One more trackplan question.

[Anonymous]

I have been thinking about the results i got from my " Staging " and "Continuse run " polls and have decided that I must have staging but have still not made up my mind about the continuse run. I have two plans one is a folded dogbone plan drawn for me by Snake ( a frequent poster on this board ) and the other is an adaption of Ian Rice's Rouque Bluffs with a western Oklahoma theme. here are the pros. and cons. of both.

Dogbone-
Pros.
continuse run
more room for sencery
longer trains

Cons.

18 radi curves
staging must be on lower level with helix
leaves little room left in my bedroom
difficult accesse in some places

Shelf layout

pros.

greater realism
takes up less space
can easily be interchanged with other shelf layouts
easy accsesse
easy staging

cons.

no continuse run
less room for sencery

there are some other small problems with the dogbone layout such as backdrop heigth and window access but no real problems I can see with the shelf layout. no continuse run may not be a problem as i have never paid much attention to trains just running around. I geuss this all boils down to this : Which would be better ? Thanks !

[Fergmiester]

The answer as always lies with you and your needs. Are you a dreamer or a doer?

To me as a dreamer I prefer watching the train going around and around providing it's not on a 4 x 8 oval.
I suspect doers (lots of operations) would prefer staging so they could do their staging and whatever this provides more interactiveness.

Before you commit yourself see if you can get to some layouts check them out and talk to people.

My personal preference is continuous run. If you put a siding or two in this may be enough to satisfy your staging needs. If you have room have a three or four track yard.

Kalmbach and Atlas have printed a few rewally good layout books. Before you commit see if you can get your hands on them and see if any of their layouts will suit your needs.

Hope this helps

[orsonroy]

Alex,

What's the area for your layout? If you plan it right, and have some room available, you can have BOTH continuous run and staging. This may be a little difficult to explain, but I'll give it a shot:

A shelf layout takes up much less floorspace than a freestanding one, and you'll have less problems with tight curves (never a good thing). If you can run it all the way around the walls of the rom you'll be building your layout in, you'll have a fairly large layout with continuous running. Bridging doorways and windows isn't really a problem. There's lots of ways to do it, from simple liftouts to drop-down sections, to swinging entryways.

Now that you have a layout that runs all the way around the walls on a shelf (leaving the rest of the room open for "real life" activities), what are you going to do with all that empty wall space under the layout? You COULD put bookshelves, entertainment centers, fi***anks, etc., under there, OR you could put in one or two underlayout staging yards. You've already got one shelf full of layout; why not two?

Imagine the basic layout as a loop of track going once around the room. That's your basic part of the layout. Now...add a spur track coming off the mainline, between the main and the wall. Have that track duck underneath the main layout shelf to a staging yard under the layout. Do the same thing going in the other direction, and you've got TWO staging yards, letting you run traffic from one yard, around the layout once or twice, and into the other staging yard. If you get greedy, you can link up both staging yards into ON E big, double-ended staging yard. You'll basically have a two deck layout, but there is a difference. Since the lower part of the layout is for staging only, there doesn't have to be as much seperation between the decks (8" should be plenty). You can make the grade into and out of staging much steeper than normal (8%-10% instead of the normal maximum of 2%-3%). Think of the steep uphill climb out of staging and onto the layout as "the rest of the world", and specifically as the tail end of a helper district. Tack one or two helpers onto a train just to get it out of staging, cut them off once the train is off the grade, and run those helpers back into staging to help the next train out, Trains goind DOWN into staging won't need helpers.

Does this make any sense to you? Obviously, it all depends on your being able to use all the wall in any given room. While I really like point to point layouts, they get boring fast if they're not mega-layouts. Smaller layouts should be continuous run so you can at least watch trains roll along. This will give you the option of either method, and really won't be a "huge" layout if you keep the straight runs at 1" wide. It's a good way to have a larger than normal layout without taking up a lot of family space too!

[Anonymous]

well, I would have to put new doors on my bedroom but it sounds like a good Idea, I will see if it is possible. Thanks !!

