum that can honestly say they have never bashed someone over the net, I have before. I make every effort note to go there either.
Some People spend way to much time in forums to, and its easy to do, been there done that. We should be helping each other in this forum, we all would benefit, This forum is not perfect, it never will be! We should all remember we are not perfect either.
ICRR1964
Wow, you think you are under a microscope or a zoo animal in this hobby....
I participate in French and Indian War re-enactment also. Talk about being seen as a tourist attraction.
I think one reason that people lurk is to find out what goes on on this messageboard. I do that to almost every messageboard or group I join. If I like what I see, I join. If not, I leave it alone.
There are some people out there that have nothing better to do in their world than surf through messageboards looking for a place where they can stir up trouble. I don't know how many times I have seen it on F&I boards, but a couple of weeks ago I noticed it here. I enjoyed looking at the Weekend Photo Fun pics that were being posted, then someone attacked someone else (I think Jeff Wimberley?) and all of the sudden there have been no more Weekend Photo Fun pics.
Then there are people who are afraid to join in on boards like this because they are afraid of being belittled for their "lacking" skills in creating a realistic model railroad. An example would be the guys who use Matchbox or Hot Wheels cars being called out because they are the wrong scale. Or the folks who run rolling stock that is not period correct. You can't run a 1970's stylized reefer with a Pennsy steamer! To the folks that are purest, yeah, it just isn't right to do that, but to many others they run the rolling stock they have just to put in on the tracks. I wonder how many of the purests actually run non-time period stock on their period layouts when no ne else is around.
Robert H. Shilling II
Whoa...now its getting into some pretty heavy philosophical territory, on this thread. Sadly, I think the previous entry hits about a dozen nails on the head.
And I think we've all noticed lately how much that turn in the general way of thinking, has spread to politics, which at one time, was the place for those motivated to serving the public need. (And has lately shown itself to be a den of thieves and self serving rats--many of whom are getting caught with the cheese right in their red hands.)
Worse: I can't think of any CURE for all of this, and have heard no one else come up with anything, either.
That is very true of the recent adult generation. If one were to look into an Elks or Rotary or Masonic Lodge meeting, I believe one would find that the mean age had climbed dramatically in the past 10-15 years, and that the membership was slowly dwindling. I think today's young adults, if the numbers lurking are reflective of them as a demographic, are loath to submit to rules and structure outside of school. They have been taught to question all rules and organizations, and that must eventually beget some doubt or cynicism after a while. Some of it may be deserved, but much of it isn't. I think of the good that these clubs have done for their communities, erecting schools, hospitals, burn units, libraries, green spaces...the list goes on. Young people these days get all their cues from each other and the internet....no libraries, after formal education..no schools, and who under 30 will ever need a hospital?
People don't like committment and tend to avoid it.
Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.
Daniel G.
Not quite yet Mark, LOLOL!
I been watching this thread from day one, and watched it grow, no real arguements, or name calling to anyone. So we have a posotive note going. I was going to just sit back and watch this thread fade, but I could not stand it anymore, and have to just chime in to.
There has been allot of talk about sneaks, trolls, and lurkers. Ok, now lets throw out all the other types of members or guest that are in or are part of this forum. We have abbusive, polite, helpful, grammer junky's, dictionary junky's, newbie, veteran modelers, talented artist, trouble shooters, information helpers, opinion givers, bashers, arguement seekers, young, middle aged, old and a host of other types. But it all comes down to one thing though. We are people! poor, middle class, and upper class people. Some choose to just search the forums for info, thats all. But in the end we all share one thing, and thats we are just people that are guest and members of this forum trying to share and learn from each other.
markpierce unca roggie Its happened to ME several times, too...you post something as maybe the thirty-third guy to remark on the subject, and no one says BOO after that. It leaves you wondering if it was that you so succinctly tied up the subject with what you wrote, and its "done," or if the others thought: "Oh, WELL, if HE'S gonna come in and say something like THAT, then I'm no longer interested in discussing it!") Unca Roggie, this happens frequently to me. For my ego's sake, I imagine the reason is the former and not the latter. Mark
unca roggie Its happened to ME several times, too...you post something as maybe the thirty-third guy to remark on the subject, and no one says BOO after that. It leaves you wondering if it was that you so succinctly tied up the subject with what you wrote, and its "done," or if the others thought: "Oh, WELL, if HE'S gonna come in and say something like THAT, then I'm no longer interested in discussing it!")
