Scratchbuilding...

[citylimits]

Quote: I'm still trying to figure out what "solipsitic" means.

 

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This

sol·ip·sism      (sŏl'ĭp-sĭz'əm, sō'lĭp-)  Pronunciation Key  n.   Philosophy The theory that the self is the only thing that can be known and verified. The theory or view that the self is the only reality. [Latin sōlus, alone; see s(w)e- in Indo-European roots + Latin ipse, self + -ism.] sol'ip·sist n., sol'ip·sis'tic adj.

Enlitenment is just a Google shot away

Cheers.

Bruce

[marknewton]

Well, for some good scratchbuilding advice, look in "The Boy's Book of Model Railroading" by Raymond F. Yates. You'll have to adjust the proportions for HO scale but it's good.

I wonder how useful a book published in 1951 would really be today, since it would predate the availability of styrene, ABS, lost-wax castings, photo-etching, custom decals, and many more products and raw materials we now take for granted. Still, I haven't seen it, so it may well be something worth having. Anyone else here seen it?

Cheers,

Mark.

[citylimits]

Whew, I'm glad that's all over now and you've all made up to one another.

It was kind of like watching a Friday night bar fight that had spilled out onto the street outside - some insults, misinterpretations and misunderstandings of what had been said, some stepping on a few sensitivities, a few wild swings that found home and then common sense prevailing at the end with some good on yer, mate, kind of back slapping - perhaps even some additional acknowledgement of another guys point of view with the return of fraternal feelings of well being replacing earlier pronouncements delivered from a high horse. And now we're all happy and a bit warn out from it all - exhausted and pleased to be able to return home again in one piece perhaps some a little bloodied and worse for wear, yet knowing that no matter what endeavors we pursue to make us happy there will always be some lone gunman out there oiling up his Peacemaker ready to take a shot at what we enjoy doing and endeavor to produce.

Semantics is just bullshit dressed up in a big girls blouse.

Cheers

Bruce (I don't know beans about scratchbuilding, but if it looks good then model it)

[gunkhead]

Well, for some good scratchbuilding advice, look in "The Boy's Book of Model Railroading" by Raymond F. Yates. You'll have to adjust the proportions for HO scale but it's good.

[wm3798]

Bad eyes are an advantage in any scale... Everything looks good!  Those *** digital cameras take all the fun out of it, though!

Thanks also for your kind words...

Lee

[marknewton]

Well, I "scratchbuild" my station.

At my How To you see the parts and my tools.

Wolfgang

Very nice work, too, Wolfgang. Your "how to" pages are a good example of demonstrating techniques and methods - very clear and concise, I reckon.

All the best,

Mark.

[marknewton]

Mark,

Thanks for showing those magnificent photos.  Also thank you for clarifying your point.  I can certainly appreciate the work you put into those projects, and thought that goes into that work.

Since you put up, I'll shut up!

Lee

Lee, thank you for the compliments, I do appreciate them. But I wouldn't want you to "shut up", your contributions to this thread have been valuable, and the examples of your work you've posted are very inspiring. I'm always impressed by blokes like yourself, doing high quality work in N scale. As much as I've been tempted over the years by N, it's not something I think I'd want to do. If nothing else, my eyes just aren't what they used to be!

All the best,

Mark.

[marknewton]

"Run off these boards"? You're just being a big girls blouse when you carry on like that.
Mark.

LOL, You have to explain to us Americans what that phrase means.

Geez, I can't turn my back for a minute

Frank, it's a phrase used to describe someone who is a bit of a wimp, someone who goes off and has a cry when things don't go their way. I believe the phrase originates in Scotland, but it's popular here as well.

Sorry, I guess I didn't really know the "true" definition of scratchbuilding when it comes to NMRA rules. I should also apologize for my truely amateur built structure. It was actually my first scratchbuild, certainly not contest worthy. I'm not done detailing or weathering it into the scene yet either, so again please ignore the obvious. Thanks Mark for your explanation's regarding your idea of scratchbuilding. It gives us amateurs hope.

Mate, you have nothing to apologise for. I think you did very well, especially if it's your first scratchbuilt structure. My first few buildings didn't look anywhere near as good. We all had to start somewhere, so don't write yourself of as an amateur, that's all most of us are.

All the best,

Mark.

[marknewton]

Agreed. Turning metal is a lot of fun, too. I haven't done much of it, except in the classroom, where we were making those ever-popular nesting-tool sets as a training exercise. It was still fun. One of these days I need to scare up a lathe.

