Busted!!

[Big_Boy_4005]

This quote is from the Graffiti: Art or Vandalism Topic that I posted on Tuesday.

QUOTE: By FundyNorthern Posted: 17 Feb 2004, 20:42:46
I think it is vandalism. What gets me is that I've heard of railfans with cameras being hassled by police and railway police for not doing anything at all other than being NEAR railroads. Yet the graffiti artists seem to have no problem at all accessing railway cars and spending hours defacing them. Maybe if the photographers were carrying spray cans instead of cameras they might not be bothered?

BB in Canada

Well, It finally happened[V], today I went to my favorite spot for taking photos, where I had visited only this past Tuesday, and there HE was -- Railroad cop!

It was no big deal, he just asked me nicely to leave, and I did. I suppose he wrote down my license plate number. Personally, I feel that it is a HUGE waste of their time to sit there and chase the "friendlys" away. This terrorist crap is just a bunch of paranoia, and frankly railfans may be part of the solution, not the problem.

I understand that for safety reasons they don't like people hanging around the tracks, but I think its bad PR to chase polite well behaved railfans just because the best place to find trains happens to be on railroad property.

I have no idea how long this "crackdown" will last, or if this is a mutual effort of the BNSF, CP, and UP who all share this really cool stretch of track, but I hope that they give it up soon, because this is the best spot in town!!!

Here's one from Tuesday, and one from today. Of course the weather today was rather blustery.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

This quote is from the Graffiti: Art or Vandalism Topic that I posted on Tuesday.

QUOTE: By FundyNorthern Posted: 17 Feb 2004, 20:42:46
I think it is vandalism. What gets me is that I've heard of railfans with cameras being hassled by police and railway police for not doing anything at all other than being NEAR railroads. Yet the graffiti artists seem to have no problem at all accessing railway cars and spending hours defacing them. Maybe if the photographers were carrying spray cans instead of cameras they might not be bothered?

BB in Canada

Well, It finally happened[V], today I went to my favorite spot for taking photos, where I had visited only this past Tuesday, and there HE was -- Railroad cop!

It was no big deal, he just asked me nicely to leave, and I did. I suppose he wrote down my license plate number. Personally, I feel that it is a HUGE waste of their time to sit there and chase the "friendlys" away. This terrorist crap is just a bunch of paranoia, and frankly railfans may be part of the solution, not the problem.

I understand that for safety reasons they don't like people hanging around the tracks, but I think its bad PR to chase polite well behaved railfans just because the best place to find trains happens to be on railroad property.

I have no idea how long this "crackdown" will last, or if this is a mutual effort of the BNSF, CP, and UP who all share this really cool stretch of track, but I hope that they give it up soon, because this is the best spot in town!!!

Here's one from Tuesday, and one from today. Of course the weather today was rather blustery.

Where you on RR property?

[Anonymous]

bump

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately BB4005, we'll never know if it's increasing paranoia within the minds of security personnel given the prospect of (possible) terrrorism...or one patrolman quietly revelling in his power to have you leave the premises. I suspect the railroads would utter the words "increased vigilance" in defense of the security guard, whether it sounded truthful or not. We're all paying handsomely for the unfortunate tragedy of 9/ll. Still, the photos you took were great! Thanks for sharing them.[:D]

[Fergmiester]

You may also be a victim of "Real Life Videos". If you are in the right spot at the right time you maybe an unwitting witness to an accident or other occurrence which is irrefutable in court and it's not you that's busted but rather them.

On the other hand where do the authorities draw the line? With the recent surge of fruitcakes a.k.a. Oklahoma 9-11 the authorities are erring on the side of caution. At least they didn't hand cuff you and read you your rights. This unfortunately this is our reality and will only come to an end when... Something I don't have an answer to.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Well, It finally happened[V], today I went to my favorite spot for taking photos, where I had visited only this past Tuesday, and there HE was -- Railroad cop!

It was no big deal, he just asked me nicely to leave, and I did. I suppose he wrote down my license plate number. Personally, I feel that it is a HUGE waste of their time to sit there and chase the "friendlys" away. This terrorist crap is just a bunch of paranoia, and frankly railfans may be part of the solution, not the problem.

If you were on public property, i.e., a right-of-way for a road or similiar, or on private property with permission of the owner, he had absolutely NO legal right to make you move. None. Zip.

Personally, I'd like to see someone stand up to the railroad rent-a-cops and, if necessary, fight this in court, preferably for thousands of dollars in damages for their violation of your rights.

[Anonymous]

Hey we all know how much damage a camera can do to hundreds of tons of steel. [(-D][(-D] Seriously though I think it could have been an individual on a power trip.

Thanks,
Jeremy

[Anonymous]

Something that I find interesting is that the railroad cops will chase train lovers away in broad daylight in a highly visible area.

