1930s Chicago - what would you expect to see

[chutton01]

Hmm, since this thread has popped up again, in sync with this RestaurantThread, do you have either a White Castle or a White Tower outlet on you layout to give your model 1930s folk a taste of proto-fast food?

[Don Gibson]

I REMEMBER  brick buildings, elevated RR-right-of-ways, soot (from RR's), black snow, old delivery trucks, Billboards, and mounted policemen, as I grew up there.

The 'Loop' was a fomation of elevated trains circling the downtown business district.

[jecorbett]

My first thought when I read this was to reference the movie The Sting but I see someone already suggested that. I didn't even think of The Untouchables but that is another excellent choice. There is one nice scene in The Sting which shows a back alley loading dock with embedded tracks in the pavement. My first thought when I saw the movie was it would make and excellent MR scene. One of the scenes looks like it might have been enhanced with special effects but that's good material anyway. 

Generally both movies captured the feel of that era. The producers have done a lot of that research for you. There aren't many color photos from that era so movies is probably the best source for color scenes. I'm sure there are nitpickers who could point out things in those two movies that didn't belong but the average person wouldn't notice them.

[lvanhen]

One more vehicle for the streets:  an ice truck - the thing that brought ice to all the ice boxes.

 

 

As a small kid in Brooklyn (NYC), I remember ice being delivered from a horse & wagon!!  Fresh vegtables and the knife/scissor sharpener also!  The knife/scissor sharpener would be really neat to model - either as horse drawn or early motorized - I don't ever recall seeing one in model form.  My

(edit) I also remember the chain-drive Mac trucks - probably for coal & other heavy "stuff"

[cnw1995]

I work in Chicago's Loop and there is a surprising amount of 'infrastructure' still around from the era you're modeling. Beautiful, evocative work, by the way. Let me know if you'd like me to look up anything.

[Fazby]

One more vehicle for the streets:  an ice truck - the thing that brought ice to all the ice boxes.

 

 

[gmcrail]

Chicago is like the Mecca of railroads, everywhere!! You would have streetcars (Chicago Surface Lines) the elevated, the North Shore, the South Shore, IC electric, CA&E, C&NW, UP, NKP, Wabash, the underground freight tunnels, C&EI, IHB, Belt Railway of Chicago, NYC, I prolly cant remember more lines offhand.

All true, but you've left out most of the major ones:  AT&SF, CB&Q, PRR, B&O, MILW, CGW, Monon, Chicago & Alton, IC, and more.  The UP came in on C&NW tracks.  The GN came in via CB&Q trackage, I believe.  I don't think the Southern made it that far north, and of course the strictly East Coast RRs like the Seaboard, the ACL, the New Haven, etc. were about the only others who didn't make it to Chicago, though they might have had sleepers routed through other roads...   

Chicago was and is a great city, and a railfan's dream location!

 

[jon grant]

Hi,

Chicago fire hydrants were red, at least back to the '20s.  Mobilman44

 

Thanks for the information. I now have a fire engine to add to the layout, although finding the driver is proving difficult

 

 Jon

[mobilman44]

Hi,

Chicago fire hydrants were red, at least back to the '20s.  The Chicago fire (1877???) was a significant impetus in getting fire safety established in the city.  Of course it is possible that some hydrants were a different color, but from my earliest memories (1950) and my older relatives, it looks like they were around for some time.

ENJOY,

Mobilman44

[jon grant]

Lots and lots of black Ford old Model-T and new Model-A trucks & automobiles.  A few remaining horse drawn ice, milk, trash, and probably mail wagons.

Done

 

 

 

 Jon

 

[mobilman44]

Old Man,

  I was addressing the "40s", which at that time did have the elevated circling the downtown, and future generations called it "the loop" based upon that - as it still existed for those generations.  In any case, I think the folks get the point! 

Mobilman44

[jon grant]

One other aspect.  There aren't any manhole covers in the street.  I don't know you want us to get that picky, but they are a very common feature of American streets.

