There were gas engine units in the 1920's and diesels early in the 1930's but they were mostly custom orders like the M-10000 and the Pioneer Zephyrs. The FT and SW1 demonstrators and subsequent delivered models in 1939-40 mark the start of the transition era, however I would agree that it really begins post WW2, when the RRs needed to replace their steam fleets that became worn out due to the astounding wartime traffic they pulled. Not immediatley, as it still took a while for the maunfacturers (except EDM) to retool from wartime production. Most steam was well on the way to being long gone by 1958, and was truely gone by 1960. So a 20 year "transition era" from say, 1948 to 1958 would be a good frame of reference.
Just keep in mind by the end of the transition era no railroads were spending anymore than was needed to keep the steam locos rolling, so most looked dirty and beat up by the time they were retired.
Have fun with your trains
The first box cab diesel switchers were first used in the 1920s and a few shortlines ran steam into the early 1960s. The 1950s was the decade in which steam gave way to diesel as the dominant form of motive power. Active steam far outnumbered diesel at the start of the decade but by the end of the decade, steam was all but gone. Obviously, at some point in that decade, steam and diesel would have had an equilibrium.
As a side note, the Ohio Central railroad still has an active steam roster, moster CP cast offs and these still occasionally see duty on revenue freight runs.
steinjr wrote:the transition era in the US. .... In some places transition away from steam came later than for the US class 1 railroads. Take Norway - ... In England ... In the east block countries like Russia or Poland ...- China kept ....
Take Norway - ... In England ... In the east block countries like Russia or Poland ...- China kept ....
scottychaos wrote: For the majority of American railroads, I would say the transition era was 1945-1955. Diesels began to make inroads before WWII, but the war shut down most diesel production, and steam still reigned supreme during the war years..so WWII was still more "steam era" than "diesel era"..then, right after the war (1945) diesels took over quickly, and by 1955 it was all over for steam, with a few steam stragglers lasting into the late 50's.. So I would call the transition era 1945-1955, or 1945-1960. Scot
For the majority of American railroads, I would say the transition era was 1945-1955.
Diesels began to make inroads before WWII, but the war shut down most diesel production, and steam still reigned supreme during the war years..so WWII was still more "steam era" than "diesel era"..then, right after the war (1945) diesels took over quickly, and by 1955 it was all over for steam, with a few steam stragglers lasting into the late 50's..
So I would call the transition era 1945-1955, or 1945-1960.
Scot
It's hard to say on that, certainly without the limitations of the Depression and the then the war, most railroads would have been buying more diesels earlier than they did. However even after the FT came along in 1939-40, many railroads were not convinced that diesels were really suitable for more than switching and streamlined passenger trains. The Missabe's big 2-8-8-4's were built during that time, I've never heard anything about them wanting diesels instead. The New York Central and ALCO designed and built their 4-8-4 Niagras during the war, from what I've read they would have done that even if diesels had been available.
It's true that a lot of equipment was taken out of storage and used again during the war, but a lot of that had to do with the sudden increase in tonnage being hauled. During the Depression, railroads had a surplus of equipment because business was so bad, so they put their older stuff away and only used their newest engines and cars - hey, if you're still paying off an engine, you want it out there earning money, not sitting on a siding!!
It was really after the war that the boom in road diesels for freight came, however some roads like the Missabe that had newer steam chose to keep using it, plus in their case US Steel chose to send steam from other US Steel-owned railroads to the Missabe so they could dieselize the other railroads. The Missabe didn't own a road diesel until 1955, and used Yellowstones on mainline trains until June 1960. But after 1955 railroads like the Missabe and N&W were the exceptions, most railroads were buying diesels as quickly as they could.
There really was no 'Road Freight' diesel until the FT in 1939. WWII was the proving ground for freight diesels, and most railroads were sold on them at that point. The massive orders for 'F' units after WWII is the proof of that. The American railroads did pull everything off of the dead lines in an effort to assist the war effort. But due to the depression, not much new steam was purchased as a lot of existing steam was stored due to the downturn in business. Until the 'FT', most railroads looked at diesels as power for fancy new streamliners.
The Korean War did increase traffic, but nothing like the all out effort to win WWII. Some consumer goods were affected by materials shortages(model railroading for one). But nothing like the 'ration coupons' of WWII for example. Copper and aluminum were in short supply at times in the early 50's.