If someone was going to do something to cause trouble they would only have to go to a section of track out in the boonies, smack away with a sledgehammer or something to knock the track slightly off kilter and be done in less than a minute.

I would think they would encourage train buffs because who else would want to preserve the trains and raillines more?? [2c]

[Anonymous]

That's a bummer. When I lived in the Minneapolis area, Pig's Eye was one of my favorite places too. A good place to see a lot of the roads that operate in Minnesota.
I remember being able to have my dad drive around near the CP shop and along the UP yard and park for a while near the tracks without any problems at all.

[dharmon]

If thay are real RR police, then they are not rent a cops, they have actual powers as law enforcement officers. If you were on RR property they have the right to ask you to leave or apprehend you if you were doing something illegal. Best to find a place on public property to railfan from. On public property if they hassle you, you have a case.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I must admit, that I was on railroad property, and that it was clearly marked. As a matter of fact the railroads have added EXTRA signage recently.

When I pulled up I saw the unmarked car with the antenna, and suspected that I would be asked to leave, and sure enough, within two minutes I was. He may have just been on his lunch break, but no matter, there weren't any trains at that moment anyway.

The lower photo was taken about a mile west, from an overpass on a city street. A different perspective to be sure, but not my favorite spot.

I wonder what he would have said if I had had my scanner with me too?

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dhesh

That's a bummer. When I lived in the Minneapolis area, Pig's Eye was one of my favorite places too. A good place to see a lot of the roads that operate in Minnesota.
I remember being able to have my dad drive around near the CP shop and along the UP yard and park for a while near the tracks without any problems at all.

You seem to know the spot well! This is actually a spot published in Kalmbach's Guide To Train Watching Hot Spots, and a place that I have frequented for years. It is also going to be featured on the layout that I am currently building. You could say that I was doing research, but I already have what I need for my modeling purposes.[:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I must admit, that I was on railroad property, and that it was clearly marked. As a matter of fact the railroads have added EXTRA signage recently.

When I pulled up I saw the unmarked car with the antenna, and suspected that I would be asked to leave, and sure enough, within two minutes I was. He may have just been on his lunch break, but no matter, there weren't any trains at that moment anyway.

The lower photo was taken about a mile west, from an overpass on a city street. A different perspective to be sure, but not my favorite spot.

I wonder what he would have said if I had had my scanner with me too?

OK, even before 9-11 you could get arrested for trespassing. You can thank the idiots that run there cars around lowered crossing gates and sue. Conrail used to let people railfan on there property as long as you stayed of the tracks but EVIL NS HATES and is HATED by ex-CR Railfans and employees.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I must admit, that I was on railroad property, and that it was clearly marked. As a matter of fact the railroads have added EXTRA signage recently.

When I pulled up I saw the unmarked car with the antenna, and suspected that I would be asked to leave, and sure enough, within two minutes I was. He may have just been on his lunch break, but no matter, there weren't any trains at that moment anyway.

The lower photo was taken about a mile west, from an overpass on a city street. A different perspective to be sure, but not my favorite spot.

I wonder what he would have said if I had had my scanner with me too?

I do not railfan, as in actively go out and chase trains, I kind of do it on a target of opportunity basis, but from what I gather the RR police generally have enough experince with railfans that there is usually no problem, as long as no problem is created. For the RRs it's not just a security, as in terrorist thing...although that is often used as a catch all..but crime/vandalism security issues as well as a safety/liability issue. Lawsuits from idiots or their survivors doind stupid stuff around trains is costly. Additionlly, RRs like any industry really don't like folks watching and filming what they do....they are not in the PR business they're in the transportation business and having a crew caught on tape doing something wrong airing on Ch10 news at 11 is always bad. Security just becomes the blanket cover for it all.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I must admit, that I was on railroad property, and that it was clearly marked. As a matter of fact the railroads have added EXTRA signage recently.

Then you were wrong. And you make life harder on those of us who respect their railroad's property rights.

[Anonymous]

Ok this is off topic but the second unit in the first photo was that a CNW SD45?

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNWfan5525

Ok this is off topic but the second unit in the first photo was that a CNW SD45?

I think if it were a SD45 the radiator would be flared from the dynamics all the way to the rear of the long hood. It looks vertical to me, but then again it could be my screen.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNWfan5525

Ok this is off topic but the second unit in the first photo was that a CNW SD45?

I think if it were a SD45 the radiator would be flared from the dynamics all the way to the rear of the long hood. It looks vertical to me, but then again it could be my screen.

Rather than keep you guessing.......


By the way, back in 1999 when the NMRA national convention was in town, this piece of railroad property was always full of railfans, and looked like a parking lot, and the railroads never batted an eye.

I think my experience today was just bad timing, because on other occasions I have encountered other railroad employees at this location who didn't seem to mind at all.

