To Weather

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

QUOTE: Originally posted by der5997

To "The Weathermaster" or anyone else out there who may know. I applied patel colours as powders to my box cars, and then Testors Dull Coat. When the DC had dried, there was little sing of thte pastel colours. What happened? Does this happen for you? What to do? BTW, the same thing happened with just plain dust and ashes. These are fine particles I'm dealing with. Thanks.

If pastel chalk dissapears after you dullcote, you must re-chalk the area again. And dullcote that again. You keep doing this until you build up enough to be seen when your done.

Cause one layer of chalk sealed with dullcote has very little effect on a model surface. [:(]

I have also read to put on the Dullcote BEFORE using the chalk which is supposed to give the surface more tooth for the chalk to grab onto. Personally, I just put on the chalk without the Dullcote spray. Enough seems to get rubbed in so that it doesn't (at least yet!) get rubbed off. At least this is my experience.

[Anonymous]

I started weathering boxcars and after two attempts with just pastels drybrushed I was happy and Dullcoated them. It looked fine after the coat so I think I used too much chalk dust [(-D]

[AggroJones]

I tried this once on a stock car, with fantastic results. It creates a "crazy George Sellios" type look.

First I make sure there is no dust, debris, or lint on the car. I dullcote the entire car from multiple angel 4 or 5 times. This will give it a more even distribution of talcom powder, which is part of the effect.

Then I take alot of flat charcoal black and raw umber water color in a mix of 4 parts rubbing alcohol to 1 part distilled water. (This way the colors dilute properly and the alcohol doesn't over bleach the dullcote.) I put the mix in a clean hair spray bottle and mist over the model. Use only enought to cover the surface, not so much it drips down.

Let each application of wash dry before you spray it again, so you can control the final look.

Drybru***he trucks mud or earth, and your done.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Casey Feedwater

This is one wall of a structure I've been working on recently. All of the weathering was done by drybrushing the boards and using a simple acrylic stain on the shingles.

Very nice! [:D]

[Casey Feedwater]

This is one wall of a structure I've been working on recently. All of the weathering was done by drybrushing the boards and using a simple acrylic stain on the shingles.

[Casey Feedwater]

There have been several mentions in this thread about using alcohol and Dullcote. Some folks on other forums have advised against using the two together because of the reaction that occurs between the alcohol and Dullcote. I don't think that's necessarily sound advice, because the resulting white "powder" appearance can be useful at times.

For example, it can be used to simulate hard water deposits (lime and scale) on equipment (or even plumbing) that would typically be used in regions having hard water.

Here are some examples of what I'm talking about. These are progress photos of a "backwoods" water tank car I built a couple of years ago. I used plain alcohol and Dullcote to create the appearance of hard water deposits.

[Budliner]

I get the sensation of a windy brease over the 2-10-10-2 oOOOOO OOOOOo

aggro is the man

:my first weathering attempts
B -

[AggroJones]

Another weathering technique I use is a wash containing distilled water, various pastel chalks, and matte medium. I utilize a wide sable bru***o stroke it up and around some steam locomtive boilers. The matte medium helps thin the water and supends the chalk in position.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

You're right... I was probably thinking of heavy weathering. What triggered my little rant was looking at the Franklin & South Manchester layout in the current MR magazine.

The layout is BREATHTAKING, and if I ever have 1/2 of 1% of the skill that George Sellios has, I will be a happy man indeed. But absolutely EVERYTHING in that layout looked like it was coated with grime. I just couldn't believe that there wasn't one clean building or automobile or anything in the towns he was modeling. I guess I felt that even when you are modeling the 30's & 40's, SOMETHING must have looked good back then. [:)]

Actually, most things looked fairly new during the depression. Paint was cheap, labor was cheaper, and there were whole armies of otherwise unemployed men doing nothing but street sweeping. The idea that the Depression looked "depressing" is modeler's license. The reality is that people during that time still took pride in appearances, and did everything they could to make things look nice. Remember, whitewash is nothing but lime and water (or turpentine), which is about as cheap a paint as you can get. Look for period photos of the 1930s in their proper context (was it taken to evoke a mood, or was it just a shot of the everyday?) and you'll soon see that the 1930s wasn't nearly as dirty and rundown as everyone thinks (I'll suggest that the 1970s looked worse).

When I think of teh F&SM or G&D, two layouts based on the Depression era, I think of great modeling and artictic skill, but pretty poor representation of reality.