The fun is the best reason to do any hobby. As for the risk or probability of some failure, sure, it's there, and sure, we have to pick our battles. Still, I have always felt that fear or uncertainty about something new is usually a good reason to jump right in, as long as it isn't stupid or dangerous. Break the eggs and maybe make the omelet.

Absolutely, AP, couldn't agree more. I was as nervous as all get out when I started modelling Japanese railways, not really knowing much at all, but I've never regretted that decision.

As for a lathe, I don't know what the situation is in the US, but here you can pick up good second-hand machine tools quite cheaply. It seems these days no-one wants anything other than CNC machines. My mate Bear, who is the chief mechanical officer at the Richmond Vale Railway, recently bought a big Kearns horizontal boring machine from a defunct engineering company in Newcastle for $400 - probably not even scrap value. At the same sale he got a Cincinnati tool sharpener for $50! Was I envious or what?

Cheers,

Mark.

[selector]

My apologies.

For "forebearance":

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forbearance

For "reductio ad absurdum":

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reductio%20ad%20absurdum

For "ad hominem":

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem

For "solipsistic":

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/solipsistic

 

They are all terms used in philosophy, principally in the study of formal logic and ethics.

-Crandell

 

[Driline]

steemtrayn, I'm pretty sure its Canadian Beer.

[steemtrayn]

This has been an interesting discussion, and I appreciate the forebearance of all who are active in it to this point.  Strong emotions and convictions expressed here, which should, if nothing else, demonstrate how acutely personal and invasive this hobby is for all of us into our lives.  For some of us, our hobby and its creations, no matter how we approached them, define us in some meaningful way.  Unfortunately, it also causes a certain rigidity in thought, and we get our dander up when someone challenges our notions about the hobby as we severally relate to it.

I don't do scratchbuilding.  Yet.  But I sure admire the creations of folks like Frank and Lee and Mark.  Each of those persons does what he does for different reasons, as should be clear from the exchanges, and also from different skill-sets and experience.  No wonder they have marked diversity in their thinking...and in what is rendered thereby.  I think it makes the hobby wonderful in its variety.

Just a side-note; we should refrain from the reductio ad absurdum of insisting, when we are having a difficult time of getting our points across successfully, that only those who actually do the metallurgy and the manufacturing of every single contributory component are worthy of scratchbuilding fame.  At some point, if you want to be recognized by even one other person, you must secure and agreement with that person so that each of you can work together operationally.  It is the same in human rights...you have none unless one other person agrees that you should have them.  Otherwise, the term is meaningless and solipsitic.  If you want NRMA recognition, you will have to dance to their stack of tunes.  If you aren't interested in NMRA recognition, then do as you will and label yourself likewise.  Just don't expect that it will be smooth sailing when you try to find common ground in a discussion with terms that have different meanings in different groups and contexts.

I would like to see less of the other fallacy, as well, of the ad hominem where a person who is arguing a point can't participate unless he has actually built something he is willing to put up as scratchbuilt.  I am not an astronomer by profession, but I can still discuss the proton-proton reaction at the Sun's core and be perfectly correct.  It is enough that I am interested and well-read on the subject, not the irrelevance of my having taken a degree in it or built my own solar telescope.

-Crandell

Crandell, you're using those big words again that us mere mortals find difficult to comprehend. Now I know you hail from a different country, and I can forgive you for that, but is it too much to ask you to speak common English?  

Now because of you I have to have a dictionary at my ready to respond to every post you write.

I'm still trying to figure out what "solipsitic" means.

[Driline]

Hello lee I did not what to go to that extreme but if I have to I will. Have a sawmill down the road I can get pulp from, have a ton of blackberry bushes in the backyard and the guy next door has a duckpond I could get a quill from. But I was just looking for a basic list of stuff. Thanks Frank

Ok, heres' all this amateur used.

1) Sharp exacto knifes, both large and small

2) HO scale metal ruler (MUST HAVE)

3) Testors modelmaster liquid cement (black bottle)

4) Small file

5) SOBO premium craft & fabric glue

 

Thats all I used. Now you can go out and buy those nice "chop" saws and magnetic holders for $100 or more, but  I'd rather spend that money on locomotives.

[Driline]

This has been an interesting discussion, and I appreciate the forebearance of all who are active in it to this point.  Strong emotions and convictions expressed here, which should, if nothing else, demonstrate how acutely personal and invasive this hobby is for all of us into our lives.  For some of us, our hobby and its creations, no matter how we approached them, define us in some meaningful way.  Unfortunately, it also causes a certain rigidity in thought, and we get our dander up when someone challenges our notions about the hobby as we severally relate to it.

