What is wrong, if anything with the model railroad hobby

[the-big-blow]

What are your fears, gripes with Model Railroading as a hobby. I talked with alot of modelers and just want to get other hobbyists opinions.

[Anonymous]

I wish we could all enjoy the hobby in whatever manner that brings us joy--and not have our ideas trampled by others. I don't argue with those who feel prototypical operations are the only way to operate a model railroad; conversely I find it silly that someone would want to criticize the methods I employ to run my own. Live and let live, in other words. That aside, I think the hobby as a whole is great. [^]

[AggroJones]

Prices are getting off the hook! They need to bring it down some, to keep the non-rich people in the hobby. (some of you are rich by my standard, but don't know it.) Locomotive prices are getting ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

PRICE......Geting too expensive. It discourages new comers and prevents current modelers from buying alot of the newer products. Look at the price of engines that havent changed in years. No upgrades or improvements but the price goes up.

[BRAKIE]

Before April 1998 I was really into the correct modeling thing.After April 1998 I had a different outlook on the hobby and life its self.Now,I just enjoy the hobby and model good enough/close enough and no longer concern myself with petty detail discrepancies within reason of course.
My biggest fear is that the prices will continue to sky rocket and become a hobby for the rich and not so famous and eventually kill off the hobby for many if not the hobby its self over time.
One of my biggest gripes is the ultra thin hand rails that break if you sneeze to hard and those that come bent and out of shape from the manufacturers.There has to be a way to make a tougher scale hand rail.The hand rail issue ranks right next to those hobbyist that believe their way is the only way to enjoy the hobby and if you model differently from them you are not a real modeler but merely playing with your trains.."Horse hockey" as Col.Sherman T. Potter would say.You see there are many avenues to enjoy this hobby and one must choose his/her own standards that pleases them in the pursuit of this hobby.
Enough said.[:D]

[Anonymous]

We are definately getting a better product than five years ago. Does the quality justify the jump in price. probably not. But considering how much people are willing to spend on luxury items this will dictate what we spend. Are hockey, baseball or football tickets worth their value. Only if you want to see someone play ball or chase a round peice of rubber around the ice. Unfortunately unless we are willing to change our value system and pay people what they are truly worth and not what the market is willing to pay them we will continue to pay high prices. Too bad we don't pay those who really earn their keep what there worth. People like Paramedics, police officers and so forth.

[Anonymous]

I truly don't have any gripes. I do feel the hobby is going through some changes at this time. Some of the changes I'm not doing back flips over. However, change is one of the only certainties in life!

[Hawks05]

prices for sure.

i know there are a few of us youngens around who are on fixed incomes be it because of not having jobs or having cars to pay for and other stuff. i know that having to pay for a car and gas and pretty much everything but clothes its hard to find the spare change to buy any train stuff. i'm glad shows aren't every weekend cause i'd be broke. i usually take like $100-$120 per show. if the price of locomotives and some kits would go down i'd be really happy.

[Anonymous]

I have been enjoying model railroading for 40 years from a 4x8 sheet of plywood in my bedroom to now half of my basement. i have seen alot of good things come about and alot come and go, but I think with the costs of the hobby these days is getting t owhere they are pricing themselves out of the hobby. I realize costs go up but not many can afford this hobby anymore. And now you have the train simulators that left you enjoy the hobby from a soft chair and not near the cost or the required space needed. Maybe the manufactures need to look at pricing on the products.


WMRY

[IRONROOSTER]

There is change in the hobby toward highly accurate, detailed kits and ready to run. These cost more to produce. What isn't there are the parts and scratch building articles for making your own and maybe not having quite so much detail. I'm not advocating sloppiness here, but a more relaxed approach. As someone reported in another post, Walthers is moving away from kits to rtr. And many of the freight car kits in HO are now in the $20-30 range. S scale, which I model in, is mostly RTR with a few kits. On the other hand, other hobbies are getting more expensive as well. I've given up golf since the greens fees around here are $37 and up for 18 holes on the weekend.
Enjoy
Paul

[AntonioFP45]

[^]The quality of Model Railroad products has improved tremendously in just the past 10 years, but I've noticed the availability of REPAIR/REPLACEMENT PARTS has shrunk considerably![V]

Back in 1995 I remember that my LHS was "overflowing" with locomotive and rolling stock replacement parts from Athearn, Atlas, and other manufacturers. I regret that I took it for granted and didn't load up on more underframes, powered trucks, brakes parts, etc. It used to be so easy to take a "junker locomotive" like an old Tyco or LifeLIke and with parts alone "Kitbash" and turn it into a unit that could perform as well as an ATLAS! [8D] A friend of mine did this with a Tyco GP20, all with parts from my LHS back in the 90s!

