How do leasing companies paint their engines? Is it safe to say that the colors, livery and numberboards of most units owned and leased our by leasing companies are kept in the original colors and livery as first delivered...with just the leasing company's reporting mark stenciled on..."HCLX" or "FURX" for example?
I recently saw a BNSF unit running in Virginia, plain and simple BNSF SD40-2 colors...and I thought "cool, foreign motive power!", ...except that when it ran by, it said "FURX" on the side. That's all that differentiated it. Had BNSF markings except for the reporting mark, marked FURX in a stenciled area. Surprised me. Do they eventually repaint these things or just let them go as is indefinitely? If so, all I need to do i stencil on "FURX" on the side of a class one engine and I have a plausible leased unit that can run with my shortline? Well, that would sure make things simple, until I get around to stripping some of these engines for a repaint.
Does anyone have a notion of how much shortlines rely upon leased engines...or is it just a class one practice?
A lot of these companies that lease equipment buy used equipment from a class 1 railroad, strip off any identifying markers, and paint on their own name while leaving the railroad paint scheme of the company they purchased it from on the locomotive. I modeled an SD45-2 in a HELM scheme and in the prototype photo, the CSX paint and markings are visible thru the fresh primer gray and white HELM lettering.
I also pass a UP yard everyday and it's not unusual to see a few GP38-2's in the UP Armor yellow and harbor mist gray and in bright red letters brandishing a LLCX logo. It costs them a lot to totally refurbish a locomotive into a Lease unit company logo and paint scheme so stencilling over another's freshly removed road name isn't as expensive.....chuck
Unless the original paint is failing, many second owners (leasing companies and short lines) simply 'patch' their newly-acquired units. Frequently, if a unit is re-painted without stripping, the original paint scheme comes through when the newly-applied paint peels or flakes off. It isn't easy to get all the oil off a diesel loco - and any oil on the surface will cause almost-immediate paint failure.
About the only time a unit will be stripped to bare metal and completely repainted (primer plus ? coats) is when a unit has been assembled from parts - long hood from here, dynamic brake fans from there, cab from somewhere and access doors from wherever. Leasing companies and rebuilders sometimes make one good one from two (or more) bad ones, and hide the evidence under a pretty paint job.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where all the 1067mm gauge diesels belonged to the National Railway)
Like every one said, most leasing companys just patch there locomotives. And example would be EMDs SD35 "rentals". They where former NW and they just painted over the NW and slapped an EMD sticker on the nose and side.
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There are many ways to skin a cat when it comes to leasing. Leasing companies can buy retired locomotives and paint out the reporting marks and lease them out with the old paint scheme and the leasing company's reporting marks. Typically these engines were acquired in good shape and haven't required a rebuilding. Normally these are short term leases (a month to a year).Leasing companies can completely repaint the locomotives into their paint scheme. Typically these are units that have been rebuilt or upgraded. Normally these are short term leases.Engines can be leased to a railroad, then the units painted in the railroad's paint scheme, and lettered and numbered for the railroad that leased them. They are normally long term leases (5 to 15 years). Many of these leased engines are brand new engines leased from the locomotive builder or the builder's leasing arm. This type of unit may be indistinguishable from an owned unit by the casual observer.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
LTEX is painting their GP15s at the WSOR's Horicon Paint Shop. A few of these locos have turned up at LTEX's home shop, as well as the Bloomer. There are 3 different paint schemes...a orange and grey, a black and red, and a black, red, and grey.
Phil
And then there's those companies that do it up right when they buy old, used lease power...
shawnee wrote: Does anyone have a notion of how much shortlines rely upon leased engines...or is it just a class one practice?
This is just an impression, don't have numbers to back it up, but I would say it's more common for the big railroads to lease engines than shortlines. I see lease units all the time on the BNSF and CP mainlines near my home, I can't recall seeing a leased unit on any local shortlines like Progressive Rail, DM&E, TC&W etc. That doesn't mean they haven't leased engines, or don't lease them, but I can't remember seeing any.
Remember, leased units can also be painted for the railroad they run on.
So a locomotive could go by painted for your shortline and STILL be a leased unit. The only way you'd know for sure is to look at the financial records for the railroad.
shawnee wrote:Interesting...I've got to look into leasing companies (wonder how many there are?) and see which ones leased out the type of units I have...SD38-2s, GP35s and SD40s. I think it may make more sense for my shortline to "lease" power rather than go through stripping and repainting these engines anytime soon...hgot enough other things to do on the layout! Leasing...yes!
