It's almost time for $$$

[jbinkley60]

 

  One of the really advanced "features" of our "system" is the way the uninsured get billed 2.5 to 10 times as much as those with insurance.  

YEP! That's because they are less likely to pay their bills and the hospital can claim a greater loss on it's taxes than what they actually suffer. Great way to legally hide money.

I was listening to a call in radio show this weekend and a bunch of folks called in saying their "rebate" checks were half of what their tax accountants said they would be when they arrived.
Don't count those chickens yet...

Here's the official IRS calculator:

http://www.irs.gov/app/espc/

And the schedule:

http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=180250,00.html

 

[jbinkley60]

I am still bitter that I don't get the refund   Man, I pay more than my fair share of taxes.... GRRRRR!!!

I'm not bitter but it does seem strange that the harder one works to get ahead the quicker they take it away.  I just earned enough to go up the next tax bracket which in effect makes my net income lower than before!  Had to write a 5 digit check just to pay taxes last year because I didn't adjust the deductible well enough.  Oh yes, and that is just a little too much to get the stimulus check.  grumble grumble   Almost enough to make one want to quit and go on the welfare roles.

So for fun I went to the IRS website this morning to see if I would get anything (I knew the answer in advance) the week of June 6th, when they are mailing out my SSN series checks.  The calculator gave me back this message:

Economic Stimulus Payment Calculator

You do not qualify for an economic stimulus payment

According to law, the economic stimulus payment amount that you would otherwise be entitled to receive is reduced by 5% of the amount that your Tax Year 2007 Adjusted Gross Income exceeds $150,000. You would have been eligible for an economic stimulus payment of $1800, but your AGI exceeds $150,000 by enough to reduce that amount to zero.

However, if your situation changes during 2008, you may be able to claim an economic stimulus credit on your Tax Year 2008 return.

 

Wow, not even a "Thank You" from them for everything I paid in.  But plenty of people will claim that the top 10% of incomes paying 50% of the total US tax burden isn't enough.  Welcome to 21st century American politics.

 

[loathar]

 

  One of the really advanced "features" of our "system" is the way the uninsured get billed 2.5 to 10 times as much as those with insurance.  

YEP! That's because they are less likely to pay their bills and the hospital can claim a greater loss on it's taxes than what they actually suffer. Great way to legally hide money.

I was listening to a call in radio show this weekend and a bunch of folks called in saying their "rebate" checks were half of what their tax accountants said they would be when they arrived.
Don't count those chickens yet...

[dinwitty]

My wife's already got it set aside for bathroom renovations

Bruce Chubb had part of his layout going through the downstairs bathroom...hint hint

[Oakhurst Railroad Engineer]

I just found out that since I had a "direct debit" (because I owed money to the IRS) from my bank account instead of a "direct deposit" (if I had a refund), that I will be getting a check instead of an electronic transfer.

Because of my SSN, instead of getting an electronic transfer last Friday, I will get a check mailed in July!

[srud01]

if any one used turbo tax this year and had the filling fees taken out of there refund but had direct deposit They will have to wait for a check insted of direct deposit just found this out thought everyone should know

[trainfan1221]

My tax return always goes straight into the bank so  I don't get to do much with it.  The stimulus check will be put to good use for some things I need, and I have a couple of train related things in mind.  But according to what my friend looked up, my check won't be sent for awhile.  I can wait.

[IRONROOSTER]

Since it's a rebate, you had to pay at least $600 ($1200 couples) to get that much back otherwise you get back what you paid. 

Interesting.

We got a refund and a $1200 check, too.

Uh, by paid I meant what your tax liability was for the year, not whether or not you were over/under on April 15th.  And technically the rebate is for 2008, but they are sending it out based on your 2007 return.  If they over rebate you, they say they won't collect it back next year.  But if you are under rebated, you get the difference next year.

Enjoy whatever you got!!

Paul 

[dale8chevyss]

What checks?  I haven't seen mine and probably never will.  

