I think...... no wait, you wanted to know where to find motors, not advice on what to do.
My primary advice is to measure the motors. Diameter, across the flats if it has flats, Length of can/frame, shaft(s) diameter(s), how far the shaft(s) protrude from the casing. All that, probably in millimeters. The you have a good chance of finding the right motor that will work.
Then look for motors at NWSL, look for Mashita (sp?) on eBay, do a web search with Yahoo or Google. You found this place, you can find a motor. People whoo have such motors are looking for you too, remember that.
SS,
You might want to look at what A-line has to offer as well...they sell a small MAshima can motor that works quite well for smaller scales (I've used them in HOn3 locos with hoods about the same width as an N-scale locomotive body).
http://www.ppw-aline.com/re-power.html
Specifically, the 1220 (12mm diameter, 20mm length, double-ended), part no. 40323.
Good luck!
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
My ancient N Big Boy and Veranda still run like new.
except the dingdangdong big boy's rear engine jammed, so I of course had to go in and fix it, and did fix it.
My LL GP9 went from powered to dummy to a few surviving parts.
Bachman F7 is just the weight now
And the LL GP38 no longer exists. end of story.
moral:Turn old engines into slugs or parts!
DUH!
SS Express wrote: shayfan84325 wrote: Incidentally, my preferred method for fastening a motor in place is silicone sealer. It's easy, flexible, deadens sound - and if you need to remove the motor you just cut through it with a hobby knife. I checked out the e-bay add and I think I can find something there that will work. Using silicon sealer were my exact thoughts and it appears you have proven it out. Thanks for the info!! Rich
shayfan84325 wrote: Incidentally, my preferred method for fastening a motor in place is silicone sealer. It's easy, flexible, deadens sound - and if you need to remove the motor you just cut through it with a hobby knife.
Incidentally, my preferred method for fastening a motor in place is silicone sealer. It's easy, flexible, deadens sound - and if you need to remove the motor you just cut through it with a hobby knife.
I checked out the e-bay add and I think I can find something there that will work. Using silicon sealer were my exact thoughts and it appears you have proven it out. Thanks for the info!!
Rich
I've had good very good luck using 3M double-sided exterior tape for mounting flat can motors in locos. 3M Scotch 4011 Exterior Mounting Tape
It's very soft and sticky, so it's good for sound deadening and doesn't let go until you want it to. It's much better than the typical white double-sided tape, more like the better servo mounting tape made for RC applications. I picked up mine at Home Despot.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
There's an upper-end class of can motor: "Coreless motors." These motors usually have more poles and they don't have the iron center core that you find on conventional motors. This makes them freewheel when power is cut (it's like having a flywheel). They come in sizes from tiny (1/4 inch X 1/2 inch) to pretty big, and they cost about $30 for model railroad sized motors.
There's a guy who sells them on eBay (search on "coreless motor"), along with some other sources.
I've installed these motors in some vintage brass locos and even with the original gearing the locos run so well that I'll put them up against any new product's performance. The low-speed performance is amazing!.
The advice about cleaning and checking the pickups is also excellent, and an inexpensive way to start getting these little engines running again.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
Artur wrote:The motors you are referring to are very common the one I was talking about are harder to find, they were used mostly in the 90's CD roms. they are 12V motors used to open and close the CD drawer.
Those are nice little motors. I'll have to keep my eyes out for them, but all of the CD tray motors I've come across have been the pancake style, even those from the 90's.
SteamFreak wrote: Are your locos diesel, steam, or both? Steamers generally have less room.
Are your locos diesel, steam, or both? Steamers generally have less room.
Right now I have 2 diesels and a bachmann steamer torn down. The bachmann is from the mid 90's but the atlas E-9 and the PA unit are from the 70's.
The motors you are referring to are very common the one I was talking about are harder to find, they were used mostly in the 90's CD roms. they are 12V motors used to open and close the CD drawer.
Here's Northwest Shortline's brochure of replacement motors.
http://www.nwsl.com/Brochure%20Pages/broch%20160009%20Motor.htm
The first two on the list are small enough for N scale, but look more appropriate for diesels because of their length. Are your locos diesel, steam, or both? Steamers generally have less room.
The typical CD ROM tray motors are wide and squat, and wouldn't fit in an Nscale loco. They are more appropriate for remotoring old HO scale locos like those made by Rivarossi, but typically are rated at about 5 volts and tend to run too fast or even burn out at 12v. Motors found in automotive CD player tend to be better suited, like this Mabuchi: http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/DCM-308/400/7_VDC_MOTOR,_USED_.html
It would probably fit in some of those cheap N scale diesels with one driven truck, but the RPM's are quite high.
