I need some advice... please...

[Favrefan04]

Thank you all for the advice that you have offered me. Just a quick update, I was able to get ahold of my LHS, and they were very helpful, and I have found that they have a very broad selection of everything. They were also very knowledgable, so I won't have to worry about some high school kid trying to answering my questions, and not knowing anything about it at all. I am feeling a lot more secure now. I will continue my research and learn as much as I can. I will continue to use this forum as one of those sources.

Thanks again to everybody for all of your held and advice.

-Gary

[ndbprr]

Twin coil uses a solenoid to throw the points at about the same speed that rockets leave earth orbit. Or to out it another way, if you blink you will miss the points move. Very strong action that usually results in good contact with the running rail for current carrying purposes. The slow motion devices like Tortise use a geared motor designed to stall when it reaches the other side and looks more prototypical. It also keeps cranking down on the points so they don't break contact. I think the second method is much preferable to the first at this point subject to cost consdierations. You can also manually throw turnouts with linkages and choke cables in you front facia.

[Favrefan04]

I appreciate the help and advice that you all have given me. I am going to try to find any LHS in my area from the net, and see if I can find out what they carry in regards to DCC. I have see that so many people advise to see what the LHS's carry and then go from there. I have tried to find some local clubs, but there was only one in my area, so I will see about contacting them as soon as I get back.

For the record, personal opinions and thoughts are valuable to me.

Thanks again for the advice, I do have one last question though about the turnouts. What is the advantage and disadvantage for both the "Twin Coil" and the "Stall Motor"? As I said before I am interested in moving to PC Automation, and I am curious if both can be operated with that format?

[AntonioFP45]

Hello NDBprr

[:O]No need to be skeptically negative. I have to humbly disagree with you. Opinions from fellow modelers can be very valuable, even though they tend to be biased.

In this case, modelers already using DCC systems often give a "consumer" satisfaction type of report on these threads as well as giving user tips that might not be in the manufacturer's book. I'm an ex-"hot rodder" and relied heavily on feedback that was similar to this thread, though back in the early 80s, it was in magazines and word of mouth!

"Newbies" need all the info they can get before making decisions. Info that's valuable to them will be used, what's not releveant can be "deleted". Biased and Unbiased opinions can indeed be very helpful.[^][:D]

Peace!

[ndbprr]

Well you are getting the typical, "use my system because I do and that makes it best" answers. Unfortunately I have found that a waste of time in my experience. The Digitrax system you mentioned is a fine system. So is NCE. I think you should go to a hobby shop that has multiple manufacturers and hold the controller in your hand for an extended period of time - say 15 minutes. Then you can decide which one has the best ergonomics for you and which is the most intuitive for you to operate. Top end systems are very competitive in their features. Who cares that one can address 9000 locomotives and one 9999? Nobody owns that many or would have a railroad where it was necesarry - not even the biggest club. The one feature I would look at would be radio control to free you from plugging in all the time. My opinion is it is worth the extra $40-50.

[Anonymous]

Hello.

As an avid fan and forthright supporter of DCC here are some additional things to consider for a DCC system.

Another feature regarding Digitrax systems is that Digitrax makes their system on a modular plug and play format. Meaning you can start with a Zephyr system now, and when you’re ready, upgrade into the Chief when your layout is ready. Another thing about the Zephyr is that it comes with most of the features found on Digitrax's larger system. And the features not available, that are on the Chief are essentially more efficient ways to do what you can do already on the Zephyr.

My recommendation for a full featured system set up that I used when I helped my ex-girlfriend build her layout was as follows.

1 Digitrax Zephyr starter set
2 Digitrax DT300 Throttles
2 Digitrax UP-5 Throttle Jack Panels.

Each DT300 Throttle is actually two throttles on one body. This set up will give you full independent control of 5 trains simultaneously.

As for switch machines, there are two types. The first type is Known as a twin coil and is the "electromagnet" type you referred to earlier, as well as the second type of switch machine known as a "Stall motor" which is a low voltage motor designed to move the point rails from side to side and stall when the throw is hard over.

There are several choices for powering these motors. The first is with a separate power system similar to conventional DC power fashion. The second is with DCC Accessory Decoders. I personally use the separate power system as it makes the wiring less complicated for me. If you use the Accessory Decoders, You will have to take into account the power demands of the switch machines. As a whole the Stall motor type will take more power because it is energized constantly, while the twin coil requires a short burst of power when activated. There is a third option and that is using a ground throw. A ground throw is a hand operated switch activating devises that looks an awful lot like a miniature switch stand next to a switch. I use them extensively on my industrial switching areas of my layout. While a bit over scale for HO, scale fidelity has to give way to human ergonomics to facilitate reliable operation. Ground Throws also have the advantage of eliminating all the wiring associated with using a switch machine to throw the switch.

