Windows in Downtown Deco structure

[modelmaker51]

I don't think CNJ or Simon meant any slight, if you'll notice the number of posts each have you might realize that they (and I) have seen many a post where the OP was beyond their skill level, (and there's no way to know just from reading your o.p.). Maybe CNJ shouldn't have made that assumption, but I'm sure he didn't mean to dis you.

I am not familiar with the DD kit, so I probably won't be much help either. You did say you have plastic window castings didn't you, can't you use them as templates to cut out the acetate or am I missing something?

[downtowndeco]

All this angst over the glazing in a few windows...:  )

 All I can say is I try the best I can to provide kits that are unique and relatively easy to assemble. No, they are not snap together kits. They are not laser cut. They are not plastic kits made in China. Each and every one of them is unique and the patterns are hand carved, brick by brick, stone by stone in my shop in Montana. If someone runs into a problem with a kit I welcome them to call me personally & I'll try & help them out. Sometimes a little extra work is required (compared to plastic kits). I try to learn from my mistakes and improve the kits as I go along. In any case, I'll look into having the glazing laser cut on all of the future kits. And again, if any one ever has a question or problem feel free to touch base with me.

 Have fun modeling. Cheers!

 Randy Pepprock

Downtown Deco

[intalco39]

Hi Jack. I glued it to the back of the window. Unless you look very closly with eyes better than mine, you can't tell the difference.

Wayne.

[jackn2mpu]

Jack, I've not built Grimms but have done 2 other DD kits and one of them was Addams Avenue Part 3 which had 2 different types of arch top windows. I cut them to width and hieght and clipped the top corners off at 45 degrees. After gluing the blank to the frame and letting it set completely, I carved the clear styrene with my #11 blade. It worked great. I then glued tissue paper curtains to the inside of window before installing the window in the wall. Hope this helps.

Wayne.

Question: when you did this - did you glue the glazing to the absolute back of the plastic casting or did you try and fit it inside the casting? On these plastic window castings it looks like it's possible to inset the glazing material inside the back of it.

[jackn2mpu]

To CNJ831 and Blind Bruce:

I know they are craftsman kits. I have put my time in with enough wood craftsman kits to have an appreciation for the work required. I have no problems with those. So the comments that I would be better served by shake-the-box kits were not needed nor welcome. There's a difference between putting in work needed and banging one's head against the wall with an inadequately designed kit and instructions. And Bruce, I have built my own ham gear - a couple of 2 mtr. FM rigs back in the 70's and a 6 mtr. rig in the 90's, so there!

Jack, no slights were intended by my response to your question but understand that you are not the first person on this forum to complain about the supposed inadequacies, or short-comings in perfectly good, high quality, craftsman kits. Believe me, no facet of building Grimm's - honestly a relatively slimple kit as some high-end craftsman kits go - would be considered any problem by an experienced model builder. It must also be understood that Grimm's is a plaster cast structure and as such no two window openings are likely to prove exactly the same size. So, by the way Grimm's was designed, no template, had one been provided, would have proven of much real use. Cutting an fitting glazing to individual window openings by trial and error (the same for that matter goes for many kit parts in wood kits) is in no way unusual nor unconventional with craftsman kits. I have no idea what wooden kits you may have worked previously but DD's kits are a significant step above wood kits like Bar Mills, Blair Line and some others. I can only say that if you are troubled by aspects of a DD kit, don't try one of those from FSM.

CNJ831 

To tell the truth, I don't consider DD kits 'high end craftsman' kits. They're more like a high end shake the box kit. And what I was talking about was fitting the glazing material to the back of the plastic window casting that goes INTO the cutout in the hydrocal wall casting. I know the wall openings will be slightly different sizes. So, the idea of a template for the window glazing would work, as that would be fitted to the plastic window piece and NOT the hydrocal wall itself.
I have built, in no particular order of difficulty, Master Creations kits, MicroScale Models kits, DPM kits, Bar Mills and FSM kits. Once I got a NWSL Chopper to cut the wood, I had no problem at all putting those kits together. Of course with wood one has a lot more leeway to put things together than with hydrocal kits.
As I said, I don't mind putting the work into a well-designed structure, I just don't like beating my head into a wall working around something that hasn't been given some thought to. I've scratch-built as well, and that has worked out okay for me, and A LOT less hassles (other than getting the material together) than this stupid Downtown Deco kit.
What I didn't like was the automatic response to my original post wherein I asked a question about a problem I was having with the kit, and you expressed the thought that I didn't have the modeling chops. I suppose you've never had a problem with a kit that you couldn't solve yourself and had to ask for help? That's all I did. If I post a picture of a project and someone critiques it negatively, that I can take. But to automatically dis someone out of hand for no reason - that's where I draw the line.

[intalco39]

Jack, I've not built Grimms but have done 2 other DD kits and one of them was Addams Avenue Part 3 which had 2 different types of arch top windows. I cut them to width and hieght and clipped the top corners off at 45 degrees. After gluing the blank to the frame and letting it set completely, I carved the clear styrene with my #11 blade. It worked great. I then glued tissue paper curtains to the inside of window before installing the window in the wall. Hope this helps.

Wayne.

[simon1966]

Actually Jack, if you look carefully you will see that my structures windows have a slight arch as well.  So I know exactly what you are having to go through.  The good news is that clear sheet acetate is generally in good supply so I was able to mess up a few of the windows!

