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Scratchbuilding articulated locos in N-scale...insane?

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  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Ashtabula, Ohio
  • 158 posts
Scratchbuilding articulated locos in N-scale...insane?
Posted by 2-8-8-0 on Monday, February 4, 2008 10:02 PM

Hello everyone. Ive been an avid model railroader for several years (much more "modelling" than "railroading" going on, thanks to my small apartment) and have decided on the all important locale and era for my railroad....B&O's west end, circa 1948....in N scale. I wont live in a tiny apartment forever, so now is as good a time as any to undertake the collection and construction of the locos and rolling stock i will, hopefully, put to work slugging it out on Cranberry one day.

Yep, that N scale part is where it goes downhill.

Luckily i do come failry well armed with modeling experience, but ive never scratchbuilt an engine before. Mikes and diesels are nice and all, but lets face it, no one models a mountain, coal hauling railroad in the steam era to watch 2-8-2s and diesels. We do it for BIG steam. EM-1s and 2-8-8-0s, maybe even one of the last LL-1 0-8-8-0s need to find homes with me.

Now, has anyone ever attempted to build something like this? I would think the simplest starting point would be one of the P2K or Con cor N&W Y class 2-8-8-2s, at least for the B&O 2-8-8-0s, as they had 58 inch drivers and i think the Y's had 57 inch, correct? They are also both compounds (yes, most but not ALL of the EL's were converted to simple, i know....i just love those huge LP cylinders)

Boiler, cab, details, and of course the tender are totally different, but Con-cor makes (or made anyway) a nice 6 axle vandy tender, and scratchbuilding a boiler and cab and details isnt nearly as hard as scratchbuilding 8 sets of drivers and associated running gear. I guess my 2 questions are, 1) have any of you ever attempted something like this, and 2) is there a better starting point than one of the 2-8-8-2 models i mentioned? Does anyone make sets of drivers and associated parts that one could build one from the ground up, if they so desired? The 64 inch drivers of the EM-1 might or might not be a noticable difference of the 58 inch ones of the EL series in N scale. 

Steam for B&O in any scale is somewhat limited. In N scale, its 2-8-0s and light mikes. I know some nice conversions have been done with 2-10-2s, but the sharp curves found in the west end didnt mesh well with the long wheelbase of the B&Os 2-10-2s. While i like these engines and plan to own some, they dont really fit the "mountaingoing coal-drag engine" bill.

Thanks, Tim

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: US
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Posted by AltonFan on Tuesday, February 5, 2008 5:08 PM

As far as I know, nobody makes drive wheels or valve gear for scratchbuilding N scale steam.  Your best bet would be to start with suitable mechanisms of available products, and constructing a new superstructure. 

I understand there was a fellow who built quite an array of steam power, including articulateds, from the chassis of old Atlas/Rivarossi 2-8-2s, 0-8-0s, and 4-6-2s.

Dan

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, February 5, 2008 6:46 PM

Caveat - I personally model in twice-N scale, non-U.S. prototype.

If the N scale 2-8-8-2 is a Y6b (squarish feedwater heater in front of the stack) it should have 58 inch drivers.  You can either use the entire mechanism, pretty much as-is, or work up a set of simple cylinders for the front engine.  That big Y-shaped plumber's nightmare on the pilot deck would have to go - it was purely N&W.

For the EM-1, I would start with a couple of 2-8-2 frames with the (approximately) correct driver size.  The size difference would be easy to spot.  (The mundanes wouldn't know the difference, but railfans would notice it.)

As long as you don't have to change the basic geometry of the mechanicals, the cosmetic details should not be a problem for an experienced modeler.  OTOH, only an old-line micromachinist with a complete shop would try to build a complete locomotive from raw materials.

Just my My 2 cents [2c].  Others, especially N scalers, might have better ideas.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • 2,742 posts
Posted by Dave Vollmer on Tuesday, February 5, 2008 7:37 PM

Kitbashing steam in N scale can be a hobby within a hobby.

