1970s-80s Model Power E7 - Real muscle!

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

Does anyone have any opinions on the Rivarossi E8/E9? Just pondering buying one of the A+A (power and dummy) packs as they're currently very cheap, but would like to hear about how they run

Yuck, they have a funny horizontal mount motor on the rear truck only. The don't pick up electricity well and stutter a lot. I've always wanted to get a B-unit and try two power trucks in it just to see what would happen.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cicada
Also, has anybody tried thrust washers between the flywheel and its bearings to tame "the noise"?

Reading this thread I am surprised no one has mentioned what I thought was one of the most well known and biggest noise killers. Replace ALL the U-joints and rods with flexible surgical tubing.

BTW - This drive train with a Cary metal body will win just about any single unit "non-custom" pulling contest you can find to enter.

[cicada]

Ah yes-- I once made a Santa Fe E1 with a Hobbytown drive and a Cary E6 body (took a *lot* of filing and soldering), and it wins the prize for pulling. The only thing I have that will out-pull it is an E3 A/B drawbar-coupled, powered set made from Cary bodies and Model Power drives. When I had a layout, this pair once derailed and punched a hole in the scenery. Their weight was so extreme that every time they crossed a small Atlas bridge, you could watch the bridge deform.

[Anonymous]

Check the Model Magazine website for an article on how to tune up the Model Power E-7 in the NMRA Bullentin, back when it was a real magazine, you can then get a copy of that article from the NMRA for the cost of copying.

Of course if you really want to pull something, purchase an old Hobbytown Multidrive for the E Series of locomotives and put a Cary Metal Body on it.

Rick

[cicada]

The Model Power E units are good looking and have good mechanisms. They are nicer than the Rivarossis, and the windshields seem more accurately shaped than the P2K E-units.

But I recently picked up one at a swap meet that got me wondering. This unit was old, in a faded dusty box-- but it looked like it had never been used, or even out of the box.

When I opened it up and took it apart, the frame was corroded, and the plastic motor ends and some driveline parts were slightly brittile. It's a lot older than any other ones I have, which show none of these conditions, but I'm wondering if they all get this way after time. If so, can this process be slowed?

Also, has anybody tried thrust washers between the flywheel and its bearings to tame "the noise"?

[Anonymous]

Ya, I've got one and believe me, that sucker can pull the guts out of mule if it wanted to. A really great locomotive.

[csxns]

Have the E9 it was in Santa Fe warbonnet i striped it and painted it in Southern green.Have the shark in Pennsy colors and a dummy also.

[Anonymous]

I'll probably be using them on short commuter runs with Walthers bilevel cars, like the C&NW (and later Metra) did. I'm also working on a set of Walthers streamliners - have one sleeper so far, waiting for my LHS to get new stock. That's the good part about modelling a museum, anything can appear in a train!

At the moment I'm operating on an 8x1 shelf layout so long trains are just a dream - still, I'm collecting locos and cars for the future - a decent investment. I'll probably go for the Proto E's though - they're not that much more expensive on eBay as you say. Just waiting for a suitable paint scheme to come up on eBay UK - there's a seller that has regular auctions of Proto locos in various schemes, so will be keeping my eyes open. Thanks for the advice!

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

Does anyone have any opinions on the Rivarossi E8/E9? Just pondering buying one of the A+A (power and dummy) packs as they're currently very cheap, but would like to hear about how they run - I'm aware they need some detailing work but if they run well it'd be worthwhile.

Hello Railroading_Brit

If these units have the same drives that have been around for years, then I wouldn't suggest them. Rivorossi drives are not as smooth as some of the current offerings.

Honestly, it would be worth it to save or budget just a little higher and get the Proto 2000 units. On Ebay, I've seen quite a few E-units go for under $50. I currently have two E7s. I really like how I can crack the throttle open and these units will roll smoothly, and quietly! For me this is a must for pulling passenger trains with locomotives that don't "jerk or jitter" at low speed.Just my opinion! [2c]

By the way.......can you tell us about your situation? What type of passenger trains will you be pulling with the E-units? Are you using the Rivorossi cars? [swg]

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have any opinions on the Rivarossi E8/E9? Just pondering buying one of the A+A (power and dummy) packs as they're currently very cheap, but would like to hear about how they run - I'm aware they need some detailing work but if they run well it'd be worthwhile.

