Hi Conductor Joe. I lived in Langhorne, PA in the late forties and early fifties and observed the Crusader flying through on the Reading's 4 track electrified main behind the streamlined Pacific on many occasions.
At one time, I planned to build a layout featuring the Reading and Pennsy electrified zones north of Philly so among many other acquisitions, I purchased a complete Crusader passenger car set and the matching Pacific engine. As the Poet said, the best laid plans of mice and men aft gang agley, and so that will never come to pass.
I will be putting my Crusader set and engine on E-Bay pretty soon because I need to pay for some River Point Station EP3s.
On a humerous note, my brother needed to go to New York so he asked the Langhorne station agent where the train ended in the New York Area. His reply was "I don't rightly know, I ain't ever been up to that end of the line"
Hi guys, It's been a while.
This is one of 10 HO Rivorossi car shells that I'm metalizing for a friend. Haven't applied Clear to it yet so the shine is intense. It will be toned down once the gloss clear coats is applied to the surface.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
AntonioFP45 wrote:...check photos of the prototypes. The Santa Fe did a nice job of maintaining their streamlined cars' appearance.
Right about that. Here's a link to one of my favorite on-line photos that displays how clean the Santa Fe cars were right up to the end.
Santa Fe Sleeper 1971
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Tom Bryant_MR wrote: Antonio, those look really great. What is Alclad II ?Regards,
Antonio, those look really great. What is Alclad II ?
Regards,
Hello Tom,
Thank you. It's a lacquer based painting system (though some argue alcohol) that allows modelers to create unique and/or unusual finishes on models, such as prismatics, metallic hues, and metal finishes. It's very popular with scale auto, aircraft, and military vehicle modelers.
Just click on this link. http://www.alclad2.com/index2.html
Tom
Arjay1969 wrote: Based on this thread, I decided to go ahead and order some Alclad II for a couple of projects for my San Francisco Chief. Specifically, I got some undecorated Highliners shells as a wedding present, and I'm detailing them up as Santa Fe passenger power circa 1969.
Based on this thread, I decided to go ahead and order some Alclad II for a couple of projects for my San Francisco Chief. Specifically, I got some undecorated Highliners shells as a wedding present, and I'm detailing them up as Santa Fe passenger power circa 1969.
I have ordered the Alclad from my LHS, but have been away for a couple of days so I do not know if it has come in yet. Tomorrow we are due for a PILE of snow with gale force winds, so no 15 mile trips in to town. I have to make some window modifications to the IHC shell before I start painting so it will look more like the MEC prototype.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Arjay1969 Based on this thread, I decided to go ahead and order some Alclad II for a couple of projects for my San Francisco Chief. Specifically, I got some undecorated Highliners shells as a wedding present, and I'm detailing them up as Santa Fe passenger power circa 1969. So, I have a question. Is there anything special I need to do to use this stuff? According to the web site, it's apparently pre-thinned for airbrush use. True? I'll be using the Chrome for the stainless steel panels (based on those nifty photos Antonio posted), and Aluminum for the non-SS parts, so I'll have to mask. Does this stuff take masking easily? Thanks for any info!
So, I have a question. Is there anything special I need to do to use this stuff? According to the web site, it's apparently pre-thinned for airbrush use. True?
I'll be using the Chrome for the stainless steel panels (based on those nifty photos Antonio posted), and Aluminum for the non-SS parts, so I'll have to mask. Does this stuff take masking easily?
Thanks for any info!
Arjay, great that you're going for it
Below is my preferred method. I continue to update and modify it. During the process do not touch the shell(s) with your bare hands. Wear latex gloves if you must move them. I cut out a paint stand for my passenger cars from a styrofoam block that housed a new computer at my job. So once the shell is on the that block, I won't have to touch it until the paint job is complete.
During the process do not touch the shell(s) with your bare hands. Wear latex gloves if you must move them. I cut out a paint stand for my passenger cars from a styrofoam block that housed a new computer at my job. So once the shell is on the that block, I won't have to touch it until the paint job is complete.
1. Wash your shells thoroughly in warm, soapy water. Dawn or Ivory Liquid soaps work very well and leave no residue.
2. Make sure the surface is smooth but doesn't feel slippery. It's better not to scuff the surface unless absolutely necessary. If so, "very lightly" scuff the surface in one direction with a 3M gray scotch pad (available at most Home Depots).
