Those photos of the thre helix are astounding. I think assembling a new DNA string to create a moderate Democrat might be less challenging. Kudos to your club members.
da_kraut markpierce-what is a nolix, an oval helix?
markpierce-what is a nolix, an oval helix?
Frank,
I am just getting started building a basement empire using the "nolix" concept. Basically, my entire mainline, excluding yards and towns with switching areas, climbs at a gentle 1.2% grade as it goes around the room. By the time the mainline makes it around the entire room, it has climbed 16 inches and is now on the next deck. (My track plan can be seen here.)
While I had room to build a decent helix and do not in any way find them intimidating to build, I had several reasons to avoid it. I did not like the idea of having such a long length of track hidden. I wanted to have my towns proportionally spaced as they are on the prototype and the long length of track in a helix would have prevented that from happening. I could have build a 42 inch radius helix, but at 3.5 inches of climb per revolution and 4.5 turns to climb 16 inches, I would have a steeper 1.3% grade anyway and almost 100 feet of hidden mainline in the helix. I could go with a tighter radius (and the resulting steeper grade) to climb faster with less length, but then I may not be able to have the 30+ freight car trains pulled by single steamers that I desire.
Depending upon your layout space, you may be able to use a "nolix" too. If you have 100 feet of mainline that is not a yard or switching area, you could use the "nolix" concept with a 1.5% grade and an 18 inch deck spacing. Of course all levels need to be climbing at approximately the same places or you'll have areas where the two decks are more or less than 18 inches apart.
Eric
Having recently closed in an 8'x28' front porch,I am in the process of constructing a 3 level model of selected LDE's on the GN Cascade Division from Everett up to the West Portal of the Cascade Tunnel. At one end of the room I am building a 33" r. helix, doing roadbed, cork, and track on each tier as I build it. At 2.2% it comes out about 4" rise per tier. I have done some experimenting and find that one Proto1000 GP7 will satisfactorily pull 25 cars(all 36-40 footers) up the helix. More cars requires another unit. I also have a pair of E-7's pulling the 12 car (all 85 footers) Empire Builder again, no problems, Mate! The entry and exit of the helix are easements that include the vertical transition with the curvature transition, so the streamliner just flows into it! John Colley, Port Townsend, WA
da_kraut cv-acr-You guys rock. Seen your layout a few times when you have open house and loved it each time. Hoping that the next time you have an open house my work schedule will allow me to come for a visit. Have a number of questions for your guys. Loco-when there is the next self guided layout tour in 2009 it is a real treat to see the http://www.wrmrc.ca/links.html layout in operation. It is the Double Header self guided layout tour in the Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph, Cambridge and surrounding area. Well worth a visit and worth the tank of fuel and low admission.
cv-acr-You guys rock. Seen your layout a few times when you have open house and loved it each time. Hoping that the next time you have an open house my work schedule will allow me to come for a visit. Have a number of questions for your guys.
Loco-when there is the next self guided layout tour in 2009 it is a real treat to see the http://www.wrmrc.ca/links.html layout in operation. It is the Double Header self guided layout tour in the Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph, Cambridge and surrounding area. Well worth a visit and worth the tank of fuel and low admission.
Been a little while since I've been back to this thread.
Hey da_kraut, glad you've enjoyed our layout. We'll be open for the next Doubleheaders Tour (http://www.doubleheaders.org), which is a week and a half from now, on Saturday march 28.
Our own Open House is in the fall, the weekend after Canadian Thanksgiving. This year that will be Oct. 17th 2009. http://www.wrmrc.ca/openhouse.html
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
I have designed several HO scale multi deck layouts using a helix. One layout I designed for a friend has two, one is 4 turns the other almost seven.
They are double track, 36" minimum radius, and built by similar methods to those discribed/show by others here.
The grade works out to 1.8% and we have had no problem pulling trains as long as 80-100 cars. In fact my Broadway N&W Class A easily pulled a 80 car train up and down both.
Pullng long trains, helex or not, requires good rolling stock standards, as well as good track work. I have not seen where any suitible helix design would limit train length.
I do believe that radii less than 36" starts to restrict train length and creates grades that are to extreme. 30" would seem the bare minimum for ANY HO helix in my mind.
Three of the layouts in our local group have at least one helix, they all work well. Two others under construction have plans for a helix or two.
Sheldon
the one thing I don't like for a helix is the hidden running, on the club layout I was in we installed not a helix but a longer run between 2 stations, but that meant making a hidden run out of sight for a few minutes, I didnt like that kind of running, but that layout is torn up now.
I'm tring to stay away from helixes doing the "No-Lix idea to raise height keeping track in sight. It may make something of a spaghetti bowl of track in one area but it would be virtually all visible and scenicked, and also I will be trying an "Unhidden Track" idea, where the track might come outside of the modules in the operating areas nestled against the module raising or lowering in height.