The vehicles were covering them up. here's a view of the bare street showing manhole cover (another under the bridge) and drains.

 

Not enough arms on the telephone and power poles

I'm working on it, starting with the power lines.

 

Jon

[orsonroy]

And of course, don't forget that neighborhood tavern!

Done. The Blue Note Lounge and Nelsons

Hi Jon,

There's one period snafu in the above picture: the garbagemen's orange coveralls. Safety orange is a pretty modern thing (late 1960s, at least), and wouldn't be seen in a 1930s or 1950s scene. Repaint them with either white (yes, white) or jeancloth blue (dark indigo) dungarees. The hard hats have to go too (reshape them as some sort of nondescript "cap")

Hmm...I'll have to dig around in Cushman to see what color Chicago fire hydrants were back then too; you can't assume red (yellow was as common, and still is on places)

[jon grant]

I do hope the fellow that opened this subject puts a couple of "dog or beef" places on his layout. 

Done.

 

And of course, don't forget that neighborhood tavern!

 

Done. The Blue Note Lounge and Nelsons

 

Jon

[The Old Man]

-  The El (elevated train) circled downtown which gave the area the name "the loop".  Most folks took the El to commute.

- 

A common misconception, there was a streetcar that originally made the loop circuit, hence the name.

[jon grant]

... and snow ... don't forget the snow.  (I was there during the blizzard of '66).

 

Did that with my British 1917-1918 layout 

 

Jon

 

[jon grant]

Hmm, jon grant, did you ask this question a number of months before on this forum (or another forum, or some magazine even)?

Yes and no. I made the decision to add the option of an earlier era (1930s) a few months ago after a couple of exhibitions last October. I discovered I was taking so many locos and freight cars to shows that many of them were not even getting to run on the layout, and some that did were creating anomalies (B&M blue/black boxcar running in same train as a billboard reefer)

I therefore decided to split my collection into 2 distinct eras and only take half of them to one show, running the layout in the 1930s, and taking the other half to the next show and running the layout in the 1950s, thus using much more of my stock over 2 shows.

To get an idea of building and exhibiting a layout in the UK, read John Wright's article in the latest Model Railroad Planner - John is also 1/3 of my operating crew for Sweethome 

 

Is this an ongoing process, as I thought you had finished with the backdate when (and wherever you posted the images)?

 

It is very much an ongoing process. If you look closely at the photos posted earlier, you'll see many of the same road vehicles in each photo. That's because I don't have nearly enough at the moment. I also have a load of freight cars to build before I exhibit the layout in March. At the moment I have more than enough soundchipped steam locos, billboard reefers and tank cars but am far from having a balanced fleet.

Thankfully the generic nature of the buildings on the layout lends itself to multiple eras as in the accompanying photos, so backdating to the 1930s should hopefully involve changing only the billboards, road vehicles, signs - nothing major. NB I intend the 1930s and 1950s signs and billboards to be interchangeable.

1930s

 

1950s

 

 

1970s-80s

 

 

1990s

 

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions so far. I am making a list and will be crossing off each one as I do them.

 

Jon

[Autobus Prime]

everything in your photos looks a bit too clean , dirty it up a bit in the industrial areas , and near the railroad . all that coal smoke had to go somewhere

e:

I'd say add some smudges to the brickwork, but don't overdo the litter, and don't make it look too much like "1942 Stalingrad".  A bit dingy but maintained, even on the industries.  When there aren't a lot of customers ganging up on you, that's the time when you end up telling the laborers to go trim the grass, or sweep the front steps again, or paint the flagpole.

The OP should make sure to have lots of people walking around downtown.  Too many of our RRs look like deserts with cars.  That's a modern phenomenon.

The RPI site has a lot of excellent information for the OP.  I'd pay for a month and browse, browse, browse, assimilate as much as possible from the Rensselaer time machine. 