3. Mask off the interior walls and all window openings. Final wipe with a tack cloth.
4. Air brush 1 to 2 thin coats of high gloss black paint to the exterior. If you can get full coverage and hiding in the first coat, that's even beeter. I've been using Scale Coat II Gloss Black #S-2010 with a small amount of white mixed in the 2 oz jar. Mix 1 part thinner to 1 part paint. Air Pressure at 20 psi. Practice applying the black on scrap styrene or junker rolling stock first. The key here is that the final finish appear smooth and slick. Allow a week for the paint to cure thoroughly.
5. Alclad II Chrome: I've used various settings in past posts, but setting the airbrush between 12psi and 15psi seems to work best. The fan width should be narrow, and the needle size fine, although medium will work.
Lightly spray each coat in long strokes, as if you were using a paint brush. After your first coat, wait 15 minutes. Yes, it looks dark gray, don't worry, that's normal . Apply your 2nd coat. Make sure you get into the little crevices around the diaphrams. After you finish this 2nd coat, WALK AWAY from the shell and don't look at if for at least 15 minutes. Come back and check it out. If it's still a bit dark, apply a 3rd thin coat of the Alclad. You'll likely be smiling when you finish. Don't worry if it looks too shiny.
6. Wait a day and apply ONE thin, even coat of acrylic based Gloss Clear coat. This will tone the shine down slightly. If using solvent based clear, wait at least 4 days.
7. After letting the clear cure a day or so, apply your decals.
8. Apply another thin coat of gloss clear to seal your decals. Your model's finish should be similar to my Rivorossis' finish.
Decision time. If you want your cars finish to appear more "aged" then add another coat of gloss clear, and so forth.
However before toning down the sheen too much, check photos of the prototypes. The Santa Fe and CB&Q both did a nice job of maintaining their streamlined cars' overall appearance.
High Greens
Lee,
Quite often, there is mold release left on the parts even when you get them. I'd recommend giving them a nice wash in the sink with simple dishwashing detergent and water, then let them dry thoroughly. Using a primer wouldn't hurt, either. With the primer, I've had good luck with solvent-based paints, acrylics, laquers...anything I could throw at it. WITHOUT primer, some styrene is just too slick for some paints to grab onto (mostly acrylics, but I've had enamels do this too).
And no worries...some people don't like answering questions that have already been asked, but I don't mind.
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
As a new modeler I have a question. I have never had good luck painting plastic so I'm reluctant to paint cars and locos, what paint due you use? Primer? Acrylic? etc?I painted some styren after I scrubed it,and primed with Testers #1237 gray primer it didn't seem to hold that well. Do the cars need to be sanded?
I suppose I should have done a search first before I posted this question, oh well I appeciate any help.
Lee
As far as I know, it just shuttled back and forth between the Readig Terminal in Philly and the Northern terminus in Jersey City, I think.
My kid brother had to go to New York from Langhorne, PA. He asked the Reading Langhorne station agent where the train ended in the New York area.
His reply was - "I don't rightly know, I ain't never been to that end of the line".
He took the Reading commuter local to Trenton, and the Pennsy from there.
BigRusty,
According to a friend of mine, the Canadian National purchased the 5 car Crusader train from the Reading. What you're seeing in the photo is what's left of the CN paint scheme that was applied to the car.
He e-mailed me a wealth of info regarding streamlined passenger cars. If he gives me his permission, I will post it on a new thread.
Charlie,
My friend confirmed your statement that the streamlined Crusader train was exclusive to Reading.
I may be wrong in saying that the Crusader cars were not painted. From this photo it appears that they had a black or dark blue window panel.
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=303288
When I get a chance I'll open the box and see what the HO models look like.
Since I am now modelingthe New Haven exclusively I plan to put the complete set on e-bay some day soon.
I don't know if this is relevant, but don't forget about this site for pax car pics... http://www.trainweb.org/passengercars/
There are a few shots of Reading cars.
bogp40 Antonio,Didn't you also mention a while ago on a thread about the Alclad that to alter the depth and overall coloring, you had experimented with various gray, charcoals to black as the base. I don't remember the exact technique or the outcome. Could you elaborate on those findings?
Antonio,
Didn't you also mention a while ago on a thread about the Alclad that to alter the depth and overall coloring, you had experimented with various gray, charcoals to black as the base. I don't remember the exact technique or the outcome. Could you elaborate on those findings?
BogP40
Glad you brought that up. I looked at photos of new streamlined cars from the late 1930s through the 1950s and noticed that there was a variety of sheens between them. I realized that a modeler can drive himself crazy in trying to decide which one to reproduce.