Guys, thanks for the replies. The explanations were great and I now have a couple ideas what to do. I know a guy who fixes PC's for a living so I will check his stash of CD roms. I have already disassembled and cleaned most of them up. The motors are stone dead. These were my dad's first N scale stuff from the early 70's and I ran them to death when I was a kid. They cleaned up pretty good and I already replaced most of the couplers I broke when I was young. I figure if I can just get something to spin I can fix the other stuff. I work in a small parts machine shop with CNC equipment so I figure if I can't make something, one of the other old timers in there can. Thanks again......
If these locos have been packed away a long time, the motors themselves may not be bad. You might want to disassemble these models and give them a good cleaning, wheels, gears and all electrical contact points and then relube the gears and motor bearings, (use a plastic compatable oil sparingly, Hobb e Lube or LaBelle are 2 brands from the LHS).
You might also try the original manufacturers for replacement parts like the motors, they're all still in business, especially Atlas units of the 90's, the motors are likely still available from their service department. Replacing the factory motors with something else is a job for a modeler with advanced skills as it would probably involve some grinding to custom fit a different motor.
Personally, I would put them in a display cabinet and buy some new stuff. N scale has come a long way in both detail level and running. You'll be hard pressed to get the old stuff to run well no matter what you do short of replacing the whole chassis with a modern version.
But try cleaning first, (use Isopropl alcohol), you may be pleasantly surprised.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Can motors are motors where a (usually) cylindrical case encloses the armature, commutator, and brushes. The magnets are arranged around the armature on the inside of the case. Some can motors have 2 sides flattened to fit in small spaces better.
Open frame motors have the magnets in a block with iron pole pieces which extend the magnetic field to either side of the armature. The armature and commutator are generally visible.
The biggest enemy of model train motors is heat. Overheating is caused by excessive load, which causes excessive current to be drawn, and/or with high current pulses at slow RPMs which build heat faster than the motor can get rid of it. Dissipating heat depends on air flow, armature iron mass, and conduction away from the motor. Obviously, open frame motors can dissipate heat more easily than can motors. The smaller N scale motors have the worst case scenario - a small physical motor with small armature mass, enclosed in a small body, and insulated from the metal frame and weight (good heat sinks) for DCC compatibility. Throw in a gear train that is not as free as it should be for any reason and you have a cooked motor.
The other failure points of motors are the bearings and the brushes.
Determining why a motor is failed is important to prevent failure of the replacement. Often there is a bind or gear mesh problem that caused the overheating, and must be fixed before replacing the motor. One of the best mechanism tests is to roll it with motor and worm(s) (the spiral cut gear) removed across a smooth glass surface. If it doesn't roll smoothly, then you have work to do.
Can motors are not easily user-serviceable, nor are parts generally available. Usually, the entire motor is replaced, with Sagami/NWSL motors being the best-known exception. You will have to contact each locomotive manufacturer to see if an exact replacement is available. If not, you will have to install an acceptable substitute. Size, shaft diameter, RPMs are all issues in choosing and installing a replacement. Can motors of various sizes are available from NWSL, Kato, and possibly Atlas and Bachmann.
The only supplier of open-frame motors left that I know of is Bowser, who obtained the rights and updated a couple of traditional Pittman designs. I doubt these were used in any N scale locomotives.
If a motor uses Alinco (or worse) magnets (all open-frame and some can motors), pulling the armature out results in a loss of magnetic field strength. This means the motor will not run as well as before. Stronger magnets result in less current drawn (less heat), more torque and power, and lower RPMs - all good things. There are rare earth magnet replacements, especially for open-frame motors, for about $5-$10. If an open-frame motor is in good shape otherwise, installing the rare earth magnets is really a great and inexpensive way to improve and continue to use the motor.
Test a motor before you install it. Hook it up to a DC power pack, and check for reasonable vibration levels and noise being held in your hand. Ideally, you should measure the current with the motor running free. This will give you a baseline to check the installed current draw against. The installed current draw compared with the free gives you an idea of how free running (or not) the gearbox(es) is/are.
A great source of information on the subject is the Repower and Regear Yahoo Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Guys, I have some N scale locos with burned up motors. Some are old, from the 70's and some are newer from the 90's. Bachmann, Atlas, Lifelike. Is there a website I can go to match up replacement parts so I can get these babies rolling again? I am not familiar with the terminology "open frame" and "can" motors. The locos themselves are in good shape and it sucks just having them sit on dead lines. I was hoping I could just go to a site and order the parts I need or should I just take them to the LHS.