Let's talk about Coal Mines

[Kenfolk]

My comments were regarding the mining process.

http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/007/index.html 

 

 

[Anonymous]

I aint seen ugly yet with mountain mining.

Maybe there be a one hell of a gravel haul road somewhere but not ugly.

[TomCat797]

If your really want to "uglify" your layout, try mountaintop mining--very controversial approach to retrieving coal. 

I'd have to disagree,the company I work for spends millions every year on reclamation.

[aav]

         Autobus and Shawnee are right, you don't need huge spaces to model coal loading ops.  Eastern Kentucky is riddled with smaller loaders, past and present.  What i understand there aren't many tipples used today but truck dumps are still pretty frequent.  Often, a branchline would serve many mines but couldn't build an individual track to each and every mine hence the coal would be transported by truck,conveyer,etc. to the loader on the branch.  Sometimes the mines could be a couple miles away from the loader.

          I've seen countless pictures of small to medium type loaders , from crude basic operations to smaller tipple type operations.  These loaders didn't have all sorts of support buildings to go along with them like you see with the larger plant types.  Truck dumps can put out 1 to 30 cars a day,  so a few of these could start wielding some pretty good traffic on a smaller layout.

          There are a million different designs of loaders ,as they were built to accomodate the situation.  I've seen some that might be "similar" but never the same.  I think these make for some interesting kitbashing and scratchbuilding projects .

[majortom]

When I used to haul coal on the Illinois Central from Rend Lake mine, it would take a 12 hour shift (sometimes longer) to load a 100 car train.

[shawnee]

Not a lot of room for a mine?  Model a truck dump!  Some of the truck dumps include several small building/structures, but don't gobble the room of a mine tipple.

Nice thing about the modern age, you don't have to model the mine, just the flood loader...often a couple miles away from the mine connected by conveyors.  Relatively straightforward structure, takes up very little space...works well on a single spur. 

[selector]

Those look great, Tim!

I have heard of "coal washeries".  I suppose if one had the room one could model this part of the operation as well, but perhaps just the mine proper, the basic structures, would have to suffice to get the "point" across for the vast majority of us.

[Free-mo Tim]

 Hello all,

 Here are a few pictures of my friend's coal mine module (using Free-mo standards).

I hope you enjoy them. It looks better "in person" than the pictures show. If you have questions or comments, please post them. 

 

[Autobus Prime]

Folks:

I don't know a whole lot about mining in particular, but I do want to make a comment about size.  I'm not going to say "Size matters not", but when we consider these small mine tipples, small breweries, etc. we should remember that none of us have much space.  My 4 x 8 is 6 acres.  I could fill a quarter of it with my employer's modest factory.  That wouldn't be much fun, but on top of that it would actually be less realistic than a compressed model. Why? It would fill the available "visible world", and that's not the impression a real factory gives.

Because of this, I would rather see a small model railroad equipped with half a dozen highly compressed industries, say 6" x 9", with some breathing room, than half a dozen Walthers-dreambook less-compressed structures of perhaps 9" x 12".  The big blocks make the board look smaller.

The trick, then, was how to make these small structures look big enough, since they're rarely going to be big enough.  This mine structure could be part of an acceptable-looking complex if some of the support structures and scene elements mentioned by others were added - culm banks, locker rooms, perhaps a dirt parking lot, et cetera.  Most important is to keep these other elements in proportion to the small tipple, so the illusion can work properly.

[dr.bones]

hello, my knowledge is highly restricted into what is coal mining, but tha layout is still in my head is based on one that my dad used to manage when i was a child; Canmore Mines, afterwards he became a mines inspector for the province of alberta and often took me on trips to see other mines across the province,   when i go see him he's bound to have a lot of photos somewhere so maybe i'll post some.

The model while it is a an interesting smallish mine seems ok for beginning of the nineteenth century, so   I can only do one thing:

I am also just asking

  but when is your layout period?

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks everyone,

I have about 1 sq ft to work with , but I think That will be enough. Right now I am planning the tipple/sorting house you see, an office, and equipment shed, and a shower room, plus two track service in a diorama.

[C&O Fan]

        C&O ,  looks good,  what materials did you use to construct it?

