Existential Issues w/Model Railroading

[PA&ERR]

Pretend you're paying tribute to the rail workers and miners by re-creating their era in your basement. Or be like me, I just think BNSF SD70MAC's pulling Bethgon Coalporters are just plain sexy!!

Dude, that just ain't right...on so many levels!

Rotor

What's not to love?

-George 

 

[IRONROOSTER]

...  You have lost the altruistic satisfaction that needs to be a part of our railroads—because that is where it starts.

I thought provoking post to be sure.  However, I don't understand your use of this word.  Please explain.

-Crandell

 

Altruistic?  My bad.  The word I am looking for escapes me—I intended “the higher level appreciation of the good, the ordered, the beautiful, the sublime…” but I cannot bring the word to mind.

Crews

Possibly aesthetic?

Enjoy

Paul 

[cregil]

...  You have lost the altruistic satisfaction that needs to be a part of our railroads—because that is where it starts.

I thought provoking post to be sure.  However, I don't understand your use of this word.  Please explain.

-Crandell

 

Altruistic?  My bad.  The word I am looking for escapes me—I intended “the higher level appreciation of the good, the ordered, the beautiful, the sublime…” but I cannot bring the word to mind.

Crews

[Rotorranch]

Pretend you're paying tribute to the rail workers and miners by re-creating their era in your basement. Or be like me, I just think BNSF SD70MAC's pulling Bethgon Coalporters are just plain sexy!!

Dude, that just ain't right...on so many levels!

Rotor

[ho modern modeler]

Pretend you're paying tribute to the rail workers and miners by re-creating their era in your basement. Or be like me, I just think BNSF SD70MAC's pulling Bethgon Coalporters are just plain sexy!!

[Dallas Model Works]

To build on Dave Vollmer's post:

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Actually what George Santayana said was: "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"; and:

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

Ha! Typical of Santayana to misquote me like that!

 

[Rotorranch]

Well, there's always that guy who modeled Michael Waltrip's Bristol car. . Couldn't you that with German equipment.

 

That commercial has me laughing hilariuously with tears it's so funny.

I saw that crash happen live...it wasn't pretty. And Mikey walked away!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVlj7F8OJCY

Sorry for the

Rotor

[MisterBeasley]

I think a lot of us model bygone eras because we long for the simpler times they represented, besides the attraction of steam locomotives over diesel.  During the transition era, we developed a vaccine for polio, but we also developed nuclear weapons.  The United States was still protected by the vast oceans on either side, but we didn't have computers or television.  And railroads were dirtier and louder, but they were the way to travel long distance.

You can look at the real world, or at your layout, with different lenses to see different things.  Coal mining was a hardship for many, but it meant a warm home in winter for many others.  The Chicago Stockyards may have been a cruel and unpleasant end for many animals, but they fed not only the people at home, but also the armed forces which had to crush an early form of tyranny in Europe.

"Tagging" wasn't common in the times my layout represents, so I don't have to make the call on that issue.  I don't show any street crime, either, but the autos are not all shiny and bright, and neither are the trains.  Sure, I make my layout just a bit more ideal than the real world was, but I try to look at today the same way.  I guess I'd just rather smile.

[Mailman56701]

Unfortunately many of us model too little and think <and post!> way too much.

   Some folks just like to hear themselves talk, whether literally or via the net.

[selector]

...  You have lost the altruistic satisfaction that needs to be a part of our railroads—because that is where it starts.

Don’t you think?

 

Crews 

I thought provoking post to be sure.  However, I don't understand your use of this word.  Please explain.

-Crandell

[Driline]

Unfortunately many of us model too little and think <and post!> way too much.

Aint that the truth!

Ok I'll stop now

[alco_fan]

Unfortunately many of us model too little and think <and post!> way too much.

[Driline]

Two writers describe a scene involving a city bus. 

One intends the bus as merely a means to get the character from one location to another, but the other uses it as an instrument to stress the character’s descent into poverty.  The first will mention the streets, the traffic, the amount of time the character had to sit and think, the second writes of the smells of the homeless in need of a bath, the marijuana being smoked at the bus stop, the over-ripe garbage cans, the sounds of the sirens and the muttering of the untreated bi-polar woman.

Both are real, but the details chosen are about the story being told.

I believe most of us tell of ourselves in our railroads.

Consider that nearly all of us began with bright, colorful and shiny trains running in a circle.  Not much there—power, grace, autonomy, perhaps; in our ability to control that graceful power remotely, but mostly it is what we imagined when watching the train circling.

As adults, our minds seek problem solving, purpose, aesthetics and such.  The first joy is not diminished, but the complexity satisfies.

No where, in this process, does “How can I use my railroad to represent the oppression of the masses” or “this hobby needs to be about tragedy” enter in to our development.