[mobilman44]

Good Morning!

  For my wife and I, the spending of $1200 was quickly determined to go towards our early June trip to Chama NM (again), and after 3 days there (with a C&T train ride), we would drive down to Taos NM for another 3 days.  Of course we will hit the wonderful casino there, and I hope to pick up a sizeable "rainstick". 

ENJOY,

Mobilman44 

[Midnight Railroader]

Since it's a rebate, you had to pay at least $600 ($1200 couples) to get that much back otherwise you get back what you paid. 

Interesting.

We got a refund and a $1200 check, too.

[IRONROOSTER]

This is what a couple of family members have gotten.  My wifes aunt $300, and her umcle has gotten $600.  Her aunt is single but supports her grandmother.  My wifes uncle is disabled and he doesn't work but his wife does, and they got $600.  We are looking at $700.  We had to pay this year, thats not good at all.  What happened to each ind., will get $600, and couples $1,200, and also each child $300.  If they go by what you made, alot of us are in trouble, and they wonder why the U.S. is tanking. 

Since it's a rebate, you had to pay at least $600 ($1200 couples) to get that much back otherwise you get back what you paid.  The $300, for those who have paid less than $300 (perhaps nothing) but had at least $3000 in income, is basically a rebate of what you paid plus a gift given to help low income people. There's also a phaseout that begins at $75,000 ($150,000 couples) since rich folks don't need it.  There's other rules and amounts when you have dependent children so some will get more than $1200. 

The fairness of it probably depends on how much you got.  Whether it works and jump starts the economy is another story.  Personally, I think it's just window dressing to make you think the government's doing something while the Congress and the President duck the real problems.

Paul

[Robby P.]

This is what a couple of family members have gotten.  My wifes aunt $300, and her umcle has gotten $600.  Her aunt is single but supports her grandmother.  My wifes uncle is disabled and he doesn't work but his wife does, and they got $600.  We are looking at $700.  We had to pay this year, thats not good at all.  What happened to each ind., will get $600, and couples $1,200, and also each child $300.  If they go by what you made, alot of us are in trouble, and they wonder why the U.S. is tanking. 

[jktrains]

JKTrains:

You need to have someone with better reading comprehension skills read those articles you are quoting for you.

Most of what you said is wrong, including your use of the term 2008 rebate in place of 2008 refund.

There is a ton of misinformation floating around in "send this to everyone you know" e-mails.

Phoebe, perhaps the JCT reports are little too technical for you. , the term rebate is the correct term.  I have read the Act that was passed, the JCT technical explanation of the Act and the draft proposals.  The check that everyone will receive is not a refund of overpaid taxes.  The term used in the Act is a rebate.  The Act provides for a credit against your 2008 taxes of $600 per eligible taxpayer and $300 for a qualifying child.  There are certain phaseouts that may reduce the amount.  The Act provides that instead of waiting until you file your 2008 income tax return to claim the credit, the credit will be received in the form of a check, to be issued shortly.  The Treasury is using your 2007 income as an estimate of your 2008 income for determining your eligibility for the credit and therefore to receive a check.  The Act states that there will be a reconciling step as part of preparing a 2008 tax return.  It is anticipated that for most people the credit based on 2007 income and the actual credit using 2008 income will be the same.  If there is a difference and the actual credit based on 2008 income is more than the rebate check issued based on 2007 income, you will get the difference on your 2008 return.  If it turns out to be less then the excess does not have to be repaid.  For example if based on 2007 income levels a part of the credit was phased out and you received less than the full amount in the form of a check, but your 2008 income declined such that no phase out applies you would claim the additional amount as a credit on your 2008 tax return.  Since the idea is to stimulate the economy now, not in 12 months, a rebate, or advance payment of the credit, should be issed currently in the hopes that people will spend it and pump money into the economy.  The limited benefit shown in studies is due to fact that not every dollar is spent, some people save it or us it to pay bills which does nothing to increase demand for goods.

