p2k gear replacement ,is it easy ?

[BIG JERR]

just wondering if this is difficult to do say in a fa 2unit, any done this ? lookin 2 some older units with problem gears

[jrbernier]

1. Turn unit over
2. Pop off lower gearbox cover
3. Swap out geared wheel set
4. Replace cover
5. Put engine back on the track

Jim

[CPrail]

Also don't forget to set your wheels with a proper NMRA Standards gage, then you have to only take it apart once,should take you all of 5 minutes to do an engine.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

 It's a piece of cake. I've done 2 of those FA type locos and it didn't take me more than 3 minutes for each one. If you can't get the Proto gears Athearn gears work great.

[Packer]

It's a cakewalk. just make sure the one you are replacing are actually cracked. If you twist the wheels in opposite directions and they turn, it's cracked. Supposedly some axles are right and some are wrong with these units. However, I actually use the cracked ones for in athearn dummies so I can use them for sound dummies.

[N737AA]

The Athearn dummy gears won't work unless you sand down the journal, its wider on the dummies.

[MisterBeasley]

Yeah, it's an easy job.  I would plan on adding grease.  I use Labelle grease for mine.  It's formulated specifically for the combinations of metal and plastic that you find in model trains.  Have a tube around when you do the job, so you'll only have to open the gearboxes up once.

[grizlump9]

Your post hit a tender spot with me.  I recently called Walthers and told them that i had over a dozen p2k GP7 and GP9 locomotives and that 9 of them were out of service due to cracked axle gears.  The guy in customer service said 3 bucks a pair, how many did i want?  I replied I thought these had a lifetime warranty and he said, "a LIMITED lifetime warranty"   In order to get any help with the defective products, I had to prove I was the original purchaser,  furnish a copy of the retail sales receipt, and send them the old parts.  Some of these engines are new in the box from years ago. He went on to say, they had given out 20000 of these gears since they took over lifelike and they were not going to do it any more.  When I asked for his supervisor, I was told that she was not available and he would have her call me back but he knew she would not overrule him.  I am still waiting for that call.  A fine way to treat a loyal customer who orders something almost every month.  I never saw anything in Model Railroader about this problem but since Walthers is one of their biggest advertisers as well as a close neighbor, what would you expect?  I have been in this hobby over 50 years and Walthers is not the outfit they were when WK and Bruce ran the place.  I may just be bull headed but I think I will try NWSL and buy the gears from them regardless of cost.  Once again we see what happens when the Chinese get involved.  They even have problems with milk and dog food.   As for now, no more Wathers products on my layout.

Grizlump 

[rrinker]

 Ouch. I hope this was just a misunderstanding. When my first FP-7 cracked a gear, it was before Walthers had bought them out, and when I called they shipped out 4 new gearsets right away, no questions asked.

 This is a big problem with the hobby now consolidated into essentially 2 companies, Walthers and Horizon. If you want to get your product out there, you have to deal with one or the other. And since they two biggest distributors have swallowed up the biggest producers (Athearn, Life-Like, MDC, etc), if you want to sell any of those highly popular products, you have to play the game their way. Atlas is the last major hold out, and apparantly still sells to small 'basement' dealers - as I'v noticed at the last two train shows I was at, the small dealers no longer carry any Athearn or P2K products, mostly just Atlas. Because at least with Walthers, I don't believe you can become a seller unless you have a storefront or at least an incorporated business. The excuse is that this saves the brick and mortar shops - in reality it is HURTING this hobby.

                                            --Randy

[cudaken]

grizlump9

Your post hit a tender spot with me.  I recently called Walther's and told them that i had over a dozen p2k GP7 and GP9 locomotives and that 9 of them were out of service due to cracked axle gears.  The guy in customer service said 3 bucks a pair, how many did i want?  I replied I thought these had a lifetime warranty and he said, "a LIMITED lifetime warranty"

 Grizlump9, $3.00 a pair seems a little high ( I use Athearn and get 6 pairs for $3.00) just be happy you can still get them. Being a car guy at heart I remember fitghting of a swarm of Horents in a junk yard to get drums for my 68 Road Runner. If you called and they told you it was a out of services part, then get mad.

              Cuda Ken

[modelmaker51]

grizlump9

I may just be bull headed but I think I will try NWSL and buy the gears from them regardless of cost. 

NWSL does not have these gears, they only have the wheels with half axels. Your only other source for the gears is Athearn, (gears only - you have to install the proto wheels).