I don't do scratchbuilding.  Yet.  But I sure admire the creations of folks like Frank and Lee and Mark.  Each of those persons does what he does for different reasons, as should be clear from the exchanges, and also from different skill-sets and experience.  No wonder they have marked diversity in their thinking...and in what is rendered thereby.  I think it makes the hobby wonderful in its variety.

Just a side-note; we should refrain from the reductio ad absurdum of insisting, when we are having a difficult time of getting our points across successfully, that only those who actually do the metallurgy and the manufacturing of every single contributory component are worthy of scratchbuilding fame.  At some point, if you want to be recognized by even one other person, you must secure and agreement with that person so that each of you can work together operationally.  It is the same in human rights...you have none unless one other person agrees that you should have them.  Otherwise, the term is meaningless and solipsitic.  If you want NRMA recognition, you will have to dance to their stack of tunes.  If you aren't interested in NMRA recognition, then do as you will and label yourself likewise.  Just don't expect that it will be smooth sailing when you try to find common ground in a discussion with terms that have different meanings in different groups and contexts.

I would like to see less of the other fallacy, as well, of the ad hominem where a person who is arguing a point can't participate unless he has actually built something he is willing to put up as scratchbuilt.  I am not an astronomer by profession, but I can still discuss the proton-proton reaction at the Sun's core and be perfectly correct.  It is enough that I am interested and well-read on the subject, not the irrelevance of my having taken a degree in it or built my own solar telescope.

-Crandell

Crandell, you're using those big words again that us mere mortals find difficult to comprehend. Now I know you hail from a different country, and I can forgive you for that, but is it too much to ask you to speak common English?  

Now because of you I have to have a dictionary at my ready to respond to every post you write.

[Driline]

"Run off these boards"? You're just being a big girls blouse when you carry on like that.
Mark.

LOL, You have to explain to us Americans what that phrase means.

Geez, I can't turn my back for a minute

Sorry, I guess I didn't really know the "true" definition of scratchbuilding when it comes to NMRA rules. I should also apologize for my truely amateur built structure. It was actually my first scratchbuild, certainly not contest worthy. I'm not done detailing or weathering it into the scene yet either, so again please ignore the obvious. Thanks Mark for your explanation's regarding your idea of scratchbuilding. It gives us amateurs hope.

[wm3798]

Mark,

Thanks for showing those magnificent photos.  Also thank you for clarifying your point.  I can certainly appreciate the work you put into those projects, and thought that goes into that work.

Since you put up, I'll shut up!

Lee

[marknewton]

Yes, absolutely, which is why I thought it was churlish of cf7 to dismiss Driline's structure as not being scratchbuilt.

Ahhh - and you are the king of churlishness!  Mark, I really wish you would sit back and read what you type before you post it.  You might be surprised in that you don't come across as the be-all-end-all of model railroading authority that you seem to think you are.

Old mate, you wouldn't have the faintest idea what I think, so I'll give you the SP - I know full well I'm not the "be-all-end-all" of anything. But I do think my skills, knowledge and experience probably trump yours, hence the aggro...

If you will read in my original post, I said that Driline had build a nice structure.  How is that looking down on it?

Spin, spin, spin. I know what you wrote, and the implied criticism is unmistakeable.

I was really going to let thiis go, but you won't let me go back to lurking!

Don't blame me for what you're doing - for a bloke who keeps saying he's leaving, you've had more comebacks than Nellie Melba.

Mark.

[selector]

This has been an interesting discussion, and I appreciate the forebearance of all who are active in it to this point.  Strong emotions and convictions expressed here, which should, if nothing else, demonstrate how acutely personal and invasive this hobby is for all of us into our lives.  For some of us, our hobby and its creations, no matter how we approached them, define us in some meaningful way.  Unfortunately, it also causes a certain rigidity in thought, and we get our dander up when someone challenges our notions about the hobby as we severally relate to it.

I don't do scratchbuilding.  Yet.  But I sure admire the creations of folks like Frank and Lee and Mark.  Each of those persons does what he does for different reasons, as should be clear from the exchanges, and also from different skill-sets and experience.  No wonder they have marked diversity in their thinking...and in what is rendered thereby.  I think it makes the hobby wonderful in its variety.