[Phoebe Vet]

JKTrains:

You need to have someone with better reading comprehension skills read those articles you are quoting for you.

Most of what you said is wrong, including your use of the term 2008 rebate in place of 2008 refund.

There is a ton of misinformation floating around in "send this to everyone you know" e-mails.

[Anonymous]

Let's see... $100 to fill up my gas tank... $1200 refund.... maybe enough gas to last through part of the summer... wow...

[markpierce]

I am still bitter that I don't get the refund   Man, I pay more than my fair share of taxes.... GRRRRR!!!

I'm not bitter but it does seem strange that the harder one works to get ahead the quicker they take it away.  I just earned enough to go up the next tax bracket which in effect makes my net income lower than before!  Had to write a 5 digit check just to pay taxes last year because I didn't adjust the deductible well enough.  Oh yes, and that is just a little too much to get the stimulus check.  grumble grumble   Almost enough to make one want to quit and go on the welfare roles.

Am there, doing that: no rebate, lost almost all deductions and the "lower" capital gains tax rate (paying taxes on imaginary gains) and dividend (double) tax rates due to AMT, even though I have but a five-digit income.  It is only going to get worse.  While you and I already fund health care (in addition to food and housing) for the old and indigent, most people, according to the media, now seem to think it is a dandy idea that we also pay for their health care too.

Mark

[ShadowNix]

I am still bitter that I don't get the refund   Man, I pay more than my fair share of taxes.... GRRRRR!!!

I'm not bitter but it does seem strange that the harder one works to get ahead the quicker they take it away.  I just earned enough to go up the next tax bracket which in effect makes my net income lower than before!  Had to write a 5 digit check just to pay taxes last year because I didn't adjust the deductible well enough.  Oh yes, and that is just a little too much to get the stimulus check.  grumble grumble   Almost enough to make one want to quit and go on the welfare roles.

Isn't it funny how the IRS works?  I mean it is so hard to get a straight answer on how many deductions to take it cracks me up?  Then you get 5 digit BAM and that gets your attention!!! Jeesh!  I was lucky, the first year I became an attending (physician) and my pay went up, I took the usual number of deductions (kids, married...yadda yadda)... an BAM, got a 5 digit REFUND.... go figure...made no sense to me....  Ah well, gotta give beauracrats something to do, eh?  Heheheh have a good one guys... fun chewing the fat here... keeps my blood pressure down!

Brian

[secondhandmodeler]

As far as I know, the checks are a result of the elimination of the ten percent tax bracket.  The money you would have saved in 08' from this cut is being given back with 07' tax refunds.  This is the reason that you have to file 07' taxes in order to receive your check.  If your income changes in 08' and you had less coming to you then previously projected, you don't have to pay if back.  They are apperently giving out this tax break a year early in order to 'stimulate' the economy.  I know I butchered this explanation, but it is all I can recall at this time.

[Texas Zepher]

I am still bitter that I don't get the refund   Man, I pay more than my fair share of taxes.... GRRRRR!!!

I'm not bitter but it does seem strange that the harder one works to get ahead the quicker they take it away.  I just earned enough to go up the next tax bracket which in effect makes my net income lower than before!  Had to write a 5 digit check just to pay taxes last year because I didn't adjust the deductible well enough.  Oh yes, and that is just a little too much to get the stimulus check.  grumble grumble   Almost enough to make one want to quit and go on the welfare roles.

[Great Western Rwy fan]

I don't think it will have to be repayed...Read this..

• According to the information posted by the IRS the refund will not be includible as taxable income on the 2008 returns.
• According to the information posted by the IRS the stimulus payment will not reduce or increase your refund when you file your 2008 return.
• According to outside analysts it does appear that the actual refund will be recalculated on the 2008 return and compared to the advance refund received. If the refund received should have been higher a credit will be given on the 2008 return against the taxes due but if the refund received should have been lower the difference will not have to be repaid. At this point the analysis does not indicate that any negative effect is expected. However this information is not verified in the IRS information available at this time and therefore is being presented only as a possibility and to make readers aware that they should pay close attention to how this is handled when it is time for preparation of 2008 returns.