[4merroad4man]

grizlump9

Your post hit a tender spot with me.  I recently called Walthers and told them that i had over a dozen p2k GP7 and GP9 locomotives and that 9 of them were out of service due to cracked axle gears.  The guy in customer service said 3 bucks a pair, how many did i want?  I replied I thought these had a lifetime warranty and he said, "a LIMITED lifetime warranty"   In order to get any help with the defective products, I had to prove I was the original purchaser,  furnish a copy of the retail sales receipt, and send them the old parts.  Some of these engines are new in the box from years ago. He went on to say, they had given out 20000 of these gears since they took over lifelike and they were not going to do it any more.  When I asked for his supervisor, I was told that she was not available and he would have her call me back but he knew she would not overrule him.  I am still waiting for that call.  A fine way to treat a loyal customer who orders something almost every month.  I never saw anything in Model Railroader about this problem but since Walthers is one of their biggest advertisers as well as a close neighbor, what would you expect?  I have been in this hobby over 50 years and Walthers is not the outfit they were when WK and Bruce ran the place.  I may just be bull headed but I think I will try NWSL and buy the gears from them regardless of cost.  Once again we see what happens when the Chinese get involved.  They even have problems with milk and dog food.   As for now, no more Wathers products on my layout.

Grizlump 

This issue has been visited several times before this, notably once wherein either Walthers himself or a letter issued by him was on this board, explaining not only the former policy of free replacements, but the need to alter the policy due to the abuses of it by so many modelers.

I have gladly purchased the replacement wheelsets from Walthers, since they have been reengineered to avoid the breakage problem which plagued the earlier versions.  I also know of many modelers who benefited from the free replacement program and also heard of a few who could be counted among the abusers.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

grizlump9

Once again we see what happens when the Chinese get involved.  They even have problems with milk and dog food.   As for now, no more Wathers products on my layout.

I don't see how the Chinese have anything to do with this other than the original defect came about at a Chinese factory. That has nothing to do with Walther's decision to stop handing the gears out for free. In view of the amount of abuse this was causing (modelers stockpiling gears for example) I applaud their decision. In all other warranties I see it clearly states that proof of purchase and/or proof of original purchase is required. Many warranties are for the use of the original purchaser and are non-transferable. Bachmann has a great warranty program but even they state that proof of purchase is required and in many cases a fee is charged. Does this mean I'm going to stop purchasing their products just because I have to pay for a replacement part? No. That would be like acting like the brat who owns the baseball taking his ball and going home because he can't have his way. So what if I have to pay a few dollars for a package of gears. I've done it before and I'll do it again. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than buying a new loco.

[rrinker]

 So I'm to accept that now I get no warranty because I bought this (old production) GP-7 from a train show reseller and paid cash? This model predates the Walthers aquisition by a long time, but was obviously new and never used (the way P2K locos are packed - it's pretty obvious). At that time, Life-Like would sell to anyone who wanted to be a dealer, none of the restrictions Walthers has. $3 per is a bit much, that's $12 for all 4 axles - and I only paid $25 for the loco!

 To give an example of great service, I have it listed on my web site. I bought an Stewart A-B F7 set on e-bay, back before Bowser bought them. The B unit had a broken step. I called Stewart, expecting to pay for a replacement shell since I bought the unit on e-bay. I explained that to the person who answered the phone, and a few days later a box came in the mail with a repalcement shell for the B unit. Free. Knowing the full story - they still honored the warranty.

 I'm not whining about it. I haven't even run this loco yet, no layout. And when the gears crack (they always do) I'm sure I'll find some way around it. I just see this as yet another example of squeezing out the small independent sellers that we've relied upon in the past. Walthers has every right to run their business as they see fit. You have a right not to buy anything they sell - however this is a problem. They control at least 50% of the products in this hobby. I'm not sure of the logic, I guess try to keep more brick and mortar stores open. I buy at the LHS, I get treated fairly there and so I continue to shop there. But I buy plenty of things online or at train shows as well. The new (couple years at least now) dealer policy has got to be a factor in the declining of train shows - how much can you sell at a table if you are restricted in what you can buy?

                                           --Randy

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

rrinker

 So I'm to accept that now I get no warranty because I bought this (old production) GP-7 from a train show reseller and paid cash? This model predates the Walthers aquisition by a long time, but was obviously new and never used (the way P2K locos are packed - it's pretty obvious). At that time, Life-Like would sell to anyone who wanted to be a dealer, none of the restrictions Walthers has. $3 per is a bit much, that's $12 for all 4 axles - and I only paid $25 for the loco!

You obviously misunderstood. 1 pack of gears is $3. There are 6 gears to a pack. 1 pack will replace all the gears in your loco.

As far as buying online or at the LHS goes, I have to go 60 miles to get to the nearest LHS. That's one way. I still have to drive 60 miles to get back home. That's a 120 mile round trip. My car gets 14 miles per gallon. When gas was $3.90 per gallon here it was costing me almost $40 to go to the LHS and back. It would cost far less to buy online unless I was planning to spend a huge amount of money at the LHS which on my small income isn't likely to happen.

[Packer]

I ordered from walthers the other day and got axles to put in a pair of GP30s. It was 12 bucks to replace all 8 axles. So it's $3 bucks a pair of whole assemblies.

Although buying athearn axle gears to put on the P2k half-axles is new to me. How well does it work, since the problem was caused by a half-axle shaft that was too big?

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Packer

Although buying athearn axle gears to put on the P2k half-axles is new to me. How well does it work, since the problem was caused by a half-axle shaft that was too big?

