Mark,You miss my funny.."I was the "power" when ever I had to set a brakewheel! LOL! "..
I knew what Doc Wayne was saying since I was a brakeman but, being me I had to be a wise guy..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE wrote:I don't know about "powered" brakewheels but,know I was the "power" when ever I had to set a brakewheel! LOL!
doctorwayne wrote: Actually, Mark, it was another Mark who first provided the correct answer. marknewton wrote: MisterBeasley wrote:Was it an improvement in technology, so that turning the wheel didn't require quite as much brute forceIn a nutshell, yes. The improvement was the development of geared handbrake mechanisms, IIRC during the mid to late 1920s. (Having said that, the Mather car in your photo had geared handbrakes...)Mark.
Actually, Mark, it was another Mark who first provided the correct answer.
marknewton wrote: MisterBeasley wrote:Was it an improvement in technology, so that turning the wheel didn't require quite as much brute forceIn a nutshell, yes. The improvement was the development of geared handbrake mechanisms, IIRC during the mid to late 1920s. (Having said that, the Mather car in your photo had geared handbrakes...)Mark.
MisterBeasley wrote:Was it an improvement in technology, so that turning the wheel didn't require quite as much brute force
The other Mark's answer was too brief for me, and I believe there was a lot more to this than just handbrake location where car brakes are concerned.
Mark, in Martinez
Don't think we've got a good answer yet. Perhaps it would be best if asked at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/
Mark
DSO17 wrote: The rule banning crew members from cartops predated the widespread use of radios by several years on at least one large Eastern RR. Yard crews often went up top to pass signals anyhow, as it was the only way to see. The bosses just kind of looked the other way...
The rule banning crew members from cartops predated the widespread use of radios by several years on at least one large Eastern RR. Yard crews often went up top to pass signals anyhow, as it was the only way to see. The bosses just kind of looked the other way...
Back in those days the bosses was usually old railroaders that worked their way up the ladder and knew their jobs.Today you have college graduates running the show that has very little "real" railroad work experience.
Steve_F wrote: http://www.hosam.com/grd/dates.html A good time line at http://www.hosam.com/grd/dates.html, nothing about changing the brake wheels from horizontal to vertical but lot of other good info.
http://www.hosam.com/grd/dates.html
A good time line at http://www.hosam.com/grd/dates.html, nothing about changing the brake wheels from horizontal to vertical but lot of other good info.
Unfortunately some of the information included at http://www.hosam.com/grd/dates.html is either incorrect of incomplete.
there is a railroad timeline in Railfan.net
http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=SteamGeneral;action=display;num=1104357470;start=
hope i got it right
1966: no running boards on new equipment
1966: brake wheels were required to be mounted low on all new equipment.
1979: running boards must be removed from exhisting equipment.
check out model railroader books: "the guide to model railroad freight cars" by Jeff Wilson
there is a good time line for freight cars in there that should help.
http://kalmbachcatalog.stores.yahoo.net/12450.html
I believe the X-29 steel boxcar came out in the mid to late 20's and had vertical staffs, but I think the 1932 ARA steel boxcar had a horizontal one (i.e. wheel mounted on the end of the car, not sticking up in the air). Certainly by the time the "classic" 40' long / 10' high steel boxcar came along in the mid-late thirties the vertical staff was no longer being used on new equipment...unless some RR ordered some 'one off' ones with vertical staffs for some reason.
I have a video from maybe 20 years ago that's a reissue of a Great Northern training film from 1946, showing how to use the different types of brakewheels and how they work, how to safely couple and uncouple cars, put water in the tender from a tank etc. It shows how to use both vertical and horizontal brakewheels so both were common and in use then. I think it does say something in the narration like "most new cars now come with 'power' brakewheels".
BTW early brakewheels were high up like on the one in the pic in the first post, later ones were down almost at the roofline and could be turned by a man on the end ladder of the car without him having to be standing on the roof of the car. It does mention that on the non-powered vertical-staff brakewheels you wanted to be sure to use your club to leverage the wheel in such a way that if it slipped or broke, you'd fall towards the car rather than away from it !!
The vertically mounted brake wheels on the car ends were easier and safer to use than the horizontal wheels. The trainman could pull a lot harder braced on the ladder than standing up on the roof or on a platform.
I got a "stem winder" tank car once while braking on the IC.
Rode the thing almost all the way out of the yard before I got it stopped. Was certainly NOT "power brakes".