Its happened to ME several times, too...you post something as maybe the thirty-third guy to remark on the subject, and no one says BOO after that. It leaves you wondering if it was that you so succinctly tied up the subject with what you wrote, and its "done," or if the others thought: "Oh, WELL, if HE'S gonna come in and say something like THAT, then I'm no longer interested in discussing it!")
Unca Roggie, this happens frequently to me. For my ego's sake, I imagine the reason is the former and not the latter.
You haven't been paying attention to a few threads in the past... I have already posted on this, it is usually ME who is the last person to post on a thread and then it isn't seen again! Very frequently, as a matter of fact you can almost dub me the "Thread destroyer". Thankfully there is little need for someone with such powers.
As for this thread, I did ask as to what is a guest or what have you but the whole thing just has made no sense to me whatsoever so I am giving up. As far as I know you have to be a registered member to even look in on these forums. But whatever...
Oh, and I 'm sure this one will end now.
citylimits markpierce When I started this thread (which I sometimes regret), I used the verb "sneaking" in the dictionary meaning of being stealthy, as something done in secret. I didn't want to use "lurking" because it can mean ready to ambush. According to my old Webster's, lurk, skulk, slink, and sneak mean to behave so as to escape attention. Lurk implies a lying in wait in a place of concealment and suggests a readiness to attack, skulk suggest more strongly cowardice or fear or sinister intent, slink implies moving stealthily merely to escape attention, sneakng may add an implication of entering or leaving a place or evading a diffficulty by furtive (e.g. stealthy), indirect, or underhanded methods. Trolls lurk. Anonymous guests sneak (they are stealthy). Mark Thanks for your rational behind using - "sneaking" in heading up your original post. You may find interesting the definitions of sneak and lurk as offered in the Consise Oxford Dictionary. Lurk. Be hidden in, under, about. escape notice, exist unobserved, be latent. Lurka, sneak forth. Not too much different from your Webster's definition. Sneak. Slink, go furtivly (often, in, out, past, round, about, off, away, etc) Also as in foot wear - sneakers. Mean, cowardly, underhand. An informer, telltale, steeling from open doors or windows. However, the Oxford dictionary seems to define, sneak, as most people understand the word to mean.
markpierce When I started this thread (which I sometimes regret), I used the verb "sneaking" in the dictionary meaning of being stealthy, as something done in secret. I didn't want to use "lurking" because it can mean ready to ambush. According to my old Webster's, lurk, skulk, slink, and sneak mean to behave so as to escape attention. Lurk implies a lying in wait in a place of concealment and suggests a readiness to attack, skulk suggest more strongly cowardice or fear or sinister intent, slink implies moving stealthily merely to escape attention, sneakng may add an implication of entering or leaving a place or evading a diffficulty by furtive (e.g. stealthy), indirect, or underhanded methods. Trolls lurk. Anonymous guests sneak (they are stealthy). Mark
When I started this thread (which I sometimes regret), I used the verb "sneaking" in the dictionary meaning of being stealthy, as something done in secret. I didn't want to use "lurking" because it can mean ready to ambush. According to my old Webster's, lurk, skulk, slink, and sneak mean to behave so as to escape attention. Lurk implies a lying in wait in a place of concealment and suggests a readiness to attack, skulk suggest more strongly cowardice or fear or sinister intent, slink implies moving stealthily merely to escape attention, sneakng may add an implication of entering or leaving a place or evading a diffficulty by furtive (e.g. stealthy), indirect, or underhanded methods.
Trolls lurk. Anonymous guests sneak (they are stealthy).
Thanks for your rational behind using - "sneaking" in heading up your original post.
You may find interesting the definitions of sneak and lurk as offered in the Consise Oxford Dictionary.
Lurk. Be hidden in, under, about. escape notice, exist unobserved, be latent. Lurka, sneak forth.
Not too much different from your Webster's definition.
Sneak. Slink, go furtivly (often, in, out, past, round, about, off, away, etc)
Also as in foot wear - sneakers.
Mean, cowardly, underhand. An informer, telltale, steeling from open doors or windows.
However, the Oxford dictionary seems to define, sneak, as most people understand the word to mean.
There is a signifcant difference between the verb "sneak" and the noun "sneak." A sneak may steal but someone who sneaks isn't stealing but is being stealthy.
Anyway, isn't it time this thread die and be put to rest?
Hi Mark.