[Roadtrp]

You're right... I was probably thinking of heavy weathering. What triggered my little rant was looking at the Franklin & South Manchester layout in the current MR magazine.

The layout is BREATHTAKING, and if I ever have 1/2 of 1% of the skill that George Sellios has, I will be a happy man indeed. But absolutely EVERYTHING in that layout looked like it was coated with grime. I just couldn't believe that there wasn't one clean building or automobile or anything in the towns he was modeling. I guess I felt that even when you are modeling the 30's & 40's, SOMETHING must have looked good back then. [:)]

[der5997]

Roadtrp: I think that perhaps you are taking weathering to mean "heavy weathering = grungy and beaten up looking all the time"
It's more, I think, a matter of a light dusting over everything. I remember reading somewhere, (Probably a Klambach book on weathering) about a layout where the basic earth tone used for the mud of the scenery had been sprayed lightly over everything, all the scenery, trees, buildings, etc. As you can imagine, it had to be a very light spray. However, judging by the pictures, the effect was amazing. The whole layout was tied together, and looked authentic. Nothing in the scenes was dirty however.
As to rolling stock, even if it never rained in your Empire, dust would be sucked up behind your trains. That leaves its mark, and if it does happen to rain, the runoff will show.
Weathering isn't on th etop of my list, as I'm still building benchwork, and laying track. I will be doing some eventually. I hope I won't be overdoing any.

[Anonymous]

My primary weathering uses a base coat of Dull-Cote followed by dilute washes of solvent based paints, dilute acrylics, dilute india ink. I only use pastels (chalk) on cars that will seldom leave the layout because I do not use a setting agent. To touch un-set pastel is to remove it or, worse, leave fingerprints. I do not really like pastels because I have never had much luck with them. True, the multiple layer approach does work with pastels, but it is hard for me to get the results I seek. The great thing with this hobby is that we all get to do it our way, and then broaden our abilities as we do it over.

Tom

[IRONROOSTER]

I personally am not a big fan of weathering (although the dust tends to build up after awhile, but I don't think that counts[:o)]). Some folks even go so far as to model litter on the layout. While I want the models to be accurate and finished appropriately I am not trying to have a photograph layout, more of a painting where things are as I remember or imagine them to be. I will admit that I have seen some beautiful weathering, just not my cup of tea.
Enjoy
Paul

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

Thanks snowey, but you didn't answer a darned thing.

Doesn't ANYONE have a comment to make on my questions?

(I would hate to think that no one answers because they all know I am right...)

[;)]

Questions? I read through your last post and it did contain some valid points, but I'm not sure what you were asking. [%-)]

Does everything have to be weathered? No, it's really up to you. It's your railroad and you can model it how you want to. Don't let anyone here tell you how to do it (but I personally will always take in advice because there's always something to learn).

Is there "a conceit that has become convention within the MR fraternity"? Maybe. There are all sorts of MR circles and schools of thought. But I would not let that influence you.

I agree that there are some areas (like suburbia) that isn't about making things look as old and dingy as possible in order to make it look realistic (except maybe for that one neighbor that never paints his house or mows his yard [swg]).

How things are weathered is really up to the artist. If you want to create a world were everything is washed once a week, then fine. Nothing wrong with that. It’s all about having fun.

[Roadtrp]

Edited because my post, intended to be kind of tongue-in-cheek, seemed more sarcastic and snotty when I re-read it.

-Sorry

[snowey]

BRADGEON ENTERPRISES makes a self-adhesive weathering powder,that doesn't require spraying.

[Roadtrp]

I know I am a rookie, and still in a stage where running my trains seems a lot more fun that working on weathering them.

But I do wonder if everything ALWAYS needs to be extensively weathered. I certainly agree with a good spray of Dullcote to take the shine off of plastic buildings, and some painting to give them a little more realism than the "three realistic colors" they were manufactured in.

However... I'm modeling a suburban setting, and I just don't see many "weathered" buildings in the 'burbs. If we ever do see one, we try to get the guy to move out of the neighborhood. [;)] Even the commercial and industrial buildings seem to be relatively free of weathering.

I also seem to remember that during the 70's and 80's, the period I am modeling, most Amtrak cars seemed pretty recently refurbished even if they weren't new. Even back during the 60's, when I rode some of the "classic" passenger trains, they always seemed to be freshly painted. They were the flagships of the railroad, and you wouldn't see a badly weathered passenger train then any more than you would see a badly weathered Boeing 757 aircraft today.