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

Alex,

You can make the grade into and out of staging much steeper than normal (8%-10% instead of the normal maximum of 2%-3%). Think of the steep uphill climb out of staging and onto the layout as "the rest of the world",

Funny you mention this. I posted a question on the layout forum a couple of days ago regarding 8 to 10% grades. Everyone who answered my "distress call" recommended that I avoid this severe grade as I would need alot of helpers and would have to keep the length of the consist short. In going to the LHS yesterday and commenting on the fact that I even contemplated 8 to 10% grades, the looks I got were to say the least were bemused to amazed! I've reduced the grade to 5% which is in keeping with two other grades I have of that steepness. Even they require my heavier power to drag freight up the mountain. I have even had to put in a guard rail to eliminate derailments.

Sorry to rain on your parade but. It's better to find out these things now than later as I did as I had to rip up 9 feet of track,ballast and road bed and did a lot of shaving of styrofoam.

It's now Christmas on the MESS. Not a good thing[:(]

[Eriediamond]

Fergmiester, I think Ray was mentioning use of that extremely steep grade only as a means to get trains from a storage or stage area under the main layout and the trackwith the steep grade would not be visible or used as part of normal operations. Only to get trains from that storage area in the short or limited space available.

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Eriediamond

Fergmiester, I think Ray was mentioning use of that extremely steep grade only as a means to get trains from a storage or stage area under the main layout and the trackwith the steep grade would not be visible or used as part of normal operations. Only to get trains from that storage area in the short or limited space available.

Understood. I hope my response wasn't to pointed as it wasn't meant to come across in a negative way. That said I find space/grade issues frustrating and would not want to have others make the same mistakes as I have.

[Eriediamond]

Not at all, Fergmiester. Didn't mean for my repley to sound that way either. Know what you mean about grades. Limited space sometimes means either steep, unrealistic grades or no two level operations. Decissions, decissions[(-D][(-D][(-D] Hope your ballasting is coming along ok.

[orsonroy]

Yeah, my references to the steep grades was ONLY to get trains out of staging. Once on the "real" part of the layout, I'd try to keep grades down to 2% or less (I've got 2.25% grades on a curvy main, and I'm paying for it by only being able to run 10-15 car trains behind single steam locos).

And the steep grade out of staging should be kept to a minimum as well. If Alex is building a layout around a 11x13 bedroom, then he'll have to have steep grades (and connecting both staging yards becomes much easier). If he's able to build around the walls of a basement family room that's 15x25, he'll be able to reduce his grades to 2-4%, which is MUCH better.

And don't worry Fergmeister, I ddin't take your posts negatively. This is supposed to be a discussion on building a layout, and people with different experiences are supposed to be welcomed! Now if you had said that I was full of it...... ;-)

[Fergmiester]

Absolutely not! I consider your opinions to be as always informative and well thought out

Corn field meets are one thing Cow Patty Tossing is another and are for those who don't mind the stench and I have a sensitive nose[:I]

Another option is to have drop leaf staging. By this I mean have your staging on a 1' x 3' or 3' x1' attached to the layout by hinges and when you're not running trains move all your rolling stock onto the table and swing down your leaf on the hinges.

[Eriediamond]

Fergmiester, Thanks for your confidence in my replies. However you may change your mind after this one. Funny you should mention cowpatties. We have a game we play in town here to raise money for charities called "Cowpatty Bingo" every 4th of July. You quikely learn which side of the field to watch from.[(-D][(-D][(-D] Honest !!!!!!

[Fergmiester]

I'd hate to think what the consolation prize would be but then again I bet you guys give a new meaning to the phrase "In greener pastures"

Make interesting modelling MMmmmmmm?

[Anonymous]

Well, I have been looking at my plans and I will describe my plan. Here it is : I will build a shelf layout in stages ( unless MRP lends some different ideas, I will be getting it sat. ) I do not think I am ready to build it all at once. there will be 2 stub ended staging yards on the lower level of the layout. the continuse run will be achived by putting swing gates over the doors ( probably part of the 2nd phase ) Thanks for your suggestions guys !!