Currently my LHS's once "jammed pack" parts carousel is laughable.[(-D] The manager is sincere and showed me that he's ordered parts on numerous occasions, but Athearn and other manufacturers have scaled back.

To be fair, Athearn responded to an email I sent and stated that they have no intentions of getting out of the parts business. I look at the low quantities of parts at dealers and wonder.

[MAbruce]

1. Price.
2. Price.
3. Those who think we're not paying too much and we should just stop our price whining and be thankful for what we have. These are usually the same people who think Wal-Mart is evil.

[Anonymous]

Do you all feel the prices are higher than inflation? Or, are they higher because of the added detail and that they are RTR? The short runs by manufacturer's are due to the Yuppy war cry of "No Inventory". Keep them yammering for more!

Wallmart IS EVIL!

[liquidcross]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd have to say price. I'm just starting to get into the hobby, and the investment required is rather daunting. That's why I'm spending as much time as I can researching everything about the hobby before I shell out any hard-earned dollars.

[ndbprr]

Price is the number one problem but what causes it? In my opinion we do. When a manufacturer say's limited run everybody runs right out and buys it even before it is built. This, "gotta have it today" mentality is ruining the hobby in my opinion. I don't buy anything I haven't seen or handled first and it just adds to the problem of price by playing that game.

[CNJ831]

Deschane asks if higher prices are inflation related or because of greater detail and being RTR. Likewise, are short runs because mfg.s don't want inventory and want buyers to scamble to get each new model.

While there is no question that detail and running characteristics have decidely improved with the latest models, over the past ten years rising prices have far outstripped inflation and, in fact, have been far greater than for any 20 year interval in the hobby's past. I place much of the blame on over-pricing to the fact that mfg.s see the market as dwindling in the near future and are making an effort to get the maximum of profits out of it while there is still a significant percentage of modelers who will pay almost any price demanded of them. This philosophy also dovetails with limited runs and no inventory. Watch out, because brass models went down this very same path over the years and are now beyond the reach of better than 95% of all hobbyists.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

Price or cost. Yes quality has increased but not always. You still have the case of a $5.00 gondola that is now being put together by a chinese woman and is now selling for $12.95. Same car no difference worth the extra $8. $20 dollar box cars are way to much even if they are beautiful. I think modelers want things they can model themselves not premade stuff others have done. My other gripe is what seems to be a very small circle of people MR displays in their magazine. Every month you see the mega layout that is just beautiful but in no way reflects the majority of hobbiest. It's kind of like we first visited so in so's tipahitchie southern back in 1986 so let's see what it looks like now. Oh I added a few buildings. It's seems more like a garden social club than a magazine about a hobby.

RMax

[Roadtrp]

Over the long term, I don’t know that the hobby has really gotten that much more expensive. One of my greatest Christmases was when I was about 12 (1960) and received a 4-car set of Lionel 027 streamliner passenger cars. Back then the set cost $40, which was for me a VERY MAJOR Christmas present.

I just checked the Lionel website, and today a similar 4-pack of streamliner cars goes for $199.99, so the price has gone up about 500%.

That seems like a lot until you look at some other things:

Gas then: .25 per gallon
Gas now: 1.60 per gallon
Increase: 640%

New car then (low priced): 2,000
New car now (low priced): 17,000
Increase: 850%

New house then (average): 20,000
New house now (average): 200,000
Increase: 1000%

So when you look at the price increases for other common products over that time, the price increase in train equipment doesn’t seem so bad. I’m not saying train equipment isn’t expensive, because I think it is. But quality train equipment has ALWAYS been expensive.