(I realize that freight trains are a whole different story, and will be much more likely to weather them once I get them -- right now all I have is a passenger train.)

There seems to be a feeling in MR that everything has to look dingy. I don't know if I buy that -- no matter WHAT era you are modeling. It seems many folks want to build a 30's or 40's setting with everything looking as it would look today. I gotta tell you though, back during the 30's a building built during the 20's probably still looked pretty darned nice. I truly wonder if the "everything looks dingy" method is really that realistic, or if it is just a conceit that has become convention within the MR fraternity.

Oh well, that is probably enough running on from a guy without a whole lot of experience. But my questions ARE very real, and I would be pleased to have others address them.

[:)]

[snowey]

[#ditto][#ditto][tup][tup][tup][yeah]

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by clinchvalley

I can't imagine not having everything (buildings, autos, people) weathered. It adds character to the whole layout.

My thoughts exactly. The layout wouldn't come to life without weathering. [^]

[ClinchValleySD40]

I can't imagine not having everything (buildings, autos, people) weathered. It adds character to the whole layout.

[Anonymous]

A light spray of dullcote will put a 'tooth' surface for the chalks to cling to, thus a seal coat won't blow the chalk away. Also I have had good results with colored pencils where I want a less diffuse effect. White works especially well where I want water scale buildup.

Randy

[snowey]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

QUOTE: Originally posted by der5997

To "The Weathermaster" or anyone else out there who may know. I applied patel colours as powders to my box cars, and then Testors Dull Coat. When the DC had dried, there was little sing of thte pastel colours. What happened? Does this happen for you? What to do? BTW, the same thing happened with just plain dust and ashes. These are fine particles I'm dealing with. Thanks.

If pastel chalk dissapears after you dullcote, you must re-chalk the area again. And dullcote that again. You keep doing this until you build up enough to be seen when your done.

Cause one layer of chalk sealed with dullcote has very little effect on a model surface. [:(]

I learned recently, from a guy on the Atlas forumWWW.ATLASRR.COM that if you spray Testors Dullcoat, Floquill "Figure-Flat" or whatever on the car or structure before you apply chalk dust or pastels, it won't dissapear and you don't have to spray it again to "seal" the weathering.

[Roadtrp]

Oklahoma...

Amen, brother. All of my trains go through the Train Wash at least once a week!!

[:P]

[Anonymous]

I will weather my frieght cars but not much as I like the look of clean cars and locos [:O]

[eng22]

My methods

1. Dullcote
2. Grime wash (India ink Alcohol) - Use the 99% rubbing alcohol mixture, it dries faster and does not give the car the white mold look. I first tried the 70% solution and it looked bad. In either case, if you do end up with the white mold look, another coat of DC will solve the problem.
3. An assortment of earthtone pastels and a brush
4. Dullcoat
5. More Pastels, more dullcoat

Someday when I have five hours to figure out how to post a picture on this sight I will do so. [:(!]

[mikebonellisr]

Krylon makes a workable spray matte fixitave that artist use on pastels and chalk drawings. Spray the first coat on VERY LIGHTLY to "set' the chalk. Do'nt hold the can too close.

[AggroJones]

A word of caution:

Be careful using an alcohol wash over old rolling stock, as it can remove lettering and decals. I learned this the hard way. A few years ago, I used a alcohol and ink mix in the first layer of weathing on an old, old Athearn flatcar. Almost all the lettering came off of one side before I realized there was a problem!

Use more water in the formula when alcohol is used to wash an old car. (made in the '70s and '80s)

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by der5997

To "The Weathermaster" or anyone else out there who may know. I applied patel colours as powders to my box cars, and then Testors Dull Coat. When the DC had dried, there was little sing of thte pastel colours. What happened? Does this happen for you? What to do? BTW, the same thing happened with just plain dust and ashes. These are fine particles I'm dealing with. Thanks.

If pastel chalk dissapears after you dullcote, you must re-chalk the area again. And dullcote that again. You keep doing this until you build up enough to be seen when your done.

Cause one layer of chalk sealed with dullcote has very little effect on a model surface. [:(]

[Anonymous]

i have found that those gel-pens work nicely for adding graphitti (especialy when the paint or plastic is matt) if your railroad runs through a city or other heavily industrialized area.