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu

 

[ereimer]

you need a couple of hoboes riding in an open door boxcar , or being chased away from the tracks by a railroad 'bull'  (the railroad police , paid by the railroad companies to protect their property)

everything in your photos looks a bit too clean , dirty it up a bit in the industrial areas , and near the railroad . all that coal smoke had to go somewhere

[dknelson]

Here are some classic Chicago photos from the Chicago Tribune collection

http://pictopia.com/perl/gal?process=gallery&gallery_id=5642&provider_id=334

Ditto from the Chicago Daily News

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/ndlpcoop/ichihtml/cdnhome.html

Don't forget the Chicago Historical Society

 http://chicagouncommon.com/photography/gallery/790/

Here is an interesting index of historic photo collections

http://history.sandiego.edu/GEN/documents/clipsources.html

Dave Nelson

 

[wjstix]

I believe the Chicago Railroad Fair someone mentioned was actually after the war - 1948 IIRC. 1933-34 was the Chicago WORLD's Fair. That's the end spot of the famous Denver to Chicago non-stop run of the Zephyr in 1934.

BTW, hadn't thought about it until it was mentioned in a book I'm reading on the Twentieth Century Limited, but Chicago was very much the streamliner capital of the world in the thirties. By 1939 the CNW, Milwaukee, Union Pacific, Santa Fe, New York Central, Burlington, IC, and a few others were running steam or diesel powered streamlined trains into Chicago every day.

Fun fact: I remember reading somewhere that in 1935 the most number of daily scheduled inter-city trains between any two U.S. cities were the trains running between Minneapolis / St.Paul and Chicago. In 1995, the most number of daily scheduled inter-city airline flights between any two cities in the U.S. was between Minneapolis / St.Paul and Chicago.

[Phoebe Vet]

... and snow ... don't forget the snow.  (I was there during the blizzard of '66).

[mobilman44]

Heartland Division,

  Come on guy, you're making me hungry!   

Growing up in Chicago all I knew was hotdogs with mustard/relish/onions and the optional tomato/pepper/cucumber slice.

Every couple blocks was a mom/dad pizza place - each with their own unique style.  And deep dish may have been popular in fancy places or in later years, but all I knew was thin crust.  Oh, and ALL sausage pizza was made with clumps of Italian sausage.  

But you missed something that was my personal favorite...........  ITALIAN BEEF SANDWICHES, with peppers and "wet"........  Goodness knows you can't get them anywhere else I've been, and I miss them terribly. 

I do hope the fellow that opened this subject puts a couple of "dog or beef" places on his layout.  And of course, don't forget that neighborhood tavern!

One thing I will say about the "old days" in Chicago.......  Folks worked hard, played hard, ate hard, and frankly drank hard too! 

ENJOY,

Mobilman44

[Heartland Division CB&Q]

Jon, I really enjoy the photos. 

If you attempt a downtown scene, you may wish to include a downsized State Street with a selectively compressed Marshal Field's department store.

Meat packing was a big business and stock yards were a huge.

I recall rideing the "El" to Wrigley Field or Comisky Park.

Now, I reside at a location near at a source for "moonshine" that went to Chicago during Prohibition.

Now, Chicago style hot dogs and pizza are the best. Back then.......... anybody recall Wimpy's hamburgers?

 

Cheers!

[Don Gibson]

Whilst I have been backdating the layout to the 1930s, I have been thinking about what I would expect to see on a layout depicting Chicago in the 1930s. Thanks

Lived there in the 30's. Grew up there. .

MEMORIES: Buildings made of red brick with black mortar (soot). Street cars (trollys), - Chicago river Canal and bridges, Elevated trains, Interurbans to suburbs, Black snow (soot), Old delvery trucks, Mounted Policemen, Street cleaners with push carts, brooms & shovel. Billboads advertised local products (Campbell Soups, Wrigleys gum. Palmolive soaps, etc.),'Dads Old Fashioned Root Beer ("Have you had it lately?").

