Depending upon the era of your layout.
I think the Roundhouse Overland cars are quite acceptable. These coaches are still somewhat hard to find but they are being re-released by Roundhouse/Athearn and will soon be available again. These coaches do not have interiors like the Rivarossi 60' coaches.
Although they are marketed as 50' coaches the measurement does not take into account the open vestibules and in reality these coaches are almost the same size as the old Rivarossi 60' and the new Hornby-Rivarossi 60' coaches.
Although these cars are to me indistinguishable from each other they first 60' released by Rivarossi are quite hard to find and the new released coaches sold out very quickly and are rare to find.
dadret wrote:I want to add a passenger car train to my 1950s layout but I know the models of the 85' stramlined cars require a 24" mimium radius turn and mine are all right at 22" (I have some old IHC Heavyweights and they are really too long). Con-Cor makes a 72' version that I like but I know they would require a lot of work and money (add interiors, lights, probably change couplers) to make them like, and probably the same cost as, the Walthers cars I like best. All of the Walthers cars carry the "24" mim radius required" qualification but I am lead to believe that some of the Walthers cars are shorter than the 85 scale feet and will work on my layout. My problem is I don't know how to tell and there is no LHS around that has any that I can look at. Can someone help me or direct me to a source where I can find out the actual length (either is scale feet or real inches) of the Walthers Pullman Standard, Pullman Heavyweight, etc? I'm fairly sure that a 64 seat coach is longer than a 46 seat coach but my knowledge of old time passenger cars is VERY limited.
Athearn produces or had produced shorter length cars just for this reason. Look at Athearn or ebay for the cars.
You might try a walthers car but expect to do some modding to get it onto sharper curves. This means checking the coupler arrangement for a wider swing.
Also check out Bachmann.
Cool!
They look good, from what I've seen. Let us know how you like them.
I also agree with your statement about the cost of upgrading the cheaper cars. I have a couple sets of Rivarossi/AHM I'm slowly working on. They will end up as expensive as the nicer RTR cars, and probably still not as nice of quality.
Rotor
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...
I think I'm going to take Mark at his word (Walthers non-heavywieghts will handle 22" curves) and get ATSF Budd cars (they're due in 8/12) or maybe even the Super Chief - they're Budd and Pullman Standard.
I did some arithmetic and if I get the Con-Cor 72' and upgrade by adding lights, interiors, couplers, weights, etc I would spend more than it would cost to buy the equivalient Walthers cars and the end result would probably not be as good.
Besides, I actually rode the Super Chief when I was a kid!!! Thanks to everyone for all the good advise. I learn something everytime I ask a question on here.
on the subject of people and nothing else, I actualy like the Roundhouse Palace sillouhettes, as the screen pattern looks more realistic than the paper printed. I dp have sme LL shorties, they do look good "in a pinch" or as a terminal filler wwhen all you see is a car shape. They also get run with their "Grandpas", a trio of TYCO shorties of similar, if not heavier, make.
-Morgan
galaxy wrote:I do have them. I got them simply because they are shorties and will run on my 18" curves, a bit better than the 72 footers. I also got them because at least they are not the "old timer" passenger cars, though I have those too.I would like some non-dome cars too, but seems they are only available with domes at the moment. (Hmmm. maybe I chop off the dome and add a new plain roof of styrene?).I plan to cut the "people" out and replace with "windows" and maybe if I can find some that can be bashed in, some seats, maybe with torsos of 3D peeps in them maybe!The dome cars may not be B & O proto, but I can at least run 'em behind my diesels.I don't care what anybody says, I can at least run 'em. Just posted then in case the OP was interested.
I also got them because at least they are not the "old timer" passenger cars, though I have those too.
I would like some non-dome cars too, but seems they are only available with domes at the moment. (Hmmm. maybe I chop off the dome and add a new plain roof of styrene?).
I plan to cut the "people" out and replace with "windows" and maybe if I can find some that can be bashed in, some seats, maybe with torsos of 3D peeps in them maybe!
The dome cars may not be B & O proto, but I can at least run 'em behind my diesels.
I don't care what anybody says, I can at least run 'em. Just posted then in case the OP was interested.
Yep, that's why I like them too.
I've got Rivarossi/AHM and Spectrums too, but those are for later when the layout grows up.
Rotorranch wrote: don7 wrote: Rotorranch wrote: I kind of like 'em myself! They run pretty good, and take KaDee #5's with Talgo adapters. Sure, they aren't "prototypically correct" but neither are 18" curve radii. Replacing the "people" with .007 lexan for the windows helps.I'm actually looking for some of the non-dome cars for a project here, if anyone has some they don't need!RotorHow much are you willing to pay?As little as possible! Actually, if I told you, it would be a violation of forum rules. And I wouldn't want that!Rotor
don7 wrote: Rotorranch wrote: I kind of like 'em myself! They run pretty good, and take KaDee #5's with Talgo adapters. Sure, they aren't "prototypically correct" but neither are 18" curve radii. Replacing the "people" with .007 lexan for the windows helps.I'm actually looking for some of the non-dome cars for a project here, if anyone has some they don't need!RotorHow much are you willing to pay?