Diesel locomotive production was controlled during WWII by the War Production Board(WPB). From late 1942 through 1944 diesel locomotive production was basically as follows:
Much of the FT production went to the AT&SF(320 units) as they had an important through route to Southern California and lot's of 'bad water' districts that would have meant solid trains of water for the steam engines. Some railroads like the GN had to wait for their early FT orders until 1944 when material shortages got better. Existing orders for passenger locomotives were allowed in 1942, but were then cancelled. The WPB action in WWII made sense in an effort to balance production resources, but many felt it gave EMD an unfair advantage after the war as many railroads had tasted the EMD product and purchased mainly EMD products after that.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I was under the impression that steam locomotives were on the way to been phased out prior to WWII, and diesels were on the way in. Due to WWII when rail traffic increased considerably, steam locos were pulled out of retirement, or kept in service. Due to the war effort no new diesels would have been produced. Not sure when production of diesel locomotives started up again after WWII.
Did the Korean war affect production of diesel locomotives which would have allowed steam just a little longer than intended? I know the automotive industry was affected by the Korean war although vehicles were still produced.
EMD SD9 first came from the factory in Jan. 1954, GP9 also that same year.
So, I think they happily go together with almost all late steam locos.
The New Haven received it first Alco DL-109 diesels in December, 1941, just before Pearl Harbor. They were used in passenger service from New Haven to Boston in the day time and freight service from Maybrook, NY to Cedar Hill and also from Cedar Hill to Boston at night all during WWII.
My transition era has been broadened from 1936 to 1956. Thr ornate Branford station burned down in 1938, so I had to include that, and I moved from New Haven at the end of 1956, so I did not witness the soon to be demise of the New Haven Railroad. That is 20 years of the most interesting operations on the New Haven.
The 'Transition Era' is really a moving target. The first real mainline diesel passenger engines were the EA(B&O) and the E1(AT&SF), built in 1937. The first standard production version(E6) was built starting in 1939. Diesel road freighters(FT) were first built in 1939 and most of the production was in the early 40's. The FT proved that diesels could be used in road freight service and dieselization moved rapidly in the late 40's/early 50's.
Steam was built up to about 1950, and then most production of steam engines ceased. As others have mentioned, that 'transition era' can be different for each railroad. Most railroads replaced steam with diesels on a yearly basis, and when there was enough diesels - the steamers went o the scrap heap. A lot of Midwestern 'Granger' roads kept their best/biggest steam in reserve for the 'grain rush' in late summer. The Rock Island, Burlington, & Milwaukee Road were good examples. 1957 was one of the last 'summer of steam' events for these railroads. A recession in 1958 caused a downturn in business, and there no real need to pull steam out of 'stored servicable' condition. On some railroads like the CGW, the conversion happened very fast around 1950. Others like the DW&P ran steam until an almost overnight dieselization in 1957 with the delivery of RS11's. The IC, NKP, DM&IR, GTW, and UP ran steam quite late. The DM&IR 'Yellowstones' ran until 1962, IIRC.
My take for a 'general' time frame is '1939-1959'. On my model railroad(set in the late 50's) the Milwaukee Road still has some steam running alongside the new GP9's(hey, it's my layout).
Jim Bernier
Hi!
As someone posted earlier, the transition era is a moving target - depending on the railroad in question. Diesels displaced steam beginning in the late '30s, and continued to do so into the late '50s (early '60s in isolated cases).
As a modeler of the ATSF & IC, I have to use "modelers license" to get both steam & first generation diesels running in my late '50s layout. The only hard and fast rule I use is that no prototype (car/loco/structure) can be dated post 1959. Now that might generate some negativity with some MRs, but it sure works for me!
I try to remember that this is a HOBBY, and we need to ENJOY !!!!!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I'm currently modelling 2 distinct eras - mid 30s and mid 50s - both of which I consider to be within the transition era, when steam and diesel could be seen together. Whilst both in the same era, the infrastructure can look decidedly different.
Early
late
Happy modelling,
Jon
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Texas Zepher wrote: Butlerhawk wrote:What years encompass the transition era? I trying to keep my layout in the 1950s - do both steam and diesel fit this time?Yes, of course steam and diesel fit this time - that is why it is called the transition era. As the others have said the exact time period depends on the specific railroad. BUT when I am talking in general terms ... Although the diesel-electric locomotive as we know it today was introduced in the mid 1930s, it took a while for them to be considered a serious alternate. I consider the transition era to begin in 1938 with the introduction of the factory production EMD E unit. It was at this point the diesel-electric stepped out of switching service and custom ordered units (like the Yankee Flyer, Zephyrs, M-10000, etc), and into mainline service. The era ended in 1955 when most services on most railroads were converted to diesel so it was uncommon to see the two side by side anymore. Obviously mainline steam lasted a few more years on a few railroads. So for me the transition era was 1938-1955.For short hand - one could say the transition era was from 1940-1960. A more encompasing and exact answer could be 1935-1960(March) that would include the very earliest practical diesels and the very last class 1 steam.
