Manufacture's dating years ran on locos - forum opinions

[Anonymous]

I'm kind of new to this but wouldn't it be nice and helpful if manufactures of locos or perhaps rolling stock had a years ran 19?? to 19?? etc to help with prototypical layouts. I understand many know what ran when, But many I would think model a time period over a prototype.

Just looking for thought and opinions

[Fergmiester]

I actually e-mailed one of the manufacturers this question and never recieved a reply.
You're right it would be nice to get a biography with our purchases.

[sparkingbolt]

If you post a topic on a specific item of interest, I'm sure that you could get some help on this forum, but I have to agree with you, Matt. If manufacturers would put that info on the package it would help a considderable number of people. Seeing an item in a hobby shop, maybe wanting it....run home and post a topic? Maybe miss a deal? Yep, pretty big hassle. Still, better than nothing i suppose.

Lifelike does a great job in this area, putting this history, even in detail, on their freightcars and locomotives, at least in the Proto 2000 series. I think a scant few other manufacturers have too, but not enough.

As your knowlege grows in the hobby you'll learn what items fit what eras, but in the meantime a lot of uninformed decisions, some expensive, can be made. (Boy, do I know!) One thing that helps is looking at the data on the car's side to see when it was built. Even that won't necessarily indicate when production of a given design began.

I have a chart that tells when just about every deisel locomotive was introduced. The Info on steamers is more general since there were thousands of different specific designs. Even there, the chart helps. E-mail me if you have a specific question.

The chart also discusses some specifics on freight cars. You can see some of this info if you look at the topic posted on this subject by forum member " Rock Island Line" March 7th, in a topic called 'Modelling 1960's freight." ( I don't know how to post a direct link to there, although I have seen it done by others.) Dan

[IRONROOSTER]

John Armstrong's book 'Creative Layout Design' has a two page table on the eight ages of railroading that gives an overview for each age for locos, freight, passenger, etc.

Since many manfacturers are lettering locos and cars for multiple roads, they probably don't want to give dates because they fear it will hurt sales. Paticularly end dates - some of those early diesels ran a long time (may still be running somewhere), same for steam engines.
For example the first 4-4-0 was introduced in the mid 1800's. The Ma & Pa scrapped thier last one in 1952 (it was built in 1901). Granted the early ones with ballon stacks look different from the later ones, but still what is the time period for 4-4-0's?

But I agree it would be nice if the manufacturer provided information on the prototype on which the model is based even if it is lettered for other roads, some manufacturers do this.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Years ago when I first got concerned that my railroad "fleet" was becoming a hogpog of mixed (up) eras I started at least looking at the "built date', or 'rebuilt date' in the dimensional data on the sides of freight cars-it was a start but totally unreliable because one was relying on the manuf. of markings to be correct?, the kit manuf. mating correct markings/data with accurate car body, etc. And then their was the old AHM/Rivarossi nomenclature for their 1920's heavyweight and 1930's lightweight/streamline pass cars that gave us even more potential misinformation. But it was a start towards selecting a more protypically correct fleet. One of the first bits of advice I give to beginning modelers is to decide on an era to model, and then decide, as soon as practical, on a specific road (if prototype) or locale if free-lancing. You know-"do as I say, not as I did!" It's a lot easier now since the amount of available information has skyrocketed -esp with forums like this- but so have the sheer numbers of products that beg for our purchase. I applaude Life-Like Proto series for their informative ads/packaging, as well as their approach to providing specific details-both pieces and info so one can come at least close to a specific roads' equipment. Some, but not enough, magazine 'product reviews' present some era/correct road application info. Responsible manufacturers should strive to mimic those like Life-Like Proto to provide era info. Not every modeler has the time to research every item prior to purchase and 'newbes' certainly don't know where to even start-once they become aware of the mismash of equipment they've assembled they will either start researching like most serious modelers, drive 'senior' hobbyists crazy with questions if they're lazy, or bail out of the hobby. Perhaps some industry recognition by a key publisher like Kalmbach or Carsten, or even the NMRA, could be initiated (like a "better Homes & Garden -Seal of Approval") that indicates that the manufacturer has provided an accurate product for a specific era and railroad. I'm not advocating rivet counting-that's not for everyone, especially 'newbes'; the hobby has enough in its ranks already. One wouldn't include an F16 in Soviet markings in a Korean War model plane collection anymore than have an ATSF 'war bonnet' F3 pulling Gunderson cars on a New England layout.