Thank You

It's built of Strip Wood the roofs are corrugated tin

the coal chutes are from a Walther's coaling tower which were unused

which can be raised or lowered using the bent wire hand cranks

the wood was stained dark mahogany

I built my own because I wanted a wood structure as many of the mines

in the area were built of wood in the 20s and 30s

[Maurice]

I have seen that model sold as a sand and gravel mine as well. 

Remember that their are at least 2 types of coal, bituminous and anthracite. Anthracite is also known as hard coal. Anthracite is mostly in Eastern Pennsylvania. The coal was brought out of the mine and then put through a "breaker" to get it broken up and seperated into the various sizes and cleaned of any contanimant (dirt). In the early part of the 20th century they paid young boys to pick through the coal to get any rocks and such out. Anthracite coal breakers were huge monsters. I believe there is a law that the breaker cannot be directly on the mine. Apparently they had some fires where the breaker caught fire and the miners were trapped. In many cases, the coal was brought to the breaker from several mines owned by the same company. Sometimes it was handled by the narrow gauge mine railroad and for mines further apart the full size railroad handled it. So a breaker could be a loads in/loads out operation. Also there should be a big pile of "tailings" basically the low grade stuff and junk they pick out.

Here is the Huber Breaker in Ashley, PA, no longer in use. They are trying to preserve it as a museum.

 http://www.huberbreaker.org/photos/past/jscupski1.jpg

[TomCat797]

C&O fan very nice work,looks awesome.

[aav]

        C&O ,  looks good,  what materials did you use to construct it?

[C&O Fan]

Here's a few photos of one i scratch built

as you can see the coal comes out of the shaft via small push hoppers and is dumped at the base of the conveyor it's then taken to the top of the tipple

where it goes thru shakers and screens to sort then dispensed into waiting hopper cars

 There's an office/equipment building and a shed for the Jeffery Mine Motor

Still absent is a power supply house and a water retention pond

for water pumped out of the mine shafts

\

 

 

 

[Anonymous]

     Hello, name's Richard B. I live in the heart of coal country'Boone County West Virginia', I can tell you everything you need to know about coal mining. I myself am an experienced deep miner. Your small loadout is just a start, and a pretty nostalgic one"I like it". For the full effect, you would want to incorporate a raw coal in-flow, say from a deep mine, a coal truck dump, or a overland belt nowdays, from a local strip or auger mine. Raw coal is before the coal has been cleaned and processed for market sale. The tipple serves as a cleaning facility, some tipples have an internal train loadout, but nowdays most have a remote loadout, or stand alone. You would need at least 2 sediment holding tanks, or ponds, as you can't dump the coal waste straight into fresh water. You would want a dirty coal stock pile with a belt line running into the tipple. As the coal was cleaned, sized and refined, you would want to send it back outside to a clean coal pile. From the clean coal pile the coal would be pushed by dozer into underground feeders and routed by belt line to your stand alone loadout, or back into the loadout portion of your tipple.

[georgev]

I agree with the other comments that this was originally a European model.  I have a similar one in HO scale, except the tipple section (B and C) has more of a US look.  On my model there are some rails cast into into the base of level D (above those three bays).  Maybe these rails are the coal delivery method. 

My thought is that the coal  or ore comes in on small mine cars (maybe even human powered) and gets side-dumped into the structure on level D.  The incline up to B is a hoist to move the coal to the tipple. The slack and maybe the slate could be dumped in the E bay.. (Must... resist..... bad.. pun...!!!)

There would need to be a power source of some kind to power the hoist, maybe a small boiler house that would send steam to an engine on Level D and pehaps another on level B to move the conveyors in the tipple.   Would need to add some steam exhaust stacks. 

Anyway, that's how I was going to make it work - run a trestle from the mine entrance to the rails on level D, use a few 1968 vintage HOn3 side dump mine cars I have, and plan on one or two cars/day from this mine. 

George V

[simon1966]

Chip here are some images scanned from old postcards of the afore mentioned mine.

Here is all that is left today, basically the remains of the power plant and some ancillary buildings.

and finally my model of same based on the Walthers New River mine kit.

[BlueHillsCPR]

Underground mining is indeed still going on for coal in the Appalachian region. Also, some underground zinc mines are now reopening.

Cool!

If your really want to "uglify" your layout, try mountaintop mining--very controversial approach to retrieving coal.