[jktrains]

We need to remember that this stimulus check is not money from the government.  It is money that we have overpaid in taxes. 

It is great to hear about everyones new train wish lists.  I made mine last month so I will be caught up for a while.

Sue

Sue - the stimulus check is not a refund of overpaid taxes.  The stimulus check is actually considered an advance of your 2008 refund. 

When you look at your 2008 1040, which has not been drafted yet, there will be a calculation needed on your 2008 tax return that will calculate your rebate based on your 2008 income and compare it to the rebate you received.  If there is a difference, if it is in your favor the additional amount will go as a credit on 2008's 1040, if it is negative, then the difference is not required to be repaid.  the Gov't is merely using your 2007 income as an estimate of your 2008 income to base the rebate on.  But your 2008 rebate will be reduced by that amount.  Uncle Sam is just giving you a portion of it early.

The initial effect on the budget is to increase the deficit by an estimated 116.7 billion dollars in 2008 and 2009 fiscal years.  This is based on a estimate prepared by the Joint Committee on Taxation.  I don't believe this estimate includes the cost of processing the checks, mailing those nice letters to tell you you're going to get a rebate (approx $42 mil) and other costs.

http://www.house.gov/jct/x-17-08.pdf

For everybody that thinks the rebates are a great need to read the JCT review of previous economic stimulus programs and the macroeconomic effect of rebates.  Follow the link beloew and read beginning on the last paragraph on page 26 of the report - Macroeconomic response to rebates.  In a nutshell, there is very little effect on the economy from rebates - 0.1% increase in GDP; 0.2% increase in consumption; 0.1% increase in employment.  Somoe studies found almost no benefit and possibly a negative effect in periods after the rebates are issued.

http://www.house.gov/jct/x-4-08r.pdf

Also consider that the increase in the deficit must be funded by additional borrowing by the government which has an adverse effect by increasing interest rates.  The governemt's hope is that the increased spending will lead to increased tax revenues from increased income taxes.  Unfortunately, the sheer difference in timing between the outflow and the inflow and the interest that must be paid is staggering to most people.

All in all, the through benefit on individual income tax rebates is minor to questionable.  before you go out and make plans to spend your share of the $116.7 billion borrowed by Uncle Sam, consideer that somebody has to pay it back, with interest.

[highhood63]

Well mine will go back into savings to be trotted out again when Athearn Releases the NS Highhood SD40-2 , and Atlas releases the NS and SOU MP-15's both due in September. I have two of each pre-ordered....that should finish up my motive power list.

 

[Lillen]

Magnus and ShadowNix: Thanks for the "give & take" on the taxation situation. Very interesting to hear! For sure!

I will chime in with an opinion on the health care situation though....

We (the US) are the only civilized / industrial nation that doesn't take care of it populous! I have all sort of relation across the Northern border in Canada....some complain the system doesn't work (most in regard to having to wait for certain things / procedures) and others that feel it's a good system in regard to providing great care when it's truly needed.

The problem here (again in the US) is that unless your employer helps with the payment of the premium, a person can't afford to buy health insurance.

I will use my own situation as an example: I am a twenty year employee of a school district and do not qualify for the "group insurance". This, by the way is extremely convoluted between the classes of employees. But...At this point in time in my employ, I can have the privilege to work the entire month, take those earnings, add about $100 (out of empty pocket by this time) to those total earnings and be able to pay the health care perineum. Just to pay for the health care would leave me in the hole, month after month with no real income! Thus, I have NO health insurance! But I can pay for gas, electric, food and such! Something is MAJOR wrong here!

Soooo....In closing and again stepping down from my soapbox...I would much rather "wait" for something than have nothing!