Just a side-note; we should refrain from the reductio ad absurdum of insisting, when we are having a difficult time of getting our points across successfully, that only those who actually do the metallurgy and the manufacturing of every single contributory component are worthy of scratchbuilding fame.  At some point, if you want to be recognized by even one other person, you must secure and agreement with that person so that each of you can work together operationally.  It is the same in human rights...you have none unless one other person agrees that you should have them.  Otherwise, the term is meaningless and solipsitic.  If you want NRMA recognition, you will have to dance to their stack of tunes.  If you aren't interested in NMRA recognition, then do as you will and label yourself likewise.  Just don't expect that it will be smooth sailing when you try to find common ground in a discussion with terms that have different meanings in different groups and contexts.

I would like to see less of the other fallacy, as well, of the ad hominem where a person who is arguing a point can't participate unless he has actually built something he is willing to put up as scratchbuilt.  I am not an astronomer by profession, but I can still discuss the proton-proton reaction at the Sun's core and be perfectly correct.  It is enough that I am interested and well-read on the subject, not the irrelevance of my having taken a degree in it or built my own solar telescope.

-Crandell

[marknewton]

I'm sure Mark is a craftsman of the highest order.  But for the benefit of those of us who may not have basked in the glow of his work, I think it's only fair for him to back up his bluster with some photographic evidence.

It's a pity you can't distinguish between bluster and being forthright. The evidence has been put up, as requested...

Lord knows we see enough also-ran work on these pages, it would be nice to see a genuine master at work, particularly one who feels so strongly about the superiority of his methods...

Yes, I feel strongly about the superiority of the methods I've developed over the years - why shouldn't I ? I've arrived at them after a lot or effort, trial and error. Along the way I've discarded the methods that don't work, and refined those that do. What I've got now works for me, and that's all that counts. I don't expect for a minute that anybody else should use them. They should develop their own that are appropriate for their level of skill and interest. I was responding to the sarcastic comments Howmus made about making my own wheels, motors etc. To me the funny thing is that there's a lot of people I know apart from myself who do exactly that.

I don't purposefully denigrate anyone else's work

Neither did I. I wasn't the one who said Driline's building wasn't really scratchbuilt...

So come on out of the shadows, Mark.  Blow us all away.

I've never been in the shadows, Lee, as you well know. But I suspect you've already made up your mind about the way I go about my modelling, so I doubt anything I post will impress you. Such is life.

Cheers,

Mark.

[marknewton]

In the interest of fair play and (I hope) heading off some of the unpleasantness I have run into on r.m.r., I want to state that Mark N. does do excellent work, and has posted pictures here now and again. Can we please put the arguments aside? This is a good subject.

Thanks for the compliments, and sticking up for me, AP - I appreciate it!

Cheers,

Mark.

[marknewton]

Mark,

It's time to put up or shut up.  Photos of your handiwork, please.  No excuses.  If you're going to sit in your ivory tower, we'd like to see some evidence.

Thanks.

Lee

As I've stated earlier, you've got the wrong end of the stick. I don't claim for a second to dwell in an ivory tower, I simply state my views as I see them. I usually object greatly to these demands to display work, the implication being that one cannot express an opinion if one's modelling is judged to be substandard. But since you've worked yourself into something approaching a mild tantrum, I'll oblige.



This is my model of Moha564, a Kaetsuno Railway interurban car. It's 1/80th scale, with a body scratchbuilt from ABS and perspex from my own drawings, mostly scratchbuilt details, scratchbuilt power truck with modified commercial wheels, commercial motor and pantograph.



A Chitetsu interurban car, same specification as above. The OHW mast and portals are scratchbuilt from barss and styrene shapes, the depot is a mixture of stripwood, cigar box ply, ABS, perspex and styrene, handlaid track - never again! - and the Subaru 360 is a commercial vehicle from TimeJapan Ra80 collection.



A pair of Chitetsu & Hokuriku interurban cars, as above. Station building and platform scratchbuilt from a mixture of timber, plastic, sand and plaster, while the figures are a mix of modified Preiser, Merten, and some unknown Japanese manufacturer.




Interior of station building and depot. I almost went mad doing these, but they looked quite jazzy when they were finally completed. Timber, plastic, brass, nickel silver, paper, and microscope cover glass.




Back when I was modelling US prototype, I started to detail some Bachmann 2-8-0s for my home road, the Chicago, Peoria & St Louis. This is one of the tenders.