Rotorranch wrote: I kind of like 'em myself! They run pretty good, and take KaDee #5's with Talgo adapters. Sure, they aren't "prototypically correct" but neither are 18" curve radii. Replacing the "people" with .007 lexan for the windows helps.I'm actually looking for some of the non-dome cars for a project here, if anyone has some they don't need!Rotor
I kind of like 'em myself!
They run pretty good, and take KaDee #5's with Talgo adapters. Sure, they aren't "prototypically correct" but neither are 18" curve radii. Replacing the "people" with .007 lexan for the windows helps.
I'm actually looking for some of the non-dome cars for a project here, if anyone has some they don't need!
How much are you willing to pay?
As little as possible! Actually, if I told you, it would be a violation of forum rules. And I wouldn't want that!
I don't know about a violation (so I won't mention exact price maybe?), but I got them at my local hobby shop, new, off the shelf, on sale (probably because they are Life Like) for less than some online retailers who carry them at them moment.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Rotorranch wrote: don7 wrote: galaxy wrote: Then there are these Life Likes available now:http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450676and/or:http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450692they seem to be about 63.5 scale feet long. They come with horn hook couplers. I hope you are not seriously recommending that anyone obtain those cars? Have you ever seen these cars in person? I kind of like 'em myself! They run pretty good, and take KaDee #5's with Talgo adapters. Sure, they aren't "prototypically correct" but neither are 18" curve radii. Replacing the "people" with .007 lexan for the windows helps.I'm actually looking for some of the non-dome cars for a project here, if anyone has some they don't need!Rotor
don7 wrote: galaxy wrote: Then there are these Life Likes available now:http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450676and/or:http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450692they seem to be about 63.5 scale feet long. They come with horn hook couplers. I hope you are not seriously recommending that anyone obtain those cars? Have you ever seen these cars in person?
galaxy wrote: Then there are these Life Likes available now:http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450676and/or:http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450692they seem to be about 63.5 scale feet long. They come with horn hook couplers.
Then there are these Life Likes available now:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450676
and/or:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450692
they seem to be about 63.5 scale feet long. They come with horn hook couplers.
I hope you are not seriously recommending that anyone obtain those cars? Have you ever seen these cars in person?
I do have them. I got them simply because they are shorties and will run on my 18" curves, a bit better than the 72 footers.
markpierce wrote:There are so many trade-offs in this hobby. That's why it is best to know what kind of equipment one plans to run and the level of unrealism one is willing to accept BEFORE one designs his layout. If I could do it over, I'd have visited every club and home layout possible before doing my own. Personally, HO-scale-60-footers don't even begin to look right until the radius inches toward 30, and "full-length-foot-long" passenger cars should have 36" or more. It is an individual-decision-kind-of-thing, assuming the equipment will operate reliably under the chosen circumstances.Mark
There are so many trade-offs in this hobby. That's why it is best to know what kind of equipment one plans to run and the level of unrealism one is willing to accept BEFORE one designs his layout. If I could do it over, I'd have visited every club and home layout possible before doing my own. Personally, HO-scale-60-footers don't even begin to look right until the radius inches toward 30, and "full-length-foot-long" passenger cars should have 36" or more. It is an individual-decision-kind-of-thing, assuming the equipment will operate reliably under the chosen circumstances.
Mark
Flashwave wrote: wjstix wrote:The Athearn cars aren't discontinued, I think they just don't keep them in stock the way they used to. Seems like they'll go a long time between runs of some of their models. But at the typical flea market I see a lot of Athearn cars around. You might end up having to get undecs and paint them yourself, Testor's makes a chrome spray-can paint that looks good for stainless steel cars like Budd cars.No, the Athearn Santa Fe's are. I looked on there site. second the can. On this it would be far easier than an airbrush. There may also be a good match for PUllman green if that's the way you want to go. Microscale makes good decals.
wjstix wrote:The Athearn cars aren't discontinued, I think they just don't keep them in stock the way they used to. Seems like they'll go a long time between runs of some of their models. But at the typical flea market I see a lot of Athearn cars around. You might end up having to get undecs and paint them yourself, Testor's makes a chrome spray-can paint that looks good for stainless steel cars like Budd cars.
No, the Athearn Santa Fe's are. I looked on there site. second the can. On this it would be far easier than an airbrush. There may also be a good match for PUllman green if that's the way you want to go. Microscale makes good decals.
Appears the streamlined and heavyweight ATSF cars are "discontinued" which really means they aren't making them right now. It doesn't mean they won't make another run of one or both in the next year or two. Plus Athearn has made a ton of both types lettered ATSF over the years (their heavyweights are modelled on Santa Fe cars) so you probably can find them if you hunt around.