Based on the photos, it seems that the sheen on the early Budd and ACF cars was actually less reflective than on later production run cars from the 1950s. Photos show a more "white-like" appearance that resembled aluminum, when brand new. If you look at Black and White photos of the Reading Crusader, those stainless steel cars indeed look white from a distance. The later production run Budd car surfaces generally reflected the slightly darker finish that we're so familiar with. Pullman Standard streamliners featured carbon steel construction, but had partial or full corrugated stainless steel panels on the exteriors. Ironically these cars had a deep sheen from the beginning. Again, this is based on my observations, not fact.
In modeling; to capture that whiter looking sheen on those early streamliners, the gloss dark grey base is what I would suggest using. However, since I'm modeling the Post WWII Budd cars, I will continue to use the recommended high gloss black base as a foundation under the Alclad II Chrome. The metalizer reflects the base color and black comes very close to providing the near mirror image effect.
Guys, please don't take my word for it. Have some fun and experiment.
Base colors do change the overall metalizing color a good deal but the depth slightly. The depth (D.O.I "distinctiveness of Image") is the result of the base's gloss finish.
I noticed that the metalized finish on the BLI cars has a "yellowish" tint to it. I wonder what base color BLI used as a foundation? I'm only guessing, but I think the reason BLI may have used a dark base or metalizer with a reddish/yellowish tint to it is that many of the color photographs of the CZ are in the desert areas and those Budd car surfaces are reflecting the terrain next to them....reddish/yellow colors.
AntonioFP45 wrote: Charlie, you're the man! Thank you.After your response I continued searching the web for photos and found this other car. Not exact, but it is even closer in appearance to my Rivorossi observation car than the 1st photo link above. http://image50.webshots.com/550/3/37/8/2521337080031568960zGnzYQ_ph.jpgNow a question for you (I've asked several of my friends as well). Do you know if Reading passenger cars also ran on trains from the SAL, ACL, Southern, FEC or any of the other east coast railroads? I'm wondering if I can letter my cars in the Reading scheme and run them in a train, such as the Silver Meteor or Champion. These trains often ran with "run through" cars, interchanged from various railroads. I've been a modeler 30 years and seldom ever see shots of Reading passenger equipment, other than the steamers and those beautifuly restored EMD FP7s.
Charlie, you're the man! Thank you.
After your response I continued searching the web for photos and found this other car. Not exact, but it is even closer in appearance to my Rivorossi observation car than the 1st photo link above.
http://image50.webshots.com/550/3/37/8/2521337080031568960zGnzYQ_ph.jpg
Now a question for you (I've asked several of my friends as well). Do you know if Reading passenger cars also ran on trains from the SAL, ACL, Southern, FEC or any of the other east coast railroads? I'm wondering if I can letter my cars in the Reading scheme and run them in a train, such as the Silver Meteor or Champion. These trains often ran with "run through" cars, interchanged from various railroads.
I've been a modeler 30 years and seldom ever see shots of Reading passenger equipment, other than the steamers and those beautifuly restored EMD FP7s.
Antonio, the Reading's passenger car's for the Crusader were captive to the Reading. Some of their American Flyer type cars could be found on other cars in the PA-NY-NJ area only. I've interested in Pass trains since Junior High and model business trains of the ATSF and SP. It seems strange that I know more about Reading's Crusader than I should.
Charlie
MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Thank you, BigRusty.
A friend of mine emailed me and stated, as you did, that the Crusader ran with 2 observation cars.
I still would like to find out if the Reading cars ran on passenger trains from other railroads. I'm assuming that the Pennsy would be a safe assumption, but I'd like to know for sure.
I observed the Reading Crusader numerous times roaring through the Langhorne, PA station. It was pulled by a streamlined steam engine, a pacific I think, with obs on both ends so only the engine was turned. Since the Reading was electrified, I never understood why it had a steam engine.
I have a Crusader 5 car set and engine, probably NJ Custom Brass, which I have never run. As I recall from memory the cars were not painted.
AntonioFP45 wrote: Charlie,Please, tell me more about this. I have only one photo of the Reading Crusader. It's in an 1950s book titled: "Trains, Tracks, and Travel". It's a distant shot showing a streamlined Reading steamer hauling a string of what appear to be Budd cars. I looked on the web for other shots of the Crusaser and found more black and white shots of the steamer. I finally found an interesting color shot of ex-Reading Observation car that is similar, but not exact in appearance to the Rivorossi observation car.Here's the link (scroll down to see the car when get there) http://www.readingrailroad.org/news/images/news07_crusader.jpg
Please, tell me more about this.