Butlerhawk wrote:What years encompass the transition era? I trying to keep my layout in the 1950s - do both steam and diesel fit this time?
For short hand - one could say the transition era was from 1940-1960. A more encompasing and exact answer could be 1935-1960(March) that would include the very earliest practical diesels and the very last class 1 steam.
Excellent summary of the transition era in the US. But just to complement the picture - it all depends on what prototype railroad you base your model on. In some places transition away from steam came later than for the US class 1 railroads.
Take Norway - its transition era started in 1954 - when it was decided to modernize and do away with the steam engines. Transition lasted until 1970, when the last steam engines were taken out of normal service.
In England the steam engines were kept on post-war. By around 1960 replacement was under way, and by 1968 or so steam engines were no longer used outside industry switching.
In the east block countries like Russia or Poland some steam continued into the 1980s or so.
And of course - China kept steam engines at work until very recently.
But no matter how you count - the early 1950s would indeed count as transition era for pretty all the class 1 US railroads.
Butlerhawk - what railroad/location are you modelling ?
Smile, Stein
Like all such transitions, there are no clean dates. Diesels are generally considered to have first appeared commercially in the 1920's as switchers - http://www.cnwhs.org/ageir/ageir.html (MDC had a model of the boxcab, sadly this appears to have been dropped by the new owners). Some road units appeared in the late 30's. WWII happened and delayed the transition. After WWII the railroads began changing from steam to diesels. Some did it early, some late. By 1960 the major roads had converted most or all of their locomotives. Some small roads hung on for awhile - eventually they folded or converted.
The dates 1946 to 1960 are usually what people mean by the transition era.
Enjoy
Paul
Maybe the real issue should be "transition era on the ________ railroad." Some railroads had no steam by 1950. Many, and perhaps most, had steam to about 1955. A few had steam to 1959. A couple until 1960.
As a practical matter, in terms not just of power but of freightcars, facilities, and general appearance of the physical plant, I'd say the transition era was 1948-1958. But each railroad had its own transition era.
Plus, having steam is not the same as steam in every service: freight, passenger, local, yard switching. The last CB&Q steam was, I think, power held in reserve for the fall grain or sugar beet rush. I think the last such steam was retired in 1958 or so but in reality by then the Q was fully dieselized.
Then there were the somewhat oddball industrial, logging, or steel mill operations, many of them in the south, that had steam into the 1960s. I think the final Burlington Northern (!) steam engine was in tie plant service about 1971 or so. And Northwestern Steel & Wire had 0-8-0s in steel plant service until about 1980-81!
Dave Nelson.
I define "transition era" as the period when railroads operated both steam and diesel locomotives. So, as far as your layout is concerned, it is the period in which the prototype you emulate (or your fictional railroad is imagined to have) operated these locomotives concurrently. For the most part, I consider the transition period to be generally sometime between 1940 and 1960. My impression is that railroads started dieselizing switchers, then passenger locomotives, then freight locomotives. Railroads had an incentive to dieselize areas with poor-quality/quantity water areas (as in the Southwest desert) and in areas with stringent (for then) air pollution standards. Also, as it was expensive to maintain dual services for both types of locomotives at one time, railroads had an incentive to completely dieselize particular districts as soon as practical rather than waiting to dieselize the entire railroad at the same date.
Mark
Yes, and perhaps even some electric...although I cannot tell you for sure.
The answer must have an "official" version of sorts someplace (as claimed by someone or other), but it kind of depends on the road in question. The very first mainline diesel was used in the 40's if I recall correctly (someone help me). Was that the leading edge of the transition era, or was it in the early 40's until 1959 when the last steamers in Class 1 revenue service were let go to the scrapper? That's quite a spread, but the CPR retired its last steamers in 1959 last I heard. Seems to me that was about the time that the Norfolk & Western did the same.
To answer more directly, even the stalwart N&W had diesels by the mid-50's (ish). Diesels were common by the late 40's.