Floquil makes "Pullman Green" in a spray can. I prefer Badger Pullman Green which is a bit darker but the Floquil will work fine if you use it for all the HW cars so they match. Spray them with glosscote, apply decals, then spray with dullcote (both also available in cans).
Since the cars are black plastic, you'll probably want to spray them with gray primer. I like to do both the inside and outside with lt gray primer, then stuff the insides with one or two paper towels before spraying the outside Pullman green. That way the interior walls are a lighter color than the outside, makes it look better. (You could do the same thing with light green or another light color if you didn't want the insides to be gray.)
dadret wrote:I can't find the Athearn cars, except for the undecorated model, anywhere. I'm looking for Santa Fe - I tried e-Bay and Amazon as well as Google. Apparently there were discontinured some time ago. Where do you buy the Hornby/Rivarrosi cars? They're not in the Walthers catalog?
Walthers on line catalog indicate that the new Rivarossi 60' coaches are all sold out. The Hornby/Rivarossi site indicate that the 60' coaches have been released in an unlettered version as well. You will have to search the on-line hobby/trainshops for the 60' sets. Be patient I have acquired a few sets by watching e-bay.
Try here:
Discount Trains Online, Athearn Passenger Cars
They appear to at least have SOME of the Santa Fe cars available. The RPO, Baggage, and Diner are available there painted and lettered, and the Vista Dome and Observation are available undecorated.
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
Athearn makes about the best short passenger cars on the market. Lightweight or heavyweight, you just add weight, Kadee couplers, brass wheelsets, (36"), and American Limited diaphrams and they look good and pull great, even on 18" curves. And they're cheap.
Dick
Texas Chief
jguess733 wrote:how badly does the longer coupler throw the car spacing off by? will the diaphragms still touch?
I did not ask that question about their new 60' coaches.
I have some sets of the pre-Hornby 60' series and they have only the couplers provided and the coaches will run fine on 18" curves with the couplers supplied and yes the diaphragms touch. Kadee recommends using the #5 as replacements for these coaches.
Jason
Modeling the Fort Worth & Denver of the early 1970's in N scale
The new Hornby/Rivarossi 60' coaches will run on 18" radius curves.
Their tech staff advises me that the coaches are supplied with two sets of couplers a short shank and a long shank. The longer coupler being recommended for the 18" curves.
Don Gibson wrote: I tested my 85' cars on various radii to see what it took to eliminate the 'octaganal look' on my 36"curve. (those looking at photographs will know what I mean). I came up with 48"r, or 4X. Today's newbie criteria seems to be 'what stays upright on the track'.Ah progress!
I tested my 85' cars on various radii to see what it took to eliminate the 'octaganal look' on my 36"curve. (those looking at photographs will know what I mean). I came up with 48"r, or 4X. Today's newbie criteria seems to be 'what stays upright on the track'.
Ah progress!
Don, we are of similar mind. Still, we all got to do what we are able.
Mark:
Before your time (and mine) modelers built 36" radii curves. The hobby primarily existed in Mid-West basements. Forced air and relocation reduced the size needed for basements. Lumber yards now stock 4X8' sheets instead of 5X9'.
O GAUGE gave way to HO. What's next? 'N'gauge? (better for passenger ops).
What curveture is best, has given way to 'whatever'.
I tested my 85' cars on various radii to see what it took to eliminate the 'octaganal' look on my curves. (those looking at photographs will know what I mean). I came up with 48"r, or 4X. Today's newbie criteria seems to be 'whatever stays upright on the track'.
Being the pragmatist that I am, since lumber is sold on 'so much a foot', a 48''r track runs off a 4' wide table - so a 46" radius replaces a 22"., and a dual track mainline curve is 46" & 44". and without sideswiping! Those 90o curves take up only 4' of each corner's wall.
A 4'X 4' sheet makes 2 semi-triangular corners. It's amazing what corners can do. To those with "no usable corners", I say there is always N gauge, and to avoid the rush.
dadret wrote:I finally found some old Athearn 72' cars at a LHS in Quebec - the web site was in French and English but the ordering page was in French only so I'm a little hesitant to order them since I wouldn't be real sure what I was paying for.
Uh, you should be able to find Athearns's a lot closer than that. Unless yuo're lookin fgor a certain road I missed. Did you try Horizon Hobbies
Here is a suggested "rule of thumb" for minimum radii:
http://macrodyn.com/ldsig/wiki/index.php?title=Curve_radius_rule-of-thumb
Depart to your own desire (and risk.)
Walther's non-heavyweight passenger cars (pullman standard, budd) work just fine on 22" radius. In trains. With locomotives. Yes, they're fine. The heavyweights don't work on 22"s, but the others do.
Mark.