[Anonymous]

This would be a good idea. In mainland Europe they have the "Epoch" system to denote what era a loco or car is suited to - Epoch 1 being the earliest and Epoch 5 being the latest (1985 onwards). Maybe US manufacturers could consider adopting this, or at least something similar?

[Anonymous]

Hi guys: Knowing manufacturing dates would probably be helpful to novice collectors
and swap meet dealers/indivduals. I have a number of Varney F-3 & SW-7 diesel
units with both gear & spring belt drives. I don't recall when the spring belt drive was
made. Fishwagon

[mikebonellisr]

It would be a big help to many of us if all manufactures put that information on all thier products related to model railroading.I have a problem with which HO trucks are correct for the 1950's

[Anonymous]

I think it would be reasonable to include the date of production, as this is fairly easy to research and get accurate, but the years of operation vary wildly from one railroad to the next. A lot of first-generation deisels, units produced in the 50's, are still running today on short lines, under their second or third or even fourth owner. Just like you still see an occasional '57 Chevy or other classic cars out on the road. Dates of production would be based on the prototype's manufacturer's records. Another thing that *could* be included is the total number of units produced, to offer some sense of which models represent common equipment versus which ones were relatively unique, though for rolling stock this might be asking too much.

[DSchmitt]

Morning Sun Books, Inc publishes many color picture books on railroads all around America. Their photo captions often give information on when the cars were built, were in service, and when and where the photos were taken. Their "equipment guides" are particuarly helpfull. There are other publishers with similar books. Of course the color books are limited to equipment in use after color photography became common.

Many RR history books have numerous pictures of equipment and sometimes plans.

The prototype railroads often printed "equipment diagram" books . They can give useful information on when the equipment was in use. Sometimes they can be found at swap meets. Some have also been reprinted by Railfans or Railroad Historical Societies.

If you could purchase or borrow af few books on railroads that interest you you would get a feel for the correct era of equipment. Another good source of information is magazines both prototype and model.

Some libraries have good selections of RR books. Some also have magazenes. I once had some time to kill in one small city about 100 miles from my home. Their library had about 40 years of Model Railroader.

[Anonymous]

I imagine most of the better model manufacturers today consult with railroad historic societies prior to manufacturing a locomotive model of a prototype- road numbers, logos, paint color codes, placement and types of horns and all the bells and whistles, and when it was placed in service. Those historic socities have the resources and the knowledgeable member bodies to determine what was run where, when and for how long, and if it was sold, wrecked, restored, or for that matter, still in use. . .Historic socities, especially those that focus on model railroading (and probably they all do), have a vested interest in the scale fidelity of the subject matter and I'm sure they could (and may already) provide the aforementioned data to the manufacturers. I admit that it is much more of an undertaking to apply this to a freight roster but some manufacturers are making very specific models of certain prototypes, and then you have companies making generic box cars-all one can hope for is an accurate paint scheme and reporting data. The situation is even worse for cabooses & passenger cars, with but a few exceptions. Remember when we didn't concern ourselves with all this stuff and just ran trains-you either had diesels or steam, and you probably had SP or ATSF if you lived out West, PRR or NYC in the Northeast, or Southern if you lived in the South.!

[Roadtrp]

I would like to see this information given for freight cars also. I've had pretty good luck doing internet searches to find the dates various locomotives were used. There are a lot of rosters out there giving dates manufactured, rebuilt and retired for locomotives. I was unable to find much of anything about freight cars though until the great and knowledgeable people who post on this board helped me out. [:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

I would like to see this information given for freight cars also.

I Recommend you get "The American Railroad Freight Car: From the Wood-Car Era to the Coming of Steel by John H. White ", it's an indepth look at frieght cars and will answer pretty much any question you have about frieght cars. A must have for any modeler.


Jay

[ClinchValleySD40]

I wish every manufacture would do this (years cars/engines were made) for both cars and engines.

[Jetrock]

There are plenty of cliches about wishes, though...if you just GET A COUPLE OF BOOKS on when various cars and engines were made, you won't HAVE to have it printed on the box--that actually solves the problem.

If you don't care enough to do a little reading on the subject, why are you concerned enough that you'd have inappropriate-dated equipment on your layout?

It's also *very* hard to judge when equipment stopped running. While an Official Guide might say that chop-nosed Burlington Northern green Geeps would not be appropriate to run on a modern-era layout, this weekend i saw a train being pulled by three of them (with a more modern BNSF engine in the lead!)