[jrbernier]

I had both the E9 and an E7 - I cherry-picked the best running ones from hobby store stock. They did run very well - the big problem, appearance-wise was the visable mounting screw on the roof of the engine. I dumped them as soon as the good P2K stuff became available. Both the P2K and BLI engines will pull very good.

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

I had this loco and to this day I don't what happen to it. I love the E's and F's loco. The Model Power E7 was a good loco. I wi***hat I had it back.

[rogerhensley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Eddystone

I have 2 HO Model Power E-9's, I am also familiar with the growl they make. If I run mine with the shell off and put slight drag on the flywheel with my finger the noise stops. I thought the noise was coming from the motor and was going to replace it, even though it runs great, just too much noise. Anybody out there ever quieted one of these down?

I quieted every one of these that I sold when I had my shop in the 80s. They were just too noisy. I filled the gear cases with vaseline and ran them in each direction for 30 minutes and then took them apart and cleaned everything out. That softened the gears enough to 'run them in' . I heard last year that at least two of the ones that I sold are still running (quietly) on a layout after 20 years. However, a warning here. Those units are old and I don't know how this would work with them today. Those gears have aged. Use caution!

The current draw was better than the old Athearn motor at that time.

[fmilhaupt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bill mathewson

{snip}
Does anyone know if the FAs were originally tooled by Train Miniature?

No. The Train Miniatures shell was a reasonably-accurate FA1, while the Model Power FA was more of an "FA1.5", with the length of an FA2 and the radiator arrangement of an FA1.

Of the four "good" Roco-built locos Model Power released (FA, E7A, E8/9, Shark), the FA was the least accurate. It pulled as well as the Shark, though.

I have fond memories of testing a used Shark on the test track at a hobby shop I was working at in the mid-1980s. We got the thing to creep so slowly it took more than a minute per tie.

[AntonioFP45]

HighIron2003R, [:)]

Yes the BLI E7's do pull well and "earn their keep". Before purchasing one from a hobby shop, ask the sales rep to do a "demo test "run for you. Most model railroad stores nowadays have "test track" or even a small layout where locomotives and rolling stock can be tried out before the customer makes the purchsase. [;)]

Happy Hobo Trains in Tampa has a "sweet running" BLI Burlington E7 that's used for customer demonstrations. Nice running unit! (If you purchase one, just remember to keep the volume turned down low! While enjoyable, sound can become irritating at high levels)[:0][:p][:D]

10-4!

[Anonymous]

I see the "Con Cor" has come up. I own a pair of Con Cor SD24's apparently Austria was where they were made.

I just submitted a order for a A-B-B-A set of P2k FA units. all powered. Gonna do some pulling there and hopefully witout the noise.

What about the BLI's E units? do they pull well?

Lee

[Anonymous]

hey AntonioFP45 -- thanks for info!

[Anonymous]

The E7 Pulled more cars than my GP9M

DOGGY

[AntonioFP45]

Bill Matthewson,

Thanks for the encouragement. I will post progress. Before I install the DCC I definetly have to give the girls (E7s) a very thorough mechanical "tune up" as indicated on the above posts. I will perform Jsoderq and Nfmisso's recommendations with the help of Cmarchand. This would be followed by the bodywork. Hopefully I'll have this done before June.

As for DCC, the plan for now is installing a TCS decoder in conjunction with a Soundtraxx DSX "sound" decoder. (For those that are not aware, TCS decoders are underrated and from what I've heard have fewer problems than comparable competing decoders.

[Anonymous]

FYI -- Model Power used the same chassis, huge motor and drive for both the Baldwin RF-16 'Sharks" and the Alco FAs. The Baldwin trucks are incorrect, for Model Power used the trucks from the Alco FAs which look similar but differ in the details and I believe also in wheelbase. Does anyone know if the FAs were originally tooled by Train Miniature? hey- AntonioFP45- keep us posted on your progress re: installation of DCC in your E7s; I am refurbishing two groups of Shark ABAs and want to install DCC in four powered As to use as slow drag haulers, similar to how the prototypes usually were utilized.