Basically, Brick buildings, elevated railroad right-of-ways, and old cars/trucks,+ Steam engines with olive-green heavyweight cars. (Streamlined diesel trains were exhibited at the 1936 fair, but seldom seen). Atlantics & Pacifics ruled the 'name' trains. C&NWs '400' 4-6-2s & CM&St.P 4-4-2 competed daily for the Chicago - Minniapolis traffic - and advertised on Billboards.

 

 

[AltonFan]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, I have a bucketful of information to get stuck into. Here are a couple of recent progress photos with 1930s vehicles on the layout and a short video with 1930s freight cars.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-BmCAl5vp0

Jon

Looking at these pictures, jon, it looks like you captured one other thing I wanted to mention.  Throughout much of the City, railroads run on embankments which carry the tracks over the streets.  A typical arrangement is a concrete retaining wall, a steep green space, and then the track.  At streets concrete or stone abutments hold through-girder bridges.  (there are also concrete bridges as well.)  Some of these bridges might have billboards, or be painted with advertising for the owner's railroad.

 

[chutton01]

Hmm, jon grant, did you ask this question a number of months before on this forum (or another forum, or some magazine even)? I ask because I readily recognized your street scenes (especially the knocked-over yellow street sign) - I seem to recall you were backdating from the 1950s maybe?
Is this an ongoing process, as I thought you had finished with the backdate when (and wherever you posted the images)?

[The Old Man]

Don't forget gangsters,John Dillinger.Ma Barker.and Bonnie and Clyde  to name some big ones.You could have the cops shooting it out with the bad guys at the local bank,remember tho the bad guys had tommy guns.I'm not sure what the cops used.

The only one is that list who would had ever been in Chicago was of course John Dillinger.  He was killed in the alley along side the Biograph Movie Theatre--which is still there.

[mobilman44]

Hi!

I certainly agree with Cbq9911a's posting.  I'm a third generation Chicago boy and grew up there in the late '40s, and left in the late '60s.  May I add to the responses.......

-  Chicago was a hard working, blue collar city that "got the job done".  The political machine was second to none and very evident.  Organized crime was known to all and accepted as a part of life.  Frankly, "civilians" were pretty safe and secure.  My Mother (Italian) says it was very safe to play outside and "everybody knew everybody".  My grandfather was a stationary engineer for the Fox de Luxe brewery (and yes, he was employed throughout Prohibition).  

-  Chicago was a city of "neighborhoods", each with their own ethnic majority.  Chicago was a magnet for the working man, and they settled in areas of folks with similar backgrounds.

-  Coal was King!  Most every house/business burned coal for heating, and I recall the coal truck dumping its load in front of our store, and then it would be wheel barrowed to the basement chute.  In the mid-'50s, the coal was delivered in large canvas sacks, eliminating the wheelbarrow and mess on the streets.  Of course burning coal meant that most buildings were dirty, some a lot worse than others. 

-  Many major streets were paved with large cobblestones - very hard bricks about 1 1/2 times the thickness of a regular brick.  Their surface color ranged from brown to almost red.  Our street was like this, and there were streetcar tracks with red streetcars, replaced by green trolleys and later buses in the late '50s.

-  The spring and fall weather was usually terrific, summer was wonderful but could be very hot.  Winter could last from November thru March, and could be brutal.

-  Chicago was the railroad center of the country (no trains passed through Chicago) and most trains were steam powered.  Railroad right of way's were no nonsense and imposing to behold.  Everyone knew that the city depended on its railroads to exist, and they were built to last.

-  The Chicago lakefront (with its Gold Coast) was simply beautiful.  Most neighborhoods were as clean as they could be and had their own charm.  Manufacturing facilities were usually segregated into industrial areas, and of course the business district was "downtown". 

-  The El (elevated train) circled downtown which gave the area the name "the loop".  Most folks took the El to commute.

-  Oh, Chicago is called the "windy city".  That is derived from the politians (windbags) and not the gentle breezes that float thru the city.

Got to go,

Mobilman44