IF your engine is picking the points CHAMFERING is the best answer..
Some maufcturers. don't do this as it raises the cost..
Below is a Goal.
http://www.proto87.com/turnout-points-and-throwbars.html
I understand now, Tim. As the others have said, you must do two things: ensure no obstruction is preventing the throwbar or the points, themselves, from lying flush with the inner flange face of the stock rails. The stock rails are the two longest contiguous rails on any one turnout. The throwbar is the sliding bar that keeps the points from flopping all over the place.
Good light, magnification, and patience will soon show you if the turnout has material or constructive problems that are preventing the points and their throwbar from doing what they are meant to do. You may profit from something like a ground throw or a electro-mechanical actuating device like a Tortoise or a Blue Point machine.
The other thing to do is to take a wooden match piece and place it between either point rail and its stock rail. Then, using a clean and sharp needle file, gentley press against the flange face and tip of the point and file it at an angle, a very shallow angle, so that there is nothing left but a knife edge there. Once you achieve that, it may suffice if the throwbar's throw is not part of the problem. You'll soon know once you try it out.
-Crandell
timbob My dad and I thought that the flange caught the blunt edge of the pionts. My dad thought that we should file the points so they would match flush with the rail. Any suggestions would be apreciated.
My dad and I thought that the flange caught the blunt edge of the pionts. My dad thought that we should file the points so they would match flush with the rail. Any suggestions would be apreciated.
Yes, the point needs to meet flush with the rail. If the point is blunt, file it. You also need to make sure there isn't anyhting preventing the point from closing. Sometimes I get a piece of ballast caught in there and it will derail everything. You can use a toothbrush (not your dads) to clean out the points real good.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
Try this diagram:
Bump........no takers?
tim
el-capitan timbob When ever I run the train into the switch the flange of the engine or car catches on the frog and the frog gets messed up and the train derails. What do you mean "the frog gets messed up" ? Are you sure you are talking about the frog? Because the frog does not move. It is stationary. I don't see how the frog can get messed up. The points move. Are the points getting "messed up"?
timbob When ever I run the train into the switch the flange of the engine or car catches on the frog and the frog gets messed up and the train derails.
When ever I run the train into the switch the flange of the engine or car catches on the frog and the frog gets messed up and the train derails.
What do you mean "the frog gets messed up" ? Are you sure you are talking about the frog? Because the frog does not move. It is stationary. I don't see how the frog can get messed up. The points move. Are the points getting "messed up"?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge. I guess the points move. Could someone please clarify what a frog is. I always thought it was the moving part of the turnout.
Crandell: It has nothing to do with the track before it. I know it is not the train because it happens with all the cars and engines.
One time when it caused a mass pile up I removed the train cars and discovered that the part that moves(don't know what it is called) was not aligned with either track. My dad and I thought that the flange caught the blunt edge of the pionts. My dad thought that we should file the points so they would match flush with the rail. Any suggestions would be apreciated.
Count yourself lucky if it's only one.Your options are to fix it yourself or replace it..Bachmann switches seem contain more problems than most..
I'd suggest IF the latter, to replace it with a different brand - one that is electrically similar. (since that incules rroadbed it will include sawing)..
I'd suugest you contact 'SPACE MOUSE' or JEFF WIMBERLY (somebody that has actually worked on these)...
I was wondering the same thing about the 'frog' myself. It may be that the wheels are 'picking' the points because they are not flush against the rail when they move. Filing the points a little on the top will usually put them fast against the rail, so that when the cars go through the switch, there is little or no chance of the wheels picking the point and riding up over the point rails.
This is fairly common with commercial mass produced turnouts. I've ended up filing the points a little on all of my turnouts, even the Sinohara's that I use extensively. Since then, I've had very few derailment problems.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Tim, whenever I have a derailment problem in one spot, I have learned to do two things first...others have their own first things to do, I am sure, but this works for me: I gauge the item derailing, and I gauge the tracks at that spot...but also for the previous 8" because often, especially with long wheelbased steamers, the derailment happens due to something happening back along the boiler, nearer the cab. The next thing I do is find something with a flat surface, something planar like a well milled plank section. I place that atop the rails at the affected area, and shine a flashlight at rail height, but from the back...I get my head down to track level and shine the light towards me, with the plank or whatever in between. I can often see low spots, or a hump because light shines through in an obvious way suggesting that the rails are not following the average grade at that spot. Bad news, especially for 8-coupled and higher steamers, and often for the articulated ones, too. My Lionel Challenger was the first engine I got that humbled me. The problem turned out to be a #5 snap switch made by EZ-Track. It wask tilted, or maybe it was able to sag or something, but the Challenger didn't like its orientation once the weight of the rear engine began to take effect...the front popped out of the rails.
Thanks for the response. I think I get it. I don't know what you mean by the backlighting thing. I will try filling the frog first and if that doesn't work than I will try the guard.
It is a possibility, but just as likely is the fact that many commercial turnouts don't have guard rails and wings that are the proper distance from their intended adjacents. Often what ends up being the cure is that a thin sliver of styrene, perhaps 10-15 thou thick, has to be glued onto the flange face of the guard, thus closing the distance between it and the closest flange face. In most cases, it is the guard next to the stock rail on the main axis being taken. If diverging, you would place this "shim" of styrene on the guard next to the curved stock rail that comprises one of the two rails forming the diverging path. What the shim does is forces the outer wheel that much closer to the stock rail, and away from the frog point that you feel is too blunt, and your problem disappears.
Again, it might be that, it might be a frog point that is too high. Either way, the cure should now be apparent...once you have it nailed down (place a stiff, very planar surface over the frog and backlight it...see if the frog is high and is completely dark, while light shows all around between the planar surface and the other nearby rail tops) and either grind down the frog point a wee bit, or place a guard shim on the affected guard opposite the frog.
I hope I haven't confused you.
Sorry i can't give you a picture. My parents left the camera at a friends house. The derailment happens with every loco and car so I would asume that the cars aren't the problem. The frog does appear to be higher than the rail. The difference in height is probubly the thickniss of paper. The frog seems not to be flush with the rail it is touching. It is like putting a piece of cardstock on a piece of paper. The paper is the rail and the frog is the cardstock. My dad and I think the frog has such a blunt tip that the flange gets in between the rail and the frog which causes the frog to get messed up, which unfortunately derails the train.
Tim, we don't really know since we can't see what you are talking about. Is the tip high? Are the guards in compliance with recommended practises (NMRA)? How about the wheels....are their flanges in compliance with RP-25? Have you gauged the axles to ensure compliance with NMRA standards? Are the couplers/hooks the right curvature and height? Is the frog filled on this turnout, and if so, is it filled to high?
A good quality photo would do wonders.
Hi
My layout is made with n scale Bachmann E-Z track. One particular turnout has been giving me problems. When ever I run the train into the switch the flange of the engine or car catches on the frog and the frog gets messed up and the train derails. I was woundering if the simple sollution is to file the tip of the frog so it lies flush against the rail. I would appreciat any suggestions.