The shaft wasn't too big. The hole in the gear was too small. Putting the Proto half shafts into Athearn gears works rather well. I have several Proto locos here that I;ve done that way and they all run quite well.

[pike-62]

Do they sell just the gears now, or the complete wheel set?

When I got the replacements for for my engines they came as complete wheel sets (two half axles and 1 gear) with two to a pack. Is this what the $3.00 charge is for or is it just for the gears themselves?

As to the abuse, I can attest to it. I was at a show a couple of years ago and overheard a guy bragging to one of his buddies about how many sets that he got. he was using them to re-wheel his athearn fleet. his claim was that over several "claims" to lifelike he acquired over 100 sets (1 set being two axle assemblies per). I also recall at one time seeing several sets being sold on Ebay.

 

One wouls wonder how Walthers would deal with it if one were to send the offending engine back to them for repair. Of course, the shipping each way would negate the cost to purchase the gears.

Dan Pikulski

www.DansResinCasting.com

[MILW Trains]

Good morning everyone,

First, thanks to everyone who has responded or has taken the time to read this post. We felt it best to answer your questions about the wheel exchange policy here, where everyone can share this information. This message was posted to the MR board in response to a similar thread earlier this year, and was also posted on another forum in March of 2008.

Rest assured we’re honoring the terms found on your warranty card for brand-new products; older stock made before 2005 comes with the original Life-Like Limited Lifetime Warranty, while newer Walthers products include a Limited One (1) Year Warranty.

Both cards clearly state:

Warranty terms apply only to the original purchaser/owner

Proof of purchase must be provided

There’s a fee for shipping and handling — Life-Like cards indicate that items returned within 90 days of the original date of purchase are not charged the $5.00 handling fee

Nothing has changed with the warranty, but we have reached a point where we have to administer it the way it was intended.

So, what is a brand-new product? Some dealers still have new-in-the-box, never sold, Life-Like products from earlier production runs, even though some engines were produced nearly 20 years ago! Same is true for Walthers/Life-Like engines made since the 2005 purchase. We’ll honor the warranty that came with your new engine, following the terms on the card. And remember, you may also be protected by your dealer’s return policy if a new item turns out to be defective, so ask before you buy. Many dealers have test tracks too.

But it’s no secret that there’s a huge secondary market for used Life-Like products..

Please note that engines with defective axles were produced by Life-Like before Walthers purchased the company in August of 2005 — cracked gears occurred only on engines with four-axle trucks produced before mid-May of 2001, when the defect was corrected.

There’s no issue with a new engine purchased from any Walthers dealer whether in the store, at a show or from an on-line auction — because you have a warranty card, and a receipt/proof of purchase.

But this changes if you buy from another modeler or a dealer who is selling a pre-owned unit, which is often the case at shows and on-line. Even if the item appears to be new-in-the-box and includes a warranty card, you’re not the original owner. Neither Life-Like’s nor Walthers warranty can be transferred. And no, that’s not just our policy it’s a standard practice for most manufactured goods from appliances to automobiles.

Shortly after we bought Life-Like, we started receiving calls for replacement wheelsets and began looking at how we could best handle the situation.

Bill Walthers started this company and made it successful because he took the time to help other modelers, no matter how big or small their problems — we set great store by that tradition of service, and there was never any question if we would honor the Life-Like warranty. The minute replacement wheels arrived in Milwaukee, they were being mailed out — and still are.

Now at the time, sending out wheels for free without following the terms of the warranty to the letter was the fastest way to help folks who found they had a defective engine. It streamlined the process so we could handle requests faster, you got your engine running sooner— everyone came out a winner.

Far and away the majority of requests were reasonable, usually parts to fix one or two locos. A few folks have big fleets (thanks for your support – we appreciate it!) and we helped them out too. Unfortunately once word gets out you can get something for nothing, it may result in unintended consequences that can ruin it for everyone.

Some people wanted hundreds of wheels “just in case." We also heard of people selling off their extra free wheelsets. Others were using free sets to rework other brands of engines (which by the way, likely voided any warranty on those products). And simply replacing wheelsets may hide or compound other problems in a used engine.

As a result we had to level the playing field as of March 1, 2008. A one-for-one exchange indicates that you’ve checked and found a real problem with a Life-Like product. It also gives everyone an exact number of wheels that are required so modelers who really need wheels can get them without long delays. And, we destroy those defective wheelsets, taking them off the market for good. Proof of purchase indicates a legitimate repair for a new product, and we’re more than happy to keep our word as stated in the terms of your warranty. And most importantly this gives us data we can track on what types, as well as the age of the engines that have a problem.

Now if you still need wheelsets, please give us a call. We don’t bite. Really. We’re ready to help, but all we ask is a little cooperation.

On behalf of everyone at Walthers, thanks for listening.

Lance A. Burton
Senior Writer, Wm. K. Walthers, Inc.

PS – Each replacement does one truck – it includes a pair of fully assembled units with geared axles and wheels, ready to install in your loco.