I've done 3 N scale PRR steamers (an L1s 2-8-2, an H10sb 2-8-0, and an M1 4-8-2).  Bashing the shells is not too hard; extending and/or shortening the frame can be somewhat harder, but not impossible.  I extended a Spectrum 4-8-2 frame using styrene with good results.

A recent 3-part series of articles in Railroad Model Craftsman by Max Magliaro described building an N scale PRR I1s 2-10-0 from the Kato 2-8-2.  While you may not care about the specific prototype, the article explained how to accomplish the tricky task of adding a set of drivers and extending the side rods accordingly.

In terms of driver size, you can get away with as much as 6" difference in diameter in N scale because it's so small.  Wheelbase length and valve gear type are often more important a consideration.

Do a web search on NTrak and look on their website for their N scale steam information book.  There are a ton of N scale steam kitbashes in there, including some as complex as you propose.  No, you're not insane.  If you are, you're not alone, anyway...  Smile [:)]

I'll leave you with a shot of two of my three N scale Pennsy steam kitbashes:

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Ashtabula, Ohio
  • 158 posts
Posted by 2-8-8-0 on Tuesday, February 5, 2008 7:55 PM

The 2-8-2 drives being "donated" to the EM-1 seems like a sound source. I am going to start with an EL class first, as i SHOULD be able to use the 2-8-8-2 frame pretty much as-is. Thanks for mentioning the crossover pipe on the Y, i think thats one of the things that made their compounds much more successful than others, and it was a N&W specialty. The LP cylinders are different, and of course the pilot, engine deck, and boiler are significantly different. Oddly, i will probably be able to use the cab almost as-is, as the N&W cab is similar enough to the B&O cab that it should be suitably kit-bashable to work with. I dont know how the front engine is attached or hinged to the boiler. I would like to have the front engine hinged at the rear, and the rear drivers rigidly mounted to the frame, just like the real deal. I dont plan to have curves any sharper than 22 or 24 inch radius (in N scale this should look excellent) so i do want the engines to look as realistic as possible in operation, right down to the front of the boiler hanging "out over the side" while it rounds a curve.

Once i find a build that "works" i plan to be able to repeat it. I will try to make as many parts resin-castable (or very simple) that they can be easily repeated. Cylinders, stacks, sand and steam domes, FWH, etc. should all be easy enough to replicate from a master in resin. But the boiler itself, thats the question.

If anyone has ever done something like this, is the best method to construct a boiler from brass? I would LOVE to be able to cast this in resin, but leaving a cavity large enough for internals, as well as the integrity of the part, would both be problematic wouldnt they? I dont have any desire to sell the things, but would like to have several ELs to operate (they typically operated in pairs of an EL and an LL or 2 ELs as pushers) with another EL or EM-1 on the head end. So 3 big locos for one prototypical train (of modest weight, 50 to 55 50 ton cars...sounds like N scale nirvana to me!)

Aaah, last question, does anyone know the total driver wheelbase for the Y-class 2-8-8-2s? I cant imagine its much different at all from the ELs, both types were known for being compact squat drivered types. I wonder if the B&O had kept up with modernizing their EL class like N&W did their Ys, if they would have had 300psi 160k+ TE locos as well...

Thanks for listening to my ramblings!

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Ashtabula, Ohio
  • 158 posts
Posted by 2-8-8-0 on Tuesday, February 5, 2008 8:01 PM

Dave,

Thanks for that pic, seeing something like that certainly helps calm the "lets cut up the 200+ dollar loco" jitters. Its pretty refreshing to know others have gone this route before me.

Im gonna check that book out, if they have some good step by step info in there, thats just what i need. Interesting about the Kato 2-8-2 to PRR 2-10-0 conversion, a pretty similar conversion of Kato 2-8-2 to S class 2-10-2 is covered in the B&O historical society's online modeling magazine. I guess it was chosen, because it, like the S/S1, had 58" drivers...not to mention probably runs as well as everything else kato makes.

Thanks!

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