Plexiglass protection required...
Someone made a helix on a 4x8 in an MR article, quite an engineering feat.
I am not afraid to use 3% grades, as much of my running is meant for mountain running, N&W style, Y6Bs in doubleheader and pusher runs.
I like visible track too. But the problem is how much line do you need and how to you cramp it into your space. You can use a peninsula and meandering.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
I've been pondering this issue for a while. I've just started planning my next layout. The dimensions are already fixed - 30"x120" in N scale, with one of those long sides against a wall. I want the theme to be a short line interchange with the PRR. Maybe a small logging or coal provider. I was thinking of using a helix to get to the logging or small mining area. This would be built up with foam (not a separate level). But I am not sure I want to lose that much area on one end of the layout for the helix. I'm thinking that a nolix which loops around a bit may get me the same height - and save some of that corner space for visible track. Not sure which way to go.
Dinwitty:
I agree with you about the hidden running. My new N scale layout will be a 3 level 36 X 12.5 foot u shape with a center island. To get from the staging level at 26 inches to the lower level (Valley Sub - 36"at the helix and from the upper level (Mountain Sub) at 60", I will use a double track helix under the stairs (the outer track will have a 20" radius and run to the lower level, and the inner track will be 18" radius to the upper level (both will be 2% grades).. The run from the Valley to the Mountain subdivisions will be via a nolix. To assist in getting from the Valley to the Mountain subs, the valley sub will rise to 40" around the center island and then rise up from there. There will be 2 routes to the mountain sub the old (Transcon line with a steep 2.77% grade and the new (San Juan Line with a 2.08% grade.
The helix will be used only to get to and from staging. NO hidden running.
Thoughts on helix.
1. If one is going to all the effort to make a helix, make it double track. I operate on two layouts where they made only a single track helix. Both have become design bottlenecks. It is too hard to add a second track later. Also even if one only needs one track, suppose it goes out of service for whatever reason. With two there is a spare.
2. If there is room make it as many tracks as possible and make the extra tracks double as a staging area. The majority of the space is consumed, why not use just a bit more and make it more space efficient.
3. Make certain the layout is big enough for a helix. On one layout that I run on, the engineer picks up the train in hidden staging, travels to a hidden helix and goes up, crosses the layout, goes back down a helix on the other side. 72% of the run of the train is in the helix another 10% in staging. So only 18% of the run is visible and enjoyable.
4. Make the helix rock solid. Sub-roadbed of 3/4" plywood, roadbed of something appropriate for the climate. Helix made with lesser materials seem to like to shift and eventually cause problems. Our club helix was made of 1/2" plywood on 1x2 side mounted risers. Worked great for about 15 years, now it is a maintenance nightmare. This is were a fellow member ran my brand new BLI California Zephyr onto the floor.
5. Track has to be perfect. It is too hard to get into the close spaces and fix stuff. Likewise derailments are not fun.
These two helix are 34" inside 36" outside. The first two pictures are the same helix.
After looking at railroadyoshi's handy work, I'm convinced not to build a helix! Way too much work and space required. Great job though.
Dennis
Hello all,
I have been reading this thread with great interest. Quite a lot of track plans in MR incorporate a helix, as a space saving way to gain height. Building a helix that will not give you a headche is some tasks. A friend of mine tore down his layout after working for 7 years on it due to the two helices he had built having to steep a gradient at a to small radius. It was ok with the 4-wheeled freight cars of European prototype, but the passenger cars always derailed at scale speeds of more than 10mph.
In my new layout I will avoid helices!
Sir Madog Hello all, I have been reading this thread with great interest. Quite a lot of track plans in MR incorporate a helix, as a space saving way to gain height. Building a helix that will not give you a headche is some tasks. A friend of mine tore down his layout after working for 7 years on it due to the two helices he had built having to steep a gradient at a to small radius. It was ok with the 4-wheeled freight cars of European prototype, but the passenger cars always derailed at scale speeds of more than 10mph. In my new layout I will avoid helices!
I suggest the lesson is that one should avoid a layout with curves and grades which won't accommodate the rolling stock and anticipated operations. Curves and grades are not unique to helixes, don't you know.
Mark
Don't get me wrong. Personally, I'm not a fan of helixes which contain a train for many minutes while running. I think of them as a "last ditch effort" to get what one wants out of a given space. It is at its "best" if it is at the beginning/ending of a train's run, or a place to park trains for a while before returning to operating them, but that scheme may not fit many helix-layout schemes. The double-deck layout I built in 1967 had a nolix, not a helix, thank goodness, and there is no helix in my future plans.