Even if your short line bought the ex-Class I units outright (for $1 more than the trade-in value) it would patch rather than repaint, at least until there was a valid reason to spend the non-revenue time. The only exceptions, IMHO, would be:
The usual valid reason for pulling a locomotive out of revenue service would be a major overhaul/upgrade. Most short lines would contract that sort of work to a rebuilder, or would simply trade their old unit for one that has already been overhauled.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
It's not just the leasing companies that do this. Norfolk Southern frequently leases locomotives to its partner "Thoroughbred" shortlines. The vast majority remain in NS paint and lettering by contract.
One major exception is the Norfolk and Portsmouth Belt Line, which is a switching railroad in its namesake cities in Virginia. People would call NS corporate headquarters in Norfolk to complain about "their train" blocking grade crossings while switching freight cars, so NS paints out their logo on Belt Line locomotives and restencils them NPBL.
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Or you could do the other option, Patching. Many Short lines/Regionals patch there locomotives. When Wisconsin Central was first starting up, most of there fleet was still in BN, and SOO livery. They leased a few units from CR too. It took them 7 years before there first purchased SD45s (BN) where all painted in WC livery (From 87-95, by 95 there was only one or two running around. In 94 I'm no sure how many where still in BN, but still plenty enough). Most of the SOO Geeps Ran around for most of there career unpainted. It wasn't true for the ATSF SD45 on the WC, which had gotten painted with in a year. But for a short line just starting up, a few Geeps could be painted and along with a few SD units, while the majority of the fleet patched.
Another example would be the ICE/DME. They have some patched MRL and CP locomotives.
So it could be another option if you don't want to paint locomotives. Along with leasing.
Several of the leasing companies have their own paint schemes including FURX.
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As far as short lines most short lines have their own colorful paint schemes.There are several web sites that shows these schemes including fallen flags.com
As far as short lines..Yes they can lease a locomotive if needed..I am sure their lease would be under "power by the hour" where they would pay for the hours the locomotive is actually in use instead of paying 24/7...In other words if a locomotive is used 50 hours a week that is what the road would pay for and not the hours the locomotive is shut down.
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One of the great things of modeling leased units is that most of the time only a reporting mark "patch" be applied, with maybe the heralds painted over.
Another idea is come up with a fictional repair/lease facility such as Larry's Truck Electric (LTEX) near Youngstown Ohio. (I'd link to a site that gives ideas on modeling it but it's on my comp which is in the "shop.") They scrap, refurbish, & lease older locos, such as old SP SD40-2 tunnel motors. (a # of WC SD45s bit the dust there also) A definite of the future layout is a similar facility, only doing also with freight cars also. (a bit of a play on FURX, etc) A lot of possibilities IMO!
Hello!
I know the leasing concept is far too new, but modelling the '50 ties in US, was there a kind of leasing (or similar) back then?
Olav in Norway
That's what I did with my SOO Line RS-1. It was old and bought by the Westport Terminal RR.
They added only their name.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
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Here are a couple of 'takeovers' modelled from the prototypes.
OlavM wrote: I know the leasing concept is far too new, but modelling the '50 ties in US, was there a kind of leasing (or similar) back then?
Occaisionally one railroad would lease engines from another (the PRR leased RDG 4-8-4's). A few railroads that had seasonal traffic patterns (BAR for one) would lease some units to other roads with opposite seasonal traffic patterns. But there were no private owner large scale leasing as there has been over the last couple decades.
dehusman wrote: OlavM wrote: I know the leasing concept is far too new, but modelling the '50 ties in US, was there a kind of leasing (or similar) back then?Occaisionally one railroad would lease engines from another (the PRR leased RDG 4-8-4's). A few railroads that had seasonal traffic patterns (BAR for one) would lease some units to other roads with opposite seasonal traffic patterns. But there were no private owner large scale leasing as there has been over the last couple decades.Dave H.
The Duluth Missabe and Iron Range RR in Minnesota leased quite a few engines from other railroads. They didn't start buying road diesels until 1955, and ran heavy steam until 1960, but in the transition period leased diesels from other roads. Many were from "family" railroads - other railroads who were also owned by U.S. Steel, like Bessemer and Lake Erie F units (some were on the DMIR long enough to have Missabe heralds added to them) and Union RR RS-2's. They also leased FT's and IIRC F7's from neighbor Great Northern.
Plus they used demonstrators, including the FM Trainmaster demonstrators in 1953.
Great info! When leasing engines back then, was the engines repainted or marked in a special way?
Olav
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teen steam fan wrote:why don't railroads purchase a used or a new locomotive inseade of leasting for 15 years or so.
Because when you consider the tax liabilities, etc., its cheaper to lease and get a newer, more efficient model in 15 years or so.