Welcome back to the hobby, I wish your tour of duty in Afghanistan to be uneventful, and should it be eventful, do all of us grateful people here in the states a favor and kill some Al-Quieda Scum for us.

Sincerely,

James.

[Favrefan04]

I am thinking that I will want to have location detection abilities, for signals and the like. I am also looking to use PC automation. I am guessing that location detectors will be needed for the automation. Some of the things that I am thinking about doing, I might not do right away, but I also don't want to come back and have to rewire the whole track just to be able to do it later.

Is there any good reason not to go with a top end DCC right from the start, besides the money that it will cost? Like I said above, I am really leaning towards the Digitrax Chief. Now, with a 4x8 layout, being an oval, 2 passing sidings, a small 3 lane yard, and 2 spurs off the top and bottom on the right side. The 2 spurs are for a future expansion that I have planned for when I get more experience and space.

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Favrefan04

Ok, from what I have seen so far is that for each turnout, I will need a switching motor mounted under the layout. I take that to mean the old electromagnetic turnouts are not used anymore?

One additional question on wiring for DCC. Is it a recommendation to wire in several blocks and then run feeders to those blocks. Is this the same meathod that was used for DC, except for the absence of the DPDT switches used. I have been trying to figure out if blocks are still required, but so far all of my reading has be slightly vague on that.

Thank you Lupo, and Nevin for your help.

-Gary

Blocks are not necessary, but it depends on you track plan. If you have reversing
loops (where the track comes back onto itself, causing a short) you will need to
insulate the track. And use a reversing unit.
If not, another use for blocks is to prevent a short in one block from shutting down the entire layout. You can do this with more boosters ($$) or a power manager that divides the power from a single booster.
Regardless, you should run multiple feeders, about every four to six feet. Dave

[Anonymous]

Digitrax best thing ever happened to me

[Favrefan04]

Ok, from what I have seen so far is that for each turnout, I will need a switching motor mounted under the layout. I take that to mean the old electromagnetic turnouts are not used anymore?

One additional question on wiring for DCC. Is it a recommendation to wire in several blocks and then run feeders to those blocks. Is this the same meathod that was used for DC, except for the absence of the DPDT switches used. I have been trying to figure out if blocks are still required, but so far all of my reading has be slightly vague on that.

Thank you Lupo, and Nevin for your help.

-Gary

[NevinW]

If I was just starting, I would recommend going straight into DCC. Regular DC is pretty primitive. I think that one of the things that has held the hobby back has been the slowness in switching to electronic command control systems. The old timers sometimes are not to be that comfortable with computers and tend to stick to the older methods of control. However, I find that many beginners these days are very computer savvy and picking up DCC lingo and techmology just isn't that hard for them. Figuring out how a steam locomotive works is the hard part for them.

I would consider getting a Digitrax Zephyr as your first system however. It will not go totally obsolete, it will allow you to run your small layout and when you are ready for your big layout, down the road, the systems available will be that much farther advanced technologically. DCC is just like computers, the latest and greatest get passed by something else even better pretty fast. I would recommend checking out Tony's train Exchange, Loy's Toys and Litchfield Station. All three have been exceedingly helpful to me. Good luck and welcome to the hobby. Be safe!! - Nevin

[lupo]

[#welcome]Gary,

http://www.dcctrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm
maybe this is usefull

stay safe!

lupo

[Favrefan04]

Ok, like many people I have seen in here, I am new to the hobby. I actually had a train for a couple of years in my younger teens, but do to lack of money and space, I was forced to set it a side. All of my stuff was given to a younger cousin. I am wanting to get very serious into the hobby, I am 30, and am willing to spend some decent money on it. I even have to support and interest of my Fiance as well, so that is a plus. Now, let me get to my problem.

I am looking to go straight to DCC, and I am seriously considering Digitrax Super Chief. Does anybody have any reasons why this is not my best option, price, features, ease of operation, etc.

My initial layout, I am thinking that I will keep very simple just so that I can develop my abilities within MRR. I am however looking to work my way into Computer Automation. I am going to go with HO, and I am just planning on having a handful of turnouts with maybe a couple of Mainline Locos and maybe a Yard Loco for some practice in staging. I am interested in being able to operate the turnouts through the DCC. Now for my real question. Does anybody have a suggested list of items that I would need to get this all set up. From what I can think of right now; A DCC, decoders for all Locos used, stationary decoders, and all required wiring. I am sure that there are a few things that I am missing, and that is what I am trying to figure out so that I am not walking in blind to the LHS and getting ripped off buying a lot of stuff that I don't actually need. I haven't built any kind of rapport with them yet, do to the fact that I am currently stationed in Afghanistan for the Army. I should be back in the states in about a month and a half, and that is when I plan on starting.

Thanks for the help in advance.

-Gary