Agreed. Pit mining, strip mining, hydro mining etc. are not very pretty and in some cases very harmful to the environment. Around here the pit is all we have.  Not sure about other parts of Canada?

My small mine scene is obviously incomplete; I ended up kitbashing an N scale Walthers New River Mine following Jim Kelly's kitbash of the HO version in the April 2005(?) MR...

 

That's a nice scene all the same Dave.

 

[Dave Vollmer]

Chip,

I feel your pain.  My small mine scene is obviously incomplete; I ended up kitbashing an N scale Walthers New River Mine following Jim Kelly's kitbash of the HO version in the April 2005(?) MR...

Two things hopefully help add credibility; I added a mine office (a Hay Brothers Garage Quonset hut) and a mine supervisor (the tall gentleman in the hardhat in front of the hut) and the chain-link fence.  You don't see the start or end of that fence (it disappears into the trees), suggesting the mine property is bigger than it is, and that there are probably other support structures about.

But I'm keenly aware that I have no shower house, no power station, no dynamite shed, no heavy mining equipment, and that the stub-end track arrangement is pretty limited.

Compromises.

[C&O Fan]

Chip

Cute building but it's missing alot to be considered  a coal mine

Take a look at these drawings to see what a real mine looks like

http://www.wva-usa.com/newsite/www.wvrailroads.com/drawings/kaymoor/

 

[Kenfolk]

Are we talking about current mines or mines from a pre-deisel era?  All of the coal mining around here today and for the past several years at least is open pit mining.

 

Underground mining is indeed still going on for coal in the Appalachian region. Also, some underground zinc mines are now reopening.

If your really want to "uglify" your layout, try mountaintop mining--very controversial approach to retrieving coal. 

[secondhandmodeler]

I am curious what you find out about that kit.  I have this one as well.  I believe mine is from the late seventies or early eighties.  I'm guessing this is one of those models that looks neat, but doesn't accurately depict an actual industry.  Kind of like the old brewery that everyone seems to have.  How many breweries have you seen that were that small?  I hope someone has more information on this kit.  If it isn't a form of coal mine, what else could you use this for?

[BlueHillsCPR]

Are we talking about current mines or mines from a pre-deisel era?  All of the coal mining around here today and for the past several years at least is open pit mining.

[simon1966]

Chip, depending on the era, here are some of the other structures that you would find.

1. power plant.  Many mines burned coal to generate electricity and steam for the mine and the surrounding mine community. Frequently with a good size chimney.

2.  Miners shed where the would shower and dress into their below ground clothing.  These were often 2 stories high with open vents in the sides of the top story.  The workers would pull their gear up on cables for drying and security, padlocking the cable suspending the clothing up high.

3.  Mule shed, still for mules or other storage.

4.  Offices and miscellaneous sheds for activities like blacksmith or maintenance activities.

5.  Ventilation shafts (often a significant distance form the main mine head.  Usually also acted as a secondary escape route from below ground. They might even have a structure housing huge ventilation fans.

6.  If it is a shaft mine they would have a mine head super structure as well.

 

This is all based on research I did into the construction of a mine scene modelling a specific Illinois shaft mine at start of the 20th century.

[aav]

            Can't tell you much about the loader you have there.  The easiest thing i can tell you is go to   http://appalachianrailroadmodeling.com    They have alot of info and pictures of various types of loaders from truck dumps to flood loaders and everything in between.  They also have a good ABC's of loaders and ops section which i think is very good. If you haven't been to this site already i think you will find it very informative.

[SS Express]

I have the same model. I have been using it for years as a coal/ore station of sort. I inherited it from my dad when he went HO years ago. He built it originally in the late 60's or early 70's. It's a solid little structure with some nice detail.

 

Rich

[ICRR1964]

I noticed this on several of my old coal mine structures to, I have 3 of them, all AHM structures. The first one is very large and has a good size foot print, has a large uper and lower area, where the coal must be seperated with to unloading areas, its an old wood structure. Another one I have is just like the one in the above photo's. The third one is a skinny upright structure that mounts in front of the tracks and is suppose to have a dump pit, this one is not a mine but a transfer station I would think. It has a chute on the back side and a series of buckets on cables that come up from the front and dump in the bunker, all wood construction, with small brick building attatched.