I have only one photo of the Reading Crusader. It's in an 1950s book titled: "Trains, Tracks, and Travel". It's a distant shot showing a streamlined Reading steamer hauling a string of what appear to be Budd cars.
I looked on the web for other shots of the Crusaser and found more black and white shots of the steamer. I finally found an interesting color shot of ex-Reading Observation car that is similar, but not exact in appearance to the Rivorossi observation car.
Here's the link (scroll down to see the car when get there)
http://www.readingrailroad.org/news/images/news07_crusader.jpg
Antonio, the Rivarossi cars represent post-war Budd cars while the Reading Crusader cars were pre-war Budd cars. The observation is a former Reading Obs but, the fluting above the windows has been removed and replaces with Stainless Steel Sheathing. Also, the skirting has been modified from its original configuration. The most important things to look at are the window arrangements and the fluting is correct for the road/manufacturer. There isn't a whole lot of information on the Crusader as only two trainsets were produced. To make these cars correct for Pre-war cars, you would need to replace the vestibule doors with the doors from Concor, Athearn cars and remove the fluting that wraps up over the door and runs between the upper fluting and windows.
Antonio FP45, the Rivarossi Budds are models of Reading Crusader cars.
Consist of Reading Crusader
1 Chair Obs
1 Chair car
1 Diner
BTW:
Although not prototypically exact, I'm considering decalingr them for one of the other railroads that I like, such as the Southern or Florida East Coast. I can claim the old "Freelance License".
Southwest Chief wrote: Looks great I was going to go the Alclad route for my Amtrak Southwest Chief Superliners, but looks like Walthers is doing the hard part for me with the new IVb factory "plated" Superliners. Hopefully they'll make all styles of Superliners and paint schemes in the upcoming years.
Looks great
I was going to go the Alclad route for my Amtrak Southwest Chief Superliners, but looks like Walthers is doing the hard part for me with the new IVb factory "plated" Superliners. Hopefully they'll make all styles of Superliners and paint schemes in the upcoming years.
Thanks for the link. Good to see that Walthers is metalizing these beautiful new cars. BLI did a decent job with the California Zephyr series cars. However, I do realize that metalzing will add to the cost of the models.
Jumijo wrote: Antonio,How fragile is the Alclad finish (i.e. handling), and what type of clear coat do you apply over yours? Also, I've heard of people painting Alclad over Future. Do they do this instead of laying down a base black coat?Jim
How fragile is the Alclad finish (i.e. handling), and what type of clear coat do you apply over yours? Also, I've heard of people painting Alclad over Future. Do they do this instead of laying down a base black coat?
Jim
Jumijo,
Great question. IMHO, Alclad should be clearcoated because finger prints will dull it almost immedietly. However, in our case applying clear is beneficial, appearance wise, because the Alclad II Chrome is actually quite reflective. When coated with clear, the sheen is toned down slightly to the point where, imho, it closely resembles the polished stainless steel appearance that we see on Budd, Pullman Standard, ACF, and Bombardier streamlined passenger cars.
Clear coat should be applied in a "thin", even coat on this finish. Remember, the more coats of clear applied, the more sheen will be lost.
Future works great as a first gloss coat to seal the Alclad and to apply decals as well. Be aware though that Future, reportedly, gums up inside of the airbrush if not flushed out immedietly after one finishes spraying it.
As mentioned before, after installing decals:
1. For the "As delivered" brand new look, it's a simple matter of applying one thin glossy clear coat or Future Floor Finish after you've applied your decals. Sovlent based Floquil and Testors Clears work fine. I use Acrylic based PolyScale and Badger thinned an extra 15%. I test my paints and clears on a junker box car body shell first.
2. For a "been on the road a few years but well maintained" look, apply a total of 2 to 3 thin coats of gloss clear. If you want your car to look more weathered, just add successive coats of clear until you see the result you want. Caution, too many clear coats and the Alclad will look like an ordinary silver.
Once the clear finish has hardened, you can handle the car (with care of course) with no adverse effects to the Alclad II Chrome.
I'll send the society an email and inquire about those passenger cars. Thanks!
Check the NHRHTA web site for a list of HO kits available.
http://www.nhrhta.org/.
I am sure they are out of the coaches, but still have the Combine/Parlor/
Also have the great baggage and rpo car kits.