If you see a reefer passing on your layout and find yourself thinking, “That reefer is filled with peaches that contain only 4 percent of the nutritional value that they would have had four decades ago”  then you need a hobby, and your railroad is not it—you have lost the joy of the power and grace and autonomy.  You have lost the altruistic satisfaction that needs to be a part of our railroads—because that is where it starts.

Don’t you think?

 

Crews 

Wow...excellent reply. We have a New York Times "Best Seller" in the making.

Now if you could only get bearman to really comprehend what you just said, but alas me thinks not.

[shayfan84325]

I believe most of us tell of ourselves in our railroads.

Consider that nearly all of us began with bright, colorful and shiny trains running in a circle.  Not much there—power, grace, autonomy, perhaps; in our ability to control that graceful power remotely, but mostly it is what we imagined when watching the train circling.

As adults, our minds seek problem solving, purpose, aesthetics and such.  The first joy is not diminished, but the complexity satisfies.

No where, in this process, does “How can I use my railroad to represent the oppression of the masses” or “this hobby needs to be about tragedy” enter in to our development.

If you see a reefer passing on your layout and find yourself thinking, “That reefer is filled with peaches that contain only 4 percent of the nutritional value that they would have had four decades ago”  then you need a hobby, and your railroad is not it—you have lost the joy of the power and grace and autonomy.  You have lost the altruistic satisfaction that needs to be a part of our railroads—because that is where it starts.

Don’t you think?

 

Crews 

Way to go, Crews!  You got us back on topic and made an excellent reply.  I agree with you completely.

[cregil]

Two writers describe a scene involving a city bus. 

One intends the bus as merely a means to get the character from one location to another, but the other uses it as an instrument to stress the character’s descent into poverty.  The first will mention the streets, the traffic, the amount of time the character had to sit and think, the second writes of the smells of the homeless in need of a bath, the marijuana being smoked at the bus stop, the over-ripe garbage cans, the sounds of the sirens and the muttering of the untreated bi-polar woman.

Both are real, but the details chosen are about the story being told.

I believe most of us tell of ourselves in our railroads.

Consider that nearly all of us began with bright, colorful and shiny trains running in a circle.  Not much there—power, grace, autonomy, perhaps; in our ability to control that graceful power remotely, but mostly it is what we imagined when watching the train circling.

As adults, our minds seek problem solving, purpose, aesthetics and such.  The first joy is not diminished, but the complexity satisfies.

No where, in this process, does “How can I use my railroad to represent the oppression of the masses” or “this hobby needs to be about tragedy” enter in to our development.

If you see a reefer passing on your layout and find yourself thinking, “That reefer is filled with peaches that contain only 4 percent of the nutritional value that they would have had four decades ago”  then you need a hobby, and your railroad is not it—you have lost the joy of the power and grace and autonomy.  You have lost the altruistic satisfaction that needs to be a part of our railroads—because that is where it starts.

Don’t you think?

 

Crews 

[Trynn_Allen2]

If your gonna go, go happy

[Lillen]

But they died both Happy and inebriated

 

I couldn't have said it better my self!

 

Magnus

[Driline]

  Beer is actually quite nutritious and saved a lot of people from suffering from contaminated water born diseases 100+ years ago. 

And, beer is responsible for colorful Billboard Reefers.  Although banned by the government, well, it's my railroad and I vetoed that bill, so I've still got ice-bunker beer reefers running in the 1960's.  I've got a brewery, too, to honor my favorite beverage.

A few years back, I was at Plimoth Plantation, the historical reconstruction village in Massachusetts.  The staff are "actors," and each plays a documented citizen of the original settlement.  I sat down next to one stout fellow with a mug, and asked what he was drinking.  "Water," he said.  "Pure, clean water."  Apparantly, that was one of the big reasons that site was chosen for the town.  There was a large pure spring close by.  For the voyage over on the Mayflower, the hold of the ship was stocked with beer.  The alchohol kept the bacteria down, and the carbohydrates gave nutrition.  Even the children were given beer as part of their regular diet.

 

Beer have been called and I translate "liquid bread" here in Sweden if you go back in history. But I can not say it's a healthy way of living. But, people should remember that often, not always of course, the beer that was drank in earlier times often did not contain as much alcohol as modern beer. That of course varied from time to time and place to place. But in general.

Of course, people also died a lot earlier back then.

 

Magnus

But they died both Happy and inebriated

[Driline]

Glad to know about beer, but it is still...

 

...

Quit posting the stupid

You're

[Lillen]

  Beer is actually quite nutritious and saved a lot of people from suffering from contaminated water born diseases 100+ years ago. 

And, beer is responsible for colorful Billboard Reefers.  Although banned by the government, well, it's my railroad and I vetoed that bill, so I've still got ice-bunker beer reefers running in the 1960's.  I've got a brewery, too, to honor my favorite beverage.