Crandell - Probably at about the same place in time, but certainly several thousand miles away from each other, my Mother was also calling me names. Often this was because I stole cigartettes to share with my mates and then lie about this minor crime when confronted by my mother seeking answers to the missing smokes. Her reaction was to call me, "a little sneak" No dictionary need there to interpret what she meant by that
Stein -
Only four more pages to go now and your prediction, or worst fear, will come to pass. You need not worry as I think this post has started to run out of steam
Lastly. I want to thank those who were able to give explanations to the meaning of the three words I asked about.
Bot - An interesting and some what-frightening fact. Hopefully my spyware, gatekeeper, washer programes will take care of this type of activity.
Sneak and Lurk. I can see now why these are preferred words to be used to describe the activities of forum guests who seldom make an appearence. However, I can see very little value in using these words when - guests, is more accurate, is understood probably by most people, does not confuse old codgers like me and that it is the name given to these folks by this forums owners who presumably thought that guests would prove to be adequate in the circumstances - who knows
Cheers
I like Tony's suggestion of a place for "newbie" questions. It would be nice to see one of these for each magazine.
Cheers, Bill M.
I'd actually forgotten how it DID start as someone's remark about how many show up as being "in" here, but how few participate by posting
...and was more bowled over to read how some said they are turned off on the idea, due to how some of us react badly to what they write, or not at all (remember the "caboose" remark, back there? Its happened to ME several times, too...you post something as maybe the thirty-third guy to remark on the subject, and no one says BOO after that. It leaves you wondering if it was that you so succinctly tied up the subject with what you wrote, and its "done," or if the others thought: "Oh, WELL, if HE'S gonna come in and say something like THAT, then I'm no longer interested in discussing it!")
I suspect there is an odd dynamic at work, in this whole regard. The other message board I dart into now and again is my high school class on the Classmates site...again, sitting on the right hand side of the screen, is a long list of those logged in, or have been, lately, yet the last thing anyone entered was from three days earlier. Hard to believe no one was tempted to say SOMEthing in all that time.
Except for this: I watch my wife sit at this computer, to write an email she feels is long overdue to someone. She types in the standard greeting, does the "how are you, I am fine" thing, then stares at the monitor, dumbfounded. If she PHONED that person, they'd yak for two hours, with no spaces in between their words.
It boils down to how a LOT of people simply do not find writing ANYthing, all that easy. Seems strange for a verbose goof like ME who you can hardly shut UP.
Wow, this thread is certainly much ado about nothing. I drop in to look at the forums a couple of times each day, but I only log in when I am going to post or when I need access to subscriber-only resources. I'm sure there are many others like me -- not "sneaking" at all. And what would it matter if I was?
As far as "seeing yourself" logged in: I've found that sometimes a full refresh of the screen is needed before the topics or the logged-in list changes, at least with IE on my machine. The same was true for me with the previous forum software.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
jasperofzealcicsos2...Some of us who are still learning are on a search for good information and are finding it here ... and within the pages of the printed page. One thing that is really great is that the information in both sources may become dated at times, but is still of value to many people as they progress in their quest to excel in the hobby. However, it is still a bit daunting to be a "new kid on the block" and ask a foolish or trivial question. So, I do a lot of reading (i.e. lurking) of this and other discussion groups, I buy books and back issues of MR and try out different things. So, for now, when I have questions, I'll keep looking till I find an answer. Sometimes I wonder how difficult it would be for our host to create another forum category designed specifically for new modelers (newbies or what have you). I know most new users will go to the general discussion forum and ask beginner type questions with hopes of getting help. I've seen a lot of seasoned modelers get annoyed by someone who may be asking a very basic modeling question. Seasoned pros voicing their annoyance makes them look bad and also does nothing to encourage the new guy to grow in the hobby. Placing all the beginner type questions into one location will probably make it easier for a newcomer to find the information he/she is seeking. There are those among us that don't mind answering the beginner questions, so they would be very much at home helping the newbies. Maybe if there is a place specific for newcomers we may find less "lurkers" and more participants.
cicsos2...Some of us who are still learning are on a search for good information and are finding it here ... and within the pages of the printed page. One thing that is really great is that the information in both sources may become dated at times, but is still of value to many people as they progress in their quest to excel in the hobby. However, it is still a bit daunting to be a "new kid on the block" and ask a foolish or trivial question. So, I do a lot of reading (i.e. lurking) of this and other discussion groups, I buy books and back issues of MR and try out different things. So, for now, when I have questions, I'll keep looking till I find an answer.