Moving up a scale, this is a 7mm finescale model of a Manning Wardle, one of two that the railway I work for once owned. It is almost entirely scratchbuilt in a mixture of materials, only the motor and gearbox are commercial. I ahd to build my own wheels, as they are quite unusual in design, and nothing commercial came close. Needless to say, shortly after I finished the thing, someone in the UK produced a kit!




In my twenties I built a small layout based on the railway behind my house, also 7mm but in no way finescale... These days it belongs to my nephew - it looks much better now than it ever did when I had it!



Moving up the scales some more, this is a 2" scale live steam model of an Aveling & Porter roller I built when I was an apprentice. It's showing its age, like its builder, but it still runs well. The neighbourhood kids love it! At the time there were no commercial parts available in Australia for models lke this, so the roller is 100% scratchbuilt.




Larger again, two views of my current 5" gauge project, a Beyer, Peacock 4-4-0. It uses a small number of commercial castings and fittings, but is mainly scratchbuilt.



The largest engine I've ever had a hand in building, well, re-building at any rate. NSWGR 3830, seen at East Greta shortly after it returned to service in 1997. My mate Dave Matthews is on the ground trying to keep the crowd at bay while I set back onto the train.

There's more at these pages, when I get a chance over the next few days I'll add some more photos

http://marknewton01.fotopic.net/c139785.html

http://marknewton01.fotopic.net/c1579689_1.html

All the best,

Mark.

[Autobus Prime]

Yes, making your own wheels is great.

But many years ago I decided to buy not a lathe! My points were how much time would it take to learn making good wheels, flywheels and more. How much material would I spoil? You live only once.    

Yes Wolfgang, one chance is all you get. But I didn't really make a conscious decision to get a lathe and start making fiddly bits. It just happened that the things I wanted to model weren't available any way other than by building them myself, and since I was a kid I've had access to machine tools, so I just learnt to make things. For me a lot of the enjoyment is in making things, perhaps more than running them. I get enough of that at work...

As for how much material would you spoil, I'd say a lot. I have, over the years. But that's how you learn any trade or craft, by improving on the last job, and hopefully learning from your mistakes. At least make new mistakes, don't repeat the old ones!

All the best,

Mark.

MN:

Agreed. Turning metal is a lot of fun, too. I haven't done much of it, except in the classroom, where we were making those ever-popular nesting-tool sets as a training exercise. It was still fun. One of these days I need to scare up a lathe.

The fun is the best reason to do any hobby. As for the risk or probability of some failure, sure, it's there, and sure, we have to pick our battles. Still, I have always felt that fear or uncertainty about something new is usually a good reason to jump right in, as long as it isn't stupid or dangerous. Break the eggs and maybe make the omelet.

[dehusman]

One challenge to scratchbuilding is the availability of various supplies.

This has been a scary summer.  Herald King went out of business years ago, Champ is trying to go out of business.  On the early rail front, Art Griffin decals almost went out of business, Clover House is up for sale, Westerfield is up for sale.  Scratchbuilding cars isn't as useful if you can't letter them.  On the locomotive side NWSL was up for sale. Some of these companies have come through OK, but they point out how thin the supply chain is for some supplies.

Another problem for scratchbuilding is that kids aren't being taught the basics of how to use tools.  I have 3 kids and none of them have taken a shop class in high school.  the academic tracks are focused on "college prep" and virtually ignore practical skills.

For all those challenges, in some ways this is the best of times.  There are more tools available now, just peruse the Micro-Mark catalog.  Materials are better than ever, styrene, RTV, resin make scratchbuilding easier (although I occaisionally have an urge to make something out of Strathmore Board).  Steam engine details are harder to find, but car parts are better than ever, today's plastic castings are more detailed than the white metal castings of years gone by and even better than some brass castings.

A critical element that is the best its ever been is information.  There are more plans, detials, informations, pictures, etc out there because of the web than ever before.

Dave H.

[cf-7]

Yes, absolutely, which is why I thought it was churlish of cf7 to dismiss Driline's structure as not being scratchbuilt.

Ahhh - and you are the king of churlishness!  Mark, I really wish you would sit back and read what you type before you post it.  You might be surprised in that you don't come across as the be-all-end-all of model railroading authority that you seem to think you are.

If you will read in my original post, I said that Driline had build a nice structure.  How is that looking down on it?  

I was really going to let thiis go, but you won't let me go back to lurking!

[marknewton]

The fact is, Autobus, is we are both on the same side of the discussion here...  I think it's pretty presumptuous of someone to look down their nose at a project because they don't think it's scratch built "enough"...