[dharmon]

It's unfortunate that times have changed. Nice pics though, the next shot it would seem, does in fact answer the question.

[Hawks05]

Where were those taken? the spot looks familiar even though i don't go railfanning in the cities. i think just driving though does that.

Big Boy i'll try and send you an email tonight.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hawks, THAT'S DAYTON'S BLUFF!!!! The place I've been telling you about. Good thing you were in school today, not that anything bad happened, but the weather was crappy, and I nearly got skunked anyway.[:D]

[Hawks05]

cool. that looks so familiar.

i wish i would have been out of school. i paid for being in. i stayed up till midnight thinking we wouldn't have it. i had 3 tests so i screwed myself there. oh well. sad thing is i didn't see any trains today.

[Anonymous]

Years ago I used to haul piggyback trailers out of N&S & most railyards in Chicago . The railroad police were very good to me , Most of my movements were at night . I could write a book with all of the things that went on in those hours, daytime also. When you see what they have to go through sometimes. It'll amaze you. Not knowing who they were dealing with, they have to treat everyone with caution & as if you were up to no good. . Those officers are there for a reason & are following orders from the railroad. If they don't do their job , Then it's the unemployment line for them . I do agree with you folks though , "It sucks"...... we realy can not railfan like we used to. PS; I'm on both sides of the fence on this issue, I have tracks that border my property & I do walk their property also. With extream caution................But i'm wrong for doing it too . Kind of a devil on one shoulder & an angel on the other senario. PSS; Try to look at it in their perspective , After 9-11 things have changed for good. We are living in another era now & just have to deal with it. Like you folks, I too miss alot on how things used to be.............. " THINGS CHANGE" ........ & not always for the better...............& I do not intend to offend anyone with my opinions so I appologise if I hurt anyones feelings or ruffled anyones feathers. Welcome to the 21st century. "WHAT NEXT "?

[lupo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by dhesh

That's a bummer. When I lived in the Minneapolis area, Pig's Eye was one of my favorite places too. A good place to see a lot of the roads that operate in Minnesota.
I remember being able to have my dad drive around near the CP shop and along the UP yard and park for a while near the tracks without any problems at all.

You seem to know the spot well! This is actually a spot published in Kalmbach's Guide To Train Watching Hot Spots, and a place that I have frequented for years. It is also going to be featured on the layout that I am currently building. You could say that I was doing research, but I already have what I need for my modeling purposes.[:D]

Bigboy, why don't you model that situation on your layout ? cops chasing railfans !

[Big_Boy_4005]

Good idea, I hadn't really thought of that.

You and me on the layout being told to clear off by a UP cop. [:D]

I saw the railroad police patch on his sleeve, but I didn't catch which railroad, and he didn't get out of his car. CP posted all of the extra signs, so he might have been one of theirs.

Yeah, Lupo, that wasn't it, I've seen that one before. [:D] The car was dark green, maybe BNSF.

[lupo]

this is how UP police looks like : The Union Pacific Police Department will honor requests for shoulder patches only from sworn law enforcement officers who make the request on their Department's official letterhead.

[METRO]

You know I remeber when I was growing up, having a camera was like a magic pass for railfaning. All I would need was my Pentax K1000 around my neck and the Conrail Cops would just smile and wave. In fact the only time I was ever stopped back in those days was when a cop directed me to a BETTER spot, where he used to take pictures when the line belonged to the NYC.
I would bet good money that there was a rule on the books back then about trespassing, and I know for a fact that those cops were dedicated to their jobs, but I am thankful that they were kind enough to look the other way when I was watching the trains go by.

[Anonymous]

That's because my (and Conrail Guy's) signature is correct.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Hawks, THAT'S DAYTON'S BLUFF!!!! The place I've been telling you about. Good thing you were in school today, not that anything bad happened, but the weather was crappy, and I nearly got skunked anyway.[:D]

This has been on a Pentrex tape and on a Walthers flyer before! There was a place where I live called CP BURN. like this that was in a few tapes and articles that CR let you go to (A dirt lot) AS LONG AS YOU STAYED OFF THE TRACKS. There we're literely 10 people there on a average weekend. Once 'Nazi Southern' moved in here they got rid of all the fun. I would NEVER go on the tracks but railroads don't see it like that anymore.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by METRO

You know I remeber when I was growing up, having a camera was like a magic pass for railfaning. All I would need was my Pentax K1000 around my neck and the Conrail Cops would just smile and wave. In fact the only time I was ever stopped back in those days was when a cop directed me to a BETTER spot, where he used to take pictures when the line belonged to the NYC.
I would bet good money that there was a rule on the books back then about trespassing, and I know for a fact that those cops were dedicated to their jobs, but I am thankful that they were kind enough to look the other way when I was watching the trains go by.

I LOVE CONRAIL!

I HATE NS!