Sometimes I wonder how difficult it would be for our host to create another forum category designed specifically for new modelers (newbies or what have you). I know most new users will go to the general discussion forum and ask beginner type questions with hopes of getting help. I've seen a lot of seasoned modelers get annoyed by someone who may be asking a very basic modeling question. Seasoned pros voicing their annoyance makes them look bad and also does nothing to encourage the new guy to grow in the hobby. Placing all the beginner type questions into one location will probably make it easier for a newcomer to find the information he/she is seeking. There are those among us that don't mind answering the beginner questions, so they would be very much at home helping the newbies. Maybe if there is a place specific for newcomers we may find less "lurkers" and more participants.
Several posters over time have made mention of other forums (Yahoo groups seem to have a lot) elsewhere for "serious" modelers. Apparently these are not as successful as this one. Personally, the other forums I have visited and the Yahoo groups I have joined have not been as interesting as this one. Thanks to Bergie and his gang of moderators, the Kalmbach forums seem to have achieved an optimum mix. So I would say don't change it.
Frankly, I think the newcomers and their questions are a large part of the sucess of this forum. It's also surprising how often a topic I think I know will come up with a new twist or piece of information I was not aware of. Besides, you can usually tell from the title and first post if a thread is one you'll be interested in.
Enjoy
Paul
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
Well said, Stein.
selector markpierce draftingplans Mark, Do I need to do someting special to let members know I am in fact on line? I have checked a number of places in my profile and find nothing. Sorry, I'm clueless and have no connection with this forum other than being a participant. Perhaps someone like Crandell will know. Mark I am sorry, I have no idea. I can tell you that when I am on-line and present, the display of on-line members does not always show that I am on. I have even refreshed to see if I can force an update....nope. I'll linger and post once or twice, and then move on to something else or to another site if I have time. I'll return and there I be...displayed. It is perhaps due to a schedule of sampling the forum when people log on between samples, in which case the server won't update the information. Maybe Stein or someone else more familiar with forum servers knows. If this is persistent and you never see your user name....at all...then please send a complaint to customer services, or sent a PM or email to Bergie and ask him to look into it. -Crandell
markpierce draftingplans Mark, Do I need to do someting special to let members know I am in fact on line? I have checked a number of places in my profile and find nothing. Sorry, I'm clueless and have no connection with this forum other than being a participant. Perhaps someone like Crandell will know. Mark
draftingplans Mark, Do I need to do someting special to let members know I am in fact on line? I have checked a number of places in my profile and find nothing.
Mark,
Do I need to do someting special to let members know I am in fact on line? I have checked a number of places in my profile and find nothing.
Sorry, I'm clueless and have no connection with this forum other than being a participant. Perhaps someone like Crandell will know.
I am sorry, I have no idea. I can tell you that when I am on-line and present, the display of on-line members does not always show that I am on. I have even refreshed to see if I can force an update....nope. I'll linger and post once or twice, and then move on to something else or to another site if I have time. I'll return and there I be...displayed. It is perhaps due to a schedule of sampling the forum when people log on between samples, in which case the server won't update the information. Maybe Stein or someone else more familiar with forum servers knows.
If this is persistent and you never see your user name....at all...then please send a complaint to customer services, or sent a PM or email to Bergie and ask him to look into it.
-Crandell
Wish I actually was more familiar with the forum servers, but I while I have quite a bit of experience with web and application servers, I have the same access to the servers of these particular forums as the rest of you - ie zip.
I have already reported it to Bergie by PM that the new forum software seems to have a bug in correctly displaying the names of who is actually logged on - it seem to displays several of us as "guest" instead of by name.
It is an annoying, but not important bug. It creates quite a bit of (IMO) earnest, verbose and good willed soul searching among people who look for the "cause" of a mostly imaginary problem - that there supposedly are so many newbies who supposedly are huddled just outside the group, cowering in fear of big bad rivet counters. But a bit of soul searching never hurt anyone.
Still, people who actually are logged on without being shown (like e.g me, daveb or draftingplans) apparently can both read and post just fine. No problem there.
People who of their own free will have chosen not to register and log on still can read posts as much as they like. No problem there.
And people who have been readers, but wish to post, still have full access to chose to register, log on and post. Even the relative handful of people who have chosen to register, log in and post to tell us that they are too timid/intimidated to register, log on and post have apparently succeeded in getting to post. No problem there.
So to me, no problem. If the rest of you want to have a 10 page debate on how to make the world a gentler, fluffier place for insecure people, or how to feed a need among some to don armor, climb up on a donkey and go forth look for windmills to charge to protect the supposedly weak and defenseless from imaginary dragons, feel free to continue the debate for another four or five pages.