[vsmith]

Price

Dimishing of kitbashing parts

Bad Attitudes towards "newbies" and "lone wolfs"

Its no secret prices have gone up, but so has quality and selection. But this can eventually leed to the hobby pricing itself out of business. We seam to be heading towards a 2 tier hobby. Cheap "christmas tree" type trainsets for beginers, and pricey higher end stuff that will scare off newcomers. If all they can afford is the cheap stuff that runs poorly and doesnt last long they will become dissillusioned and quit the hobby with some bad feelings. We need to maintain that middle ground (i.e. Athearn BlueBox)

Kitbashing is sacriment to this hobby, we all end up doing it to one extent or another. but the RTR trend could eventually cripple many hobbiest by discouraging modeling skills. Lack of parts is slowly becoming a real issue, in all scales.

Bad attitudes have ALWAYS been a problem in this hobby, I've experienced it as had many others. I refer to the various accounts about "rivet counters" on this forum.

[slotracer]

The main reason I switched from trains to slotcars several years ago was that we, like many in society today, tend to move from time to time, and the prospect of tearing down, then latter building another layout to be torn down too soon grew expensive and frustrating. Many homes being built today do not have basements which can be a factor. Cost too I agree can be a deterrant. I think the mnfgs give what the most market demands, personally, I appreciate the craftsmanship of scratch and kitbash work, but people have less spare time and the demand for RTR increases due to that.
Inspiration is another I believe. I know there are plenty of folks who are into modern era stuff, but it is a whole lot less inspiring than what railroads were 50 or even 25 years ago. Gone is the day when the general public was accutely aware of, and even had the fabric of their lives intertwined with the railroad. Additonally, the character and diversity in railroading is nowhere near what it once was.
I was a lone wolf before I hung up the hobby, mainly because there are so many "Strange" people into the hobby. Not all, but my wife noticed the high percentage of oddballs on fan trips, meetings of clubs etc and frequently wondered what I got myself into and prayed I was not destined to become a weirdo. Some hobys are that way, old car buffs tend to be "normal" while the antique truck crowd I observed tended on the wierd side. I was a memeber of a warplane museum, great bunch but the military history and antique military vehicle crowd that showed up at our airshow tended to be freakish.

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr

Price is the number one problem but what causes it? In my opinion we do. When a manufacturer say's limited run everybody runs right out and buys it even before it is built. This, "gotta have it today" mentality is ruining the hobby in my opinion. I don't buy anything I haven't seen or handled first and it just adds to the problem of price by playing that game.

I agree that "we" as modelers are the cause, because there are simply enough of us willing to pay the prices that are set. Hey, if you made something that you found enough people would pay a hefty price for; wouldn’t you keep rising the price until you reach the maximum point that the market would bear? That’s just common business sense, so we really can’t blame the companies involved for doing something we would likely do: Maximize revenue & profit.

As to why “we” modelers seem willing to tolerate increasing prices, I’m not sure. It’s likely a combination of things. The "gotta have it today" reason is certainly a good theory. Maybe it’s truly a rich person’s hobby, and there are many who just don’t care about the price because money is not an issue?

I admit there have been times (especially recently) when I’ve seen an N-scale freight car exceeding $20 and asked myself: “How much can a small piece of plastic really cost to make anyway?” Sure, there are likely complex manufacturing processes involved that add to the cost, but as most of these are made overseas with cheap labor, I wonder how much of high MSRP is really the result of cost? Maybe there too many people in the distributor channel who cause a $5 car to balloon to $30?

The theories can go on and on. But as I stated before, so long as enough people are willing to pay the prices, it really doesn’t matter how the prices get to where they are.

[Anonymous]

Price. $700.00 for a Lionel Gas Turbine!? And in HO, too!? It's VERY ridiculous and id getting out of hand. A locomotive that costs $300.00 looks to me worth no more than $225.00. Yup, price is a diffenent issue, and yes, WALMART IS EVIL!!!!!!

[AggroJones]

The general summation is that price is the hobby's largest problem.

I need Walmart, but they still are evil!

[the-big-blow]

Like i said its better to buy an MTH "O" scale if you want a $700 Gas Turbine.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Slotracer, there are a lot of odd characters in this hobby. Every show I go to, there are always "hygenically challenged" creatures. Most frequently, there are those unfortunates that have nothing else going for them in their lives, so that they have to immerse themselves in the minutiae of the hobby. Sometimes, they can be very contentious. Pathetic losers.....