Brake wheels on the ends of cars certainly made them much easier to "catch" and stop while switching the "hump".
majortom
doctorwayne wrote: As Mark noted, the brakewheel move came about with the introduction of the "powered" handbrake - the "power" being supplied by gearing. There were, I believe, several versions of the "powered" brake that retained the vertical shaft, as shown in the photo, too. I don't know if there was any edict banning the vertical version, though. In 1966, the ICC permitted the railroads to eliminate roof walks where they were not required for loading, etc., as with a covered hopper, but I don't know when this became mandatory. Wayne
As Mark noted, the brakewheel move came about with the introduction of the "powered" handbrake - the "power" being supplied by gearing. There were, I believe, several versions of the "powered" brake that retained the vertical shaft, as shown in the photo, too. I don't know if there was any edict banning the vertical version, though. In 1966, the ICC permitted the railroads to eliminate roof walks where they were not required for loading, etc., as with a covered hopper, but I don't know when this became mandatory.
Wayne
I don't know about "powered" brakewheels but,know I was the "power" when ever I had to set a brakewheel! LOL!
As far as roof walks.They was very useful in the days before radios when protecting long shoves around blind curves..You see a brakeman would ride the roof especially when the engineer couldn't see the switchmen from the cab..This brakeman would relay the hand signals from the men on the ground to the engineer.I recall doing this several times when I first started braking on the PRR.Then they started to issue radios to the crew which eliminated the need to ride the tops of cars and then the roof walk was removed and later the brakewheels was lowered to ground level making it much safer for the conductors and brakeman.
Railroading never was for those with weak knees and faith hearts especially in the past years.
A good time line at this link, nothing about changing the brake wheels from horizontal to vertical but lot of other good info.
As Mark noted, the brakewheel move came about with the introduction of the "powered" handbrake - the "power" being supplied by gearing. There were, I believe, several versions of the "powered" brake that retained the vertical shaft, as shown in the photo, too. I don't know if there was any edict banning the vertical version, though. In 1966, the ICC permitted the railroads to eliminate roofwalks where they were not required for loading, etc., as with a covered hopper, but I don't know when this became mandatory.
There are two different eras involving brake wheels. First, vertical staff brake wheels were outlawed. I was reading something just recently about that and from what I remember, this transition came about roughly around WWII, but over an extended period of time. Given the economic problems, the war, and the more lax regulatory climate, this was a long-lived phase-out.
The ban on high mounted brake wheels came about due to the ban on roofwalks, except for what is needed for loading purposes such as on tank cars and covered hoppers. New construction phased out roofwalks and high mount brake wheelsin the mid to late Sixties, followed by a phase out for such items in interchange in the mid Seventies.
A little Googling around or someone reading this who knows could give us exact dates. Personnally, in my modeling I'm a big fan of roofwalks, etc, but then I never had to clamber around, risking my life to use such things.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Mister B.,
Can't give you an answer, buuut ----- my 1922 Car Builders Enclycopedia shows verticle brake shaft with horizontal brake wheel on all drawings. There are some manufactures of lever/rachet type brake mechanisims to replace brake wheels. There is no discussion of moving the brake wheel location from the roof to the end as of 1922.
Usually a safety change was discussed for several years before becoming recomended practice and then several more years before becoming a mandated requirement for interchange service.
Possibly the answer to your question would be the late 1930s or early 40s.
Hope this will give you some clue to the answer.
John T. in the cow pasture with four legged brakes
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
cacole wrote:The handbrake wheel was moved down onto the end of the cars when roof walks were banned, but someone with better powers of recall than I will have to provide the date.
For quite a while, the wheels were on the ends of the cars, but still up at the top. This change came about a long time before the roofwalks were banned.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I've got a number of older box cars with their handbrake shafts mounted vertically, so that the wheel spins horizontally and would be operated by a brakeman standing on the roof. Newer cars have the wheel mounted on the car end, spinning vertically.
I can see where bringing the wheels down off the roof would probably improve worker safety, since they wouldn't be on the roof, although ergonomically it's probably easier to turn the wheel while standing on the roof, rather than hanging on a ladder on the end of the car.
When did this change happen? Was it an improvement in technology, so that turning the wheel didn't require quite as much brute force? Was there some sort of government regulation designed to protect brakemen? And, was this a gradual phase-out of older equipment, or was there a brief changeover period?