Grin, Stein
Smile, Stein
markpiercedraftingplans Mark, Do I need to do someting special to let members know I am in fact on line? I have checked a number of places in my profile and find nothing. Sorry, I'm clueless and have no connection with this forum other than being a participant. Perhaps someone like Crandell will know. Mark
tstageWhile I won't deny that there are probably a few "sneakers" lurking on the forum, maybe most of them are just "observers" rather than "interactionists". You'll find that in life all over.Tom
While I won't deny that there are probably a few "sneakers" lurking on the forum, maybe most of them are just "observers" rather than "interactionists". You'll find that in life all over.
Tom
Exactly. Many people just prefer to read the info posted here, and don't care to ask questions. That being the case, there's little incentive to join.
- Harry
Wow...this thread has turned out to be the most educational of all I've had time to dip my mouse into, to read!
As I work way too much of my conscious time, I come here as a quick "recess" just now and again, so only by hearing what so many of the members have said about this subject, have I gotten an insight into what they are really like.
Back what seems like a million years ago, when a 7th grade teacher challenged me to put together a Varney tank car kit, he warned me the hobby had "rivet counters." I took everything so literally then (may still do so) and imagined the nightmarish existance of someone who ruins the hobby for himself by getting all out of shape if a boxcar has one less rivet on it, than the prototype. And sure enough, I've come across postings on this website that seem to have been written by someone like that. One really must just shake his head, and move ON, remembering it "takes all kinds."
But it really is sad to have read a few of the postings on this particular thread, from those who say they are discouraged from participating, due to how some folks write mean things. I decided to play a small part, by coming in under a silly name, awhile back, and try to add comic relief, here and there. Sadly, as someone pointed out a few postings ago, the INTENTION of being funny is not always interpreted as that...and I'll bet some sarcastic thing I may have entered, was taken the wrong way.
So, I'd like to say that ANYTHING offered by some jerk known as "Unca Roggie" is never intended to be anything other than lighthearted and hopefully inticing a giggle.
EXCEPT FOR THIS: those of you who know its YOU that is being referred to as mean spirited, always jumping on a misspelled word or some other inane item, on a posting you see here, need to rethink why you bother. And I cannot even imagine writing that you don't like someone else's attempt at modelling--I've yet to come across anyone saying such a stupid thing, or I would have gone ballistic at the writer.
Interesting subject and I checked if I am listed as being online and I am not but when came on this site it says welcome back you are logged on. Do I need to do someting special to let members know I am in fact on line? I have checked a number of places in my profile and find nothing.
Thanks
Paul, thanks for your assistance. Dean and Paul, sorry, I got the two of you mixed up in my earlier long reply...it was meant for Paul. I thank you both for your contributions to the subject.
Humans like to organize and classify things, including impressions. It is part of our heuristic learning process. When something sounds, looks, and moves like a duck...... The culture on the internet is a grand culture, but every forum has a sub-culture to which participants are expected to adopt fairly closely. I have gotten used to labels, but I certainly understand that people new and unfamiliar with customs and terminology can be mightily hurt if they are received in a cold way. The labels are just that much more confusing.
In any event, I also appreciate Mark's explanation just above. As I was careful to point out in my last post, my Mom used the work "sneak" and it has all sorts of negative connotations that Mark didn't intend.
Finally, I am pleased that we can wade through threads such as this and help each other to get oriented in a way we find acceptable.
Bruce,There are several internet terms that apply to most forums and discussion groups. Some of these go back a couple decades to pre-newsgroup days. Although Wikipedia is not to be taken too seriously, their definitions of various terms are roughly compatible with what I think they are:
Troll: An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Lurker: In Internet culture, a lurker is a person who reads discussions on a message board, newsgroup, chatroom, file sharing or other interactive system, but rarely participates.
Sockpuppet: A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception within an online community. In its earliest usage, a sockpuppet was a false identity through which a member of an Internet community speaks with or about oneself, pretending to be a different person, like a ventriloquist manipulating a hand puppet. The key difference between a sockpuppet and a regular pseudonym (sometimes termed an "alt" which is short for alternate, as in alternate identity) is the pretense that the puppet is a third party who is not affiliated with the puppeteer.
Shill: A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. In online discussion media, satisfied consumers or "innocent" parties may express specific opinions in order to further the interests of an organization in which they have an interest, such as a commercial vendor or special-interest group.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************