A few years back, I was at Plimoth Plantation, the historical reconstruction village in Massachusetts.  The staff are "actors," and each plays a documented citizen of the original settlement.  I sat down next to one stout fellow with a mug, and asked what he was drinking.  "Water," he said.  "Pure, clean water."  Apparantly, that was one of the big reasons that site was chosen for the town.  There was a large pure spring close by.  For the voyage over on the Mayflower, the hold of the ship was stocked with beer.  The alchohol kept the bacteria down, and the carbohydrates gave nutrition.  Even the children were given beer as part of their regular diet.

 

Beer have been called and I translate "liquid bread" here in Sweden if you go back in history. But I can not say it's a healthy way of living. But, people should remember that often, not always of course, the beer that was drank in earlier times often did not contain as much alcohol as modern beer. That of course varied from time to time and place to place. But in general.

Of course, people also died a lot earlier back then.

 

Magnus

[Lillen]

Hey, don't worry about it.  I'm a grammar and punctuation geek, but I don't spell well at all.

And I'm a big student of military history...  That was a pretty bad error.  It was ripped off wikipedia in a hurry, and I guess I read "casualties" as "deaths."  Not the same.  For example, the American Civil War claimed 600,000 lives (2% of the nation's population at the time).  If you count casualties, you're talking well over a million.

 

I to love military history, especially the world wars and your civil war. I'm also quite fascinated by the wars that where fought when Sweden was one of the great powers of Europe back in the 17th century and early 18th.

Lately, as a part of my education as an historian I've grown fascinated by studies of lethal violence where I might say that I'm an expert, having written several academic papers on it.

 

 

Magnus

[MisterBeasley]

  Beer is actually quite nutritious and saved a lot of people from suffering from contaminated water born diseases 100+ years ago. 

And, beer is responsible for colorful Billboard Reefers.  Although banned by the government, well, it's my railroad and I vetoed that bill, so I've still got ice-bunker beer reefers running in the 1960's.  I've got a brewery, too, to honor my favorite beverage.

A few years back, I was at Plimoth Plantation, the historical reconstruction village in Massachusetts.  The staff are "actors," and each plays a documented citizen of the original settlement.  I sat down next to one stout fellow with a mug, and asked what he was drinking.  "Water," he said.  "Pure, clean water."  Apparantly, that was one of the big reasons that site was chosen for the town.  There was a large pure spring close by.  For the voyage over on the Mayflower, the hold of the ship was stocked with beer.  The alchohol kept the bacteria down, and the carbohydrates gave nutrition.  Even the children were given beer as part of their regular diet.

[shayfan84325]

Glad to know about beer, but it is still...

 

...

[loathar]

I'm getting fat because beer is good!  Food don't enter into it!

Lee 

Beer is actually quite nutritious and saved a lot of people from suffering from contaminated water born diseases 100+ years ago.

WOW! This thread really took a turn for the weird...

[Dave Vollmer]

Hey, don't worry about it.  I'm a grammar and punctuation geek, but I don't spell well at all.

And I'm a big student of military history...  That was a pretty bad error.  It was ripped off wikipedia in a hurry, and I guess I read "casualties" as "deaths."  Not the same.  For example, the American Civil War claimed 600,000 lives (2% of the nation's population at the time).  If you count casualties, you're talking well over a million.

[Lillen]

Oops on both counts.  Thanks for the correction!

 

I'm glad and relieved that you took it that way, the last thing I wanted was to offend you!

 

Magnus

[Dave Vollmer]

There was a big war that killed 40 million people between 1914 and 1918 and it started in Sarajevo, now part of Bosnia-Herzegovina when a Bosnian Serb assasinated the Austro-Hungarian Archduke Ferdidand.

Historical lessons indeed.

 

Hi Dave,

 

I just needed to correct this. 40 million people did not die during WWI, the dead is usually estimated between 13,5 and up to about 15 million or so(Not including civilians). Now, some people like to ad the effects of the war to what is know as the Spanish disease and ad their deaths as well but that did not occur during the time frame that you mentioned. It's also hard to justify it as a monocausal reason.

 

I guess that you are mistaking casualties for dead which is not the same as I'm sure that you know considering your background. Civilians are also very hard to estimate.

 

One last thing, the name is spelled Ferdinand but I would guess that it's just a typo.

 

Please do not take this the wrong way. I just read something that I thought was better corrected consider history lessons and all.

Oops on both counts.  Thanks for the correction!

[ben10ben]

Chip,

Thanks for the reference. I'm witholding conclusions, however, until I read the article for myself, which won't be until next week. I'm currently on spring break, and thus don't have access to any of the periodicals(including JAMA) which I normally would. 

In any case, however, I still very strongly feel that drugs have been one of the most largest benefits to modern medicine in the last 70 years. 

[SpaceMouse]

Vol 284, July 26, 2000

I don't have the 2005 follow-up article at hand, this one shows medical procedures in general at #3, and if you extrapolate the data, you'll find that at the time of the article, properly prescribed drugs ranked #4 when you take out doctor error.

I could probably find the 2005 article if you need  more convincing but not without a little work