 

Thanks for you input as well. It is interesting to read about the different systems. I'm quite sure that neither system, your or ours are perfect.

 

I will give you an example about our system, now of course anecdotal evidence is hardly proof of everything but still, it's an example from my private life which might make people think.

 

My wife asked for treatment for a disease in the spring of 2000. She received nothing, she had to wait for about 18 months before she got at a time at the doctor to be evaluated. That was rushed since we really begged for it when she was pregnant and that made her jump the line. But that was just a 30 minute evaluation to see if she needed health care. She qualified. Then jump forward a long while, until this spring, about two months ago. My wife's parents finally said to heck with it and paid for the treatment at a private doctor. About a month later, she finally got into the "universal health care" system.

 

Now, of course this wasn't for a broken leg or something but something a bit more special, but absolutely nothing fancy. So is 8 years of waiting acceptable? I don't think so, especially given the taxes we are paying. A system the forces both people in a relationship to work 100% just to be able to afford a minimum.

 

One should ad that our system is also being discussed if it works or not. We also have the discussions about the retirement systems not going to be able to hold on to the decent level it is today and that perhaps retirements will have to be postponed until we are 70(we retire at 65 now)

 

So in conclusion, both systems have problems, neither is perfect. If would be free to choose I would choose your system despite it's limitations. Or I would go even further then that and really let people choose for them self.

 

Magnus

 

PS I know we are not suppose to discussing politics but I really hope we are not going to far. Seeing how we are all civil I do hope that we are allowed to keep this topic going. I love these kind of issues.

[colvinbackshop]

Magnus and ShadowNix: Thanks for the "give & take" on the taxation situation. Very interesting to hear! For sure!

I will chime in with an opinion on the health care situation though....

We (the US) are the only civilized / industrial nation that doesn't take care of it populous! I have all sort of relation across the Northern border in Canada....some complain the system doesn't work (most in regard to having to wait for certain things / procedures) and others that feel it's a good system in regard to providing great care when it's truly needed.

The problem here (again in the US) is that unless your employer helps with the payment of the premium, a person can't afford to buy health insurance.

I will use my own situation as an example: I am a twenty year employee of a school district and do not qualify for the "group insurance". This, by the way is extremely convoluted between the classes of employees. But...At this point in time in my employ, I can have the privilege to work the entire month, take those earnings, add about $100 (out of empty pocket by this time) to those total earnings and be able to pay the health care perineum. Just to pay for the health care would leave me in the hole, month after month with no real income! Thus, I have NO health insurance! But I can pay for gas, electric, food and such! Something is MAJOR wrong here!

Soooo....In closing and again stepping down from my soapbox...I would much rather "wait" for something than have nothing!

[IRONROOSTER]

Unless you're one of the 47 million who has no insurance.  Or one of the millions more with poor insurance. 

While I have no idea what Sweden's health care system is like, ours is in serious need of replacement.  One of the really advanced "features" of our "system" is the way the uninsured get billed 2.5 to 10 times as much as those with insurance.

Paul

[Heartland Division CB&Q]

Magnus  Thanks for sharing your views about taxes, etc in Sweden. I'm afraid too many people everywhere have a notion that "the grass is greener on the other side."  I'm really glad we have the kind of health care we have here and would not want the government to mess it up.

Some have commented on flat tax and taxation in general.  I am thinking of how that impacts model railroading.  I believe model train manufacturing moved overseas due partly ( but siginficantly) to high taxes. Higher taxes on employers simply causes jobs to go elsewhere. I can see how a sales tax would be best in that regard. Income taxes ultimately become part of manufacturing costs for domestic products. Sales taxes would be applicable to both imported goods and domestic goods.

[ShadowNix]

Ahhh, thanks for clarifying that Magnus....

I thought you had a flat tax... LOL... again, thanks for the lively discussion....

Brian

[nw2]

Less government less taxes thats the way it should be.  Anyway I digress too, Its going to my daughters college fund.