[AntonioFP45]

Eddystone,

It seems like Jsoderq may have given us a solution, or at least a very good place to start. From what he indicates, replacing the motor might not solve the noise problem. You've indicted an interesting point: The Flywheel. I also checked the "dogbone shafts" on my E7s. There is a great deal of "sliding" freeplay. So it does seem like the drive train is the culprit. I haven't even disassembled the trucks yet as I don't have diagrams.
(Wish I could get one!)

Why not consider giving his suggestons a try?

I would rather keep the Roco motor as it is a quallity brand and has the muscle to pull heavy loads at speed, if desired.

To everyone; Thanks so much for your input! It is very helpful!

[;)][8D][:D][:)][:p][^][swg][tup]

[joseph2]

Thanks for the ball joint tip.So Model Power made E7,E9,any B units ?,RF16A and B, and I remember seeing a FA made by them in an old catalog.

[Eddystone]

I have 2 HO Model Power E-9's, I am also familiar with the growl they make. If I run mine with the shell off and put slight drag on the flywheel with my finger the noise stops. I thought the noise was coming from the motor and was going to replace it, even though it runs great, just too much noise. Anybody out there ever quieted one of these down?

[Anonymous]

While we're on the topic of older Con-Cor products, does anyone have any information on the N-scale F3s they made which used a Fleischmann chassis? I have one in GN livery which is a great runner - interestingly Fleischmann are still using the same chassis design today on their German locos (they've added a flywheel, and the block is different (narrower, lower, and with different underframe detail/trucks, but otherwise the same design). I'd be interested to hear when these were made and in roughly what quantities - I've never seen another one since buying mine a few years ago second-hand.

[AntonioFP45]

Jsoderq

Thanks a million! I'm planning on working on my E7s as soon as I finish paint/metalizing my Bachmann Metroliners.

Can you tell us more about these Model Power units? When did they stop making the E units and why?

Thanks again![swg][tup]

[jsoderq]

Having worked for Concor at the time, I will pass along some info on these units. Concor did not acquire the tooling - we bought parts from Roco. The tooling certainly was not worn out as the parts were every bit as good as original. Some units were partially assembled in Mexico and some were done in Arizona. Most of the noise comes from the drive line parts - specifically the fit of the dogbone and sockets. If you take time to clean flash and fit the ball joints to the sockets they will run better and much quieter. Also make sure the body does not touch the motor as that large body will resonate like a drum. Also shimming the gears in the trucks ala Athearn will make them run better. Both the worm gears and idlers need to be shimmed.

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks a lot, Nfmisso! [;)][:D]

I've searched but I still can't find the paperwork or diagram on the Model Power E7.
(I lost a lot of stuff when I got married and moved out of my parents home in 1987 ).

It's good to know that this is a Roco motor. Roco's reputation speaks for itself. I erroneously assumed it was a "higher amp" motor because of its "gargantuan" size and it's applications in O scale locomotives. I appreciate the info on the flywheel and axle assemblies.

A good friend of mine showed me how to perform the "current stall test" for DCC. Hopefully with a tune up the amp draw will be low. He also suggested that I check the drive shaft as a loose fit can also be a noise contributor.

Hopefully Proto Power West-A Line has a compatible flywheel available. Since sound is my goal I definetly want to lower the "growl" level as I would prefer to hear the sound of an EMD 567 coming from "under the hood".

Considering the time period this model was manufactured, the body is pretty decent with the basic detail. The one feature I find distracting is the placement of the body retainer screw on the roof! Nothing that some body putty or fiberglass resin couldn't take care of. Cmarchan has suggested that I look at the lower body section, particularly the pilot area where a small hole for a thin screw or pin could be drilled out and put in place.

Thanks again! [swg][tup]

[Anonymous]

Ya, I've got one. It's undec, and I know what you mean about growl, but you know something, it sounds like the real thing, a little.

[nfmisso]

The current draw on those big Roco motors is rather low. These models were built by Roco, just like the first Atlas diesels, and the recent P2K 2-8-8-2. ConCor acquired the tooling along with the ex Atlas GP38, GP40, SD24 and SD35, and move it to Mexico. The tooling was basically worn out when the acquired it.

NWSL has replacement axle assemblies for when that motor spins the gears on the axles.

A big part of the noise issue is the flywheel, it is a die casting, and needs to be balanced, or replaced with a machined wrought one.

The detail is not as nice as the P2K, but it more than matches the pulling power. For even more pull, put on a Cary E-unit shell http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/cary/cary.htm