[CNJ831]

To CNJ831 and Blind Bruce:

I know they are craftsman kits. I have put my time in with enough wood craftsman kits to have an appreciation for the work required. I have no problems with those. So the comments that I would be better served by shake-the-box kits were not needed nor welcome. There's a difference between putting in work needed and banging one's head against the wall with an inadequately designed kit and instructions. And Bruce, I have built my own ham gear - a couple of 2 mtr. FM rigs back in the 70's and a 6 mtr. rig in the 90's, so there!

Jack, no slights were intended by my response to your question but understand that you are not the first person on this forum to complain about the supposed inadequacies, or short-comings in perfectly good, high quality, craftsman kits. Believe me, no facet of building Grimm's - honestly a relatively slimple kit as some high-end craftsman kits go - would be considered any problem by an experienced model builder. It must also be understood that Grimm's is a plaster cast structure and as such no two window openings are likely to prove exactly the same size. So, by the way Grimm's was designed, no template, had one been provided, would have proven of much real use. Cutting an fitting glazing to individual window openings by trial and error (the same for that matter goes for many kit parts in wood kits) is in no way unusual nor unconventional with craftsman kits. I have no idea what wooden kits you may have worked previously but DD's kits are a significant step above wood kits like Bar Mills, Blair Line and some others. I can only say that if you are troubled by aspects of a DD kit, don't try one of those from FSM.

CNJ831 

[jackn2mpu]

To CNJ831 and Blind Bruce:

I know they are craftsman kits. I have put my time in with enough wood craftsman kits to have an appreciation for the work required. I have no problems with those. So the comments that I would be better served by shake-the-box kits were not needed nor welcome. There's a difference between putting in work needed and banging one's head against the wall with an inadequately designed kit and instructions. And Bruce, I have built my own ham gear - a couple of 2 mtr. FM rigs back in the 70's and a 6 mtr. rig in the 90's, so there!

To Simon:

Thanks for some useful hints. The one thing you have an advantage with the picture you show is it looks like the window glazing is rectangular, considering the cutouts in the wall casting shown. That would be easy, but as you know, the ones in Grimm's have an arch at the top, and there are some windows that are round. It would have been appreciated if Randy had at least provided a template for the window glazing printed on the instruction sheets. I have wood craftsman kits that at least do THAT much for the modeler.

[simon1966]

I have not made Grimm's, but have made a couple of other Downtown Deco Hydro-cal kits, looking at images of Grimm's on the web it looks like the window openings and therefore the methods are the same as the models I have worked on.

What I did was to first test fit the plastic window frames into the cast window openings.  Some of these needed some careful sanding and smoothing to get a nice fit.  I then made a template for the window glass out of paper.  This takes some trial and error to get right.  Once you have a good template then then sharp blade is all you need to to make the panes. An alternative if you have one is to use a NWSL Chopper to cut accurate widths for the windows, but the curves will have to be hand cut.  There really are not short cuts for this.

[Blind Bruce]

I.m afraid CNJ831 is correct in his explaination of this kit being a craftsman type kit. I have absolutely NO experience with hydrocal but I have spent many years working with wood "craftsman" kits. The joy of building such a kit is second only to the high you get when you finish your first scratchbuilt structure or loco. If you don't have the patience or desire for this, and many (if not most) do not, then the ready to run or shake the box is the way to go.

It's sort of like building your own TX/RX or buying one ready made hi hi.

VE4BLB

[CNJ831]

Jack, the Downtown Deco buildings are craftsman kits and as such the builder is expected to expend considerable time and usually significant effort working on them. The particular type of windows on the Grimm building do not lend themselves to any particular shortcuts in glazing that I'm aware of. Things like Micro Krystal Clear, or clear canopy cement, will not span the broad gaps in the window framing (although these work quite well for small, multi-pane windows). My best advice is to trace out the shape of a given window opening from the interior, cut some clear plastic blanks to size and then individually trim them to the exact size/shape of each individual window opening.

CNJ831 

[jackn2mpu]

I have a Downtown Deco kit (Grimm's Funeral Home) that I've had a love/hate/love/hate relationship for about a year now. When I got it home and opened it up I was severely disappointed in the quality of the hydrocal castings. A couple were broken but could be put back together no problem. Some had what looked like there were problems with the molds themselves. Maybe Randy (the manufacturer) does this on purpose to add to the 'atmosphere' of the building?

Anyways, I put it away for some months and went back to working on it a couple of weeks back. Got it assembled using Goo, which I let set up for a week before handling things. This worked out okay, save for a little bit of ooze at a seam. Primed it using slightly thinned down Kilz primer with a top coat of Oxide Red artist's acrylic.

Next comes paint the windows and doors. No problem. Next comes adding glazing. Now here's where I get to another hate part of this structure - how do I cut the clear plastic to fit the windows AND go in the holes in the wall? You can't just trace around the front outline of the window casting. Tracing around the outside back of the window is a real pain. It seems like the glazing material should sit inside the back of the window casting. That's an even bigger pain to do. I've seen something in the past that's a liquid that allows you to 'paint' a clear glazing on a window casting. Does this stuff really work? And what about gluing something to the back of it to simulate drapes or curtains? The wall castings on these structure are so thick you just can't put something on the back of the wall and make it look good.How do you other modelers out there do your window in DD kits?

Thanks much.