Believe me, part of the fun is doing the research. By leaving that responsibility up to the manufacturers, not only do you miss out on actually learning things that might be useful (such as a more complete overview of what ran in your region/era of preference), you are also surrendering accurate control of the information to the manufacturer.

Read a book already--If that is too much work, just do a web-search! it will tell you far more good information than would fit on the side of a box. Do it yourself, rather than expecting to be spoon-fed.

[Roadtrp]

Yes, that's right. To be a good model railroader you MUST do EVERYTHING the absolute HARDEST way. This hobby ain't for no danged wussies. If you want a wussie hobby go collect stamps or something. This hobby is for REAL MEN! Guys like me who grow all of their own food and create their own clothing using cotton grown in the backyard.

Yea... right... [:-^]

P.S. To an extent, I agree with you... you just overstated your case IMHO. I DID research on the internet, and found very good information on locomotives. I searched for information on freight cars, and didn't find a whole heckuva lot. I could find years manufactured, but absolutely no information on when they were commonly in use. I asked my questions here and got very good responses. I suppose that is taking the easy way out, but that's OK. I knew I was a bad modeler anyway...

[MAbruce]

Try this site, that tells you when they were made:

http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/RRdieselchrono.html

A little more on Diesel Locomotive Technology:

http://www.trainweb.org/railwaytechnical/diesel.html

Here is even a number of operating manuals for various Diesels:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/manual/manual.html

I'm still trying to locate a link to a chart that shows which years a particular loco ran. I'll post it if I find it. Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

I usually buy a model after I've done some research on it in order to find the one that comes the closest to matching the prototype.
However it's always interesting to see any prototype information that comes with the model.

[Anonymous]

Although I've been a model railroader for close to 5 decades, I would still find it beneficial to have some basic prototype data available when I plan a roster and want to determine what is available from whom. I'm switching roads and era right now and am going thru much of what a 'new to model railroading' enthusiast would, except that I have the benefit of hindsight knowing that it is important to do research prior to purchasing, and the memories of having bought what I thought was appropriate(but wasn't),was cool looking at the time, or just didn't know any better. Believe me, I have a huge model and prototype railroad library, MR going back to the late '40s, many years of most of the other model railroading mags, spend too much time on the internet, have ridden in the cab of an Edaville 2 footer as well as ATSF's restored 4-8-4. I've crawled over and photographed just about everything in Durango, Spencer, Sacramento, Golden, and elsewhere. I've traveled on every subway line in NYC as well as the Central, Espee, and New Haven over the years. I'm not much different than any other modeler who really likes trains, and I have a family, a demanding start-up business, build furniture, play with cars, and am remodel ing.a house. HOW MUCH TIME SHOULD ONE HAVE TO SPEND RESEARCHING EVERY SINGLE PURCHASE unless you just model a coal hauler? Do you advise a newbe to the hobby to "go look it up" when they humbly ask for advice? What does a newbe do if he doesn't know where to start? "Jetrock", maybe you like doing things the hard way, but many will not because of competing responsibilities, or limited time, money or (initial) interest. Research is fundamental and to some, fun to do,in order to accurately depict a time and place for a prototype or even freelanced layout; I agree with you completely on that score. Manufacturers could provide the type of basic data already identified in this 'topic' and I don't know why any model railroader wouldn't be very appreciative when it happens; it would lend more credibility to those manufacturers' product lines and could be measured in their sales figures as well.

[Anonymous]

I'm really glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that supplying information about the dates a particular locomotive or piece of rolling stock was in use would be helpful.

Manufacturer's (and distributors such as Walthers) have to do an enormous amount of research to design the models they produce. Since they've done all the research already, it wouldn't really be much of an effort for them to include the information on the label of their product, or in the catalogs they provide.

I for one would think very highly of any firm that offered that sort of help, and would tend to patronize them over a firm that took a "Hey, the dates are YOUR problem" sort of approach.

[nfmisso]

Some manufacturers do provide this information, specifically Kadee, Red Caboose, Branchline, and others. The most complete information I have seen is Westerfields.
http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/40ps1.htm
http://www.red-caboose.com/cgi-bin/e_catalog/catalog.cgi?product_display=RR-37012&shop=redcaboose&language=eng&curr=0&session=4057a97f78020501&cart_id=74384641x30722
http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/40boxcars/40%27aar6/40aar6.htm
http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/

[Anonymous]

attn nfmisso, thanks for this info: I'm getting back into model rr seriously after being distracted by a bunch of other stuff for the past 10 years and with changing eras and railroads, this is very helpful.