You have the wrong end of the stick, Lee. I got stuck into cf7 for displaying that attitude towards Driline's structure. I don't look down on anyone's project for a spurious reason like that. You'll note that I've consistently stated that I don't think there is a universal definition of scratchbuilding, and that I also don't think that people's various definitions are valid for anyone other than themselves.

My comments about the NMRA definition as applied to locos was in the context of contests and the AP. I understand why they define scratchbuilding the way they do, I just don't agree with it. And I don't think it is all that relevant to the wider modelling community. That doesn't alter the fact that I've been very impressed by the quality of scratchbuilt models I've seen at NMRA meets, even if they did use commercial parts in their construction. As I've repeatedly stated, I don't think the distinctions being made are all that important, whether by me or anyone else.

Scratchbuildling doesn't mean you have to be doing brain surgery and fabricating every little thing, or at least it shouldn't.  It's another way for a hobbyist to expand his/her horizons, acquire some new skills, and get a result that is truly unique.  I believe that should be the goal of any hobby.

And on this point you and I are on the same side of the argument. They are precisely the reasons I do things the way I do.

All the best,

Mark.

[marknewton]

Is it really that important to define scratchbuilding precisely ?

No.

Is the modeller who weathers a plastic building realistically any less of a modeller than someone who builds from scratch, apart from the satisfaction involved ?

No.

I would suggest that the end result and the satisfaction for the indiividual modeller are the important criteria. The route by which you get to your destination doesn't really matter.

Yes, absolutely, which is why I thought it was churlish of cf7 to dismiss Driline's structure as not being scratchbuilt. Whether or not he used commercial wall/siding material and window castings, he created a structure that is unique to his layout. What else would you call it but scratchbuilt?

All the best,

Mark.

[marknewton]

Yes, making your own wheels is great.

But many years ago I decided to buy not a lathe! My points were how much time would it take to learn making good wheels, flywheels and more. How much material would I spoil? You live only once.    

Yes Wolfgang, one chance is all you get. But I didn't really make a conscious decision to get a lathe and start making fiddly bits. It just happened that the things I wanted to model weren't available any way other than by building them myself, and since I was a kid I've had access to machine tools, so I just learnt to make things. For me a lot of the enjoyment is in making things, perhaps more than running them. I get enough of that at work...

As for how much material would you spoil, I'd say a lot. I have, over the years. But that's how you learn any trade or craft, by improving on the last job, and hopefully learning from your mistakes. At least make new mistakes, don't repeat the old ones!

All the best,

Mark.

[marknewton]

 What's the point in "arguing" a "case' when you never, ever admit you're wrong on this board?

I thought we had established that "this is one of those topics that can mean a lot of different things to different people. No one is right or wrong here."?

You describe yourself as opinionated, so you of all people ought to understand what motivates me. And has it ever occurred to you that I might be right a lot of the time? If model railroaders range from absolute newbies to very knowledgeable and experienced, why should it surprise you that someone on this "board" knows more than you do?

All the best,

Mark.

[wm3798]

Folks:

I like a good laugh too, but I also think we shouldn't let the fun jokes about pulping wood and mining ore obscure or invert an essential fact about scratchbuilding. It's not how LITTLE you start with that matters more, it's how MUCH you put into it. When I scratchbuild something, I get a sense of ownership that goes beyond what I feel when using something RTR or even kitbuilt (depending on how much work the kit was).

I even have a hard time modifying somebody else's scratchbuilt model, when I happen to find one at a train show. I look at it, pick it up, and say, "Wow, somebody like me made this thing exist", and it Means Something. It's like finding a handmade axe in an old building, as opposed to buying an Estwing at the store.

 

The fact is, Autobus, is we are both on the same side of the discussion here...  I think it's pretty presumptuous of someone to look down their nose at a project because they don't think it's scratch built "enough"...

I agree that there are some kits that require a considerable level of skill and patience... if you've built the Central Valley truss bridge, you know what I'm talking about...  Now, I wouldn't equate that with a scratch built bridge like Ken's ore bridge, but when I see the two that I constructed for my club, I take a certain amount of pride in knowing that I put them together, plus genuinely scratchbuilding the piers and abutments for them to complete the scene...

Scratchbuildling doesn't mean you have to be doing brain surgery and fabricating every little thing, or at least it shouldn't.  It's another way for a hobbyist to expand his/her horizons, acquire some new skills, and get a result that is truly unique.  I believe that should be the goal of any hobby.

Lee