Then again, I am there, too...........

Also, price is a factor. Remember though, the manufacturers need to make a profit, and also need to make enough to invest in research and development. We are getting better products, but we are paying more for them. Considering that there is a limited market in the hobby, we are not doing too bad either price wise or product wise.

All I want are more HO American autos from 1960-85.

[Anonymous]

Yes Like Slotracer and ejbulman I see the weirdos at the shows etc...One of my other hobbies is Amateur Radio (That's my old call sign I'm using for my username, my current call is W4IK) and man you see the same type of "creatures" at the hamfests(Amateur Radio swapmeets). I get the same looks/concerns from my wife. I just keep telling myself that for every "strange" person there's got to be ten 'normal" people. And hey individuality is what makes the world go round, right?

BTW Amateur Radio is going through some of the same issues.
i.e. Morse Code users vs non Morse Code users - akin to the prototype vs freelancers.
Using manufactured radios vs scratchbuilt radios(Homebrew in Amateur Radio parlance)...Sound familiar??
Aging of the population...bemoaning the lack of newcomers,etc.

It still does seem that price is the number one concern for model railroading.
Anyway this thread got me thinking...and I don't mean to hijack the thread but.....I wonder if any hobby has ever priced itself out of existence?

Greg

[Anonymous]

hey gang, i usually dont comment on the forums, i just read, but i have to agree about the priceing of the hobby. its really getting ridiculous. i dont make a lot of money, plus im married and have children. to me model railroading is a stress reliver. i have loved it ever since i was 6 years old, and im now 35. seems like the companies are not considering the not so wealthy when it comes to priceing. just like the new Athearn RTR line, their just a glorified box kit. i tested a 80$ RTR against the same loco in the traditional (do it your self box) at my local hobby shop just yesterday. the results.......... the RTR was just as noisy and rattley as the un assembled kit. the weights of the two locos were the same also, light. used to be that Athearn un-assembled kits were the way to go for the hobbiest that couldnt afford the Kato's AND Protos, now since the sale of Athearn, it seems as if the price is going up, and the quality the same. Now, dont get me wrong, 95% of my rolling stock and loco's are Athearn, i think highly of them, but they need to remember us "not so fortunate modellers" that still dream of building their own miniture empires.

steve[:(]

[the-big-blow]

I have noticed that in these tough economic times that things are not just flying off the shelves. I agree we are blessed with great quality products but feel the chinese war machine is making it very hard for all of us to keep up(and besides are very rarely on time) . I wish manufactures would just turn it down a notch or too. Most of my intrest revolves around collecting locomotives, especially hard to find brass items with emphasis on UP. There IS a point where I draw the line on price, and will not purchase a new brass locomotive at any cost. $750 bucks for loco they've gotta be mad( A plain SD40-2!! its not like its a GAS Turbine or something). Some of these dealers don't offer layaway on any of these items(and if they do they want to charge me a Finance fee) . I bought a great deal of models in the early 90's when they were about half the price of todays. Of course I didn't make as much money as I do now. I am single without a family so if I want it I just spend money. I know alot of modelers that have become so obsessed with having it or getting it that it seems they throw reason aside.

[Anonymous]

I agree. Price is my biggest concern. I think it has gotten a little carried away with itself. I also feel that lack of parts is starting to become a big problem. I have several kitbash projects stalled becasue of lack of parts. (Also no LHS also is a problem) Due to my location I have to alot of mail order. As such it is very big pain in the butt when what I need is out of stock.

Another problem I have is the arrogence that alot of the so called "Rivet Counters" (i.e. Tony Keoster) are displaying today. Its like if your not modeling a prototype, why are you here? While I view my self as a prototype oriented modeler, I am by no means so caught up with it that it has become the dominate factor in my modeling. One of my many railraods I model is a Proto-Freelance, and another one I am considering is a projection off off the old 1970's Tyco "Chattanooga" roadname. Any of you who finds that disturbing, I truely feel sorry for you.

James

[CBQ_Guy]

Prices, advance reservations, and limited runs are at the top of my "female dog List".