I locking this thread because (A) it is, for the most part, off topic and (B) most likely going to veer off into some type of political debate before too long (trust me, experience tells me this).
Now, can we get back on the topic of model railroading and try to sprinkle a little sunshine around this place?
Bergie
My favorite thinking is having the utility allow backwards metering and outfit the roof with solar and feed back into the National Grid any unused electricity.
If every home in the USA could do that.. I bet our energy use will drop a bit. And maybe make a dollar to boot.
Falls Valley RR wrote: My wife recently spoke with a family member in Alaska and he indicates he is using about 500 dollars worth of oil montlhy just to stay warm in the winter up there with no break in sight. Im not one of the rich ones either but we have done as much as we could to bunker down and get ready. The good times these last 10 years could not last.
My wife recently spoke with a family member in Alaska and he indicates he is using about 500 dollars worth of oil montlhy just to stay warm in the winter up there with no break in sight. Im not one of the rich ones either but we have done as much as we could to bunker down and get ready. The good times these last 10 years could not last.
This is the reason that I'm glad I'm burning wood. I use wood for about 500$ every two years.
If we are going to see all of these things positive I think this will have a great bonus for train traffic. With the prices rising for individual transportation maybe rail traffic will have renaissance. Here in Sweden pretty much all passenger trains are electrified sot hey are not effected to much by this. There is of course an increase in electricity costs as well but still, trains don't use much.
There is actually a train that runs in northern Sweden that according to a norwegian newspaper article produces as much electricity going downhill as it uses up going back. Now there is the future. It's called the IORE.
Magnus
Cotton Belt's 819 down in Pine Bluff uses Oil waste in the tender. Im not precisely sure of the exact sources of this oil but hearsay indicates that motor oil from local auto shops find it's way to the tender among other items.
Personally I dont have an issue with it at all as long there is physically fuel availible at the gas station.
Okay I will spin this towards trains. Union Pacific's steam locomotives burn oil. Now not sure but I thought Lynn Nystrom was quoted as saying they take the oil from diesels when they change those locomotives oil and then filter it mix it with a little diesel gas and burn it in the steam engines. Not sure if they store it up in Wyoming or how much they have but I would imagine they use whatever oil company is nearyby depending on how far from home they are.
Just to note some contradictions here, there's complaining of oil companies gouging and that's the problem, not supply and demand. Then there's complaining about people driving big vehicles which consume more fuel. If supply and demand is not a problem, then big vehicles shouldn't be a problem. Some of us need those big vehicles for our work.
Considering how it is in other parts of the world, we should be greatful to be talking about how oil prices effect the cost of our little plastic trains. Personnally, that makes me feel lucky. And ,no, i'm not one of the rich ones.....
I recall paying 4.50 for desiel before and after 9-11 at times with no cutback in weekly average mileage. The company I was with kept it rolling. Particularly with the million plus dollar value loads we had at the time. 300 gallons and gone twice a week and the cost be damned.
The real question is what is it going to take to actually hurt the USA and everyone short of physically running out of the stuff. 200 dollar a barrel oil? You tell me.
Now I understand that our Continentail shelf holds promise and with the new Super Deep drilling being developed at sea we might have a shot at actually drilling for and selling at a profit oil that was previously too expensive to get to in our waters.
tatans wrote:I guess I should have stated the $100/bbl statement was in regard to oil prices in the context of fuel for locomotives, (a railroad topic I hope) this must have an enormous impact on railway costs and very soon the price will be passed on to the consumer, however, I cannot really see a giant increase in the cost of a plastic boxcar---just how many boxcars can be made from a barrel of oil???? quite a few I would think. I got jumped on for being off topic, so all you guys with stories about your cats demolishing your layout, watch out, you are being monitored.
Transportation costs are rising faster than passenger vehicle fuel costs. When gas was $3 back in the good old days (a few weeks ago), diesel was $3.50. It's only going to get worse, too.
As for manufacturing, remember that there's a good bit of waste product involved. Test shots, bad copies, sprues, overruns, etc. All that adds up, and trying to cut corners to keep costs down can have an impact on quality.
When I looked at Exxon Mobile's financial statements, I observed that one in three revenue dollars ends up going to the tax collectors. Meanwhile, the hapless shareholders received dividends representing about 7% of total revenue. Exxon Mobile's after tax income of about 10% of sales can not be described as excessive. As noted below, the commodity traders are running up fuel prices. that's true but tax collectors tend to be price gougers, also.
Model railroaders may observe the impact on the protoypes of high fuel costs. Railroads are more fuel efficient than trucks and have increased market share with intermodal business. Also, railroads are hauling more coal and ethanol. Locomotives are designed to be more fuel efficient, too, and there are currently hybrid locomotives out there.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Hmmmmm,
Guess my layout and I are living happily in the past.As steam powered trains roll about, the local gas staion is advertsing 21 cents per gallon for Ethyl.
Larry' New and Used cars has a couple of used Ford sedans for $300 and $400 and a brand new Chevrolet for $1695.
And I am STILL driving my 1968 Ford Mustang Coupe hardtop I bought used in 1970 for $1695.
Let's see, I can remember filling it and my previous 1967 Mustang GT fastback up with gas, and being able to have enough to buy a hamburger , fries and a coke with the change left over from my gas purchase, and I only had $5 to start with!
Those really were "HAPPY DAYS!!!"
TheK4Kid
I have some experience with the variety of larger vehicles. Those that are accepting of different fuels, programmed to shut down cylinders and possibly coupled to electric drives do quite well.
The United States is a large Nation that requires big cars. The road I drive on is built in the 60's and has not yet been rebuilt to modern standards. Because of this I see many cracked windshields, viberation damage and various problems related to worn out front ends and poor power output from engines too small to withstand the commute.
The cars I rarely see are those with big V6, V8 or Desiel (Particularly Cummins...) and all around large construction with robust suspensions etc.
What I dont accept is the Trucking running 5 miles to the gallon 20 years ago, still running 6 or 7 miles to the gallon today and having to run a 500 horse engine to turn a 3 pound compressor to stay cool in the summer night burning 3-5 gallons overnight. I see that some truck stops have equippted shore power to provide the trucker with a engine off environment but usually it is the driver that has to take it out of his pay. Not the company.
Finally one posted a comment about us being a throwaway society. Consider the Cadillac Motor Company. They make fine vehicles. But I see them get processed for resale at prices 5% of retail because they are junk. 50,000 dollar American Luxury reduced in a year or two; to something that fetches perhaps 5 grand on the used market and carry a variety of serious problems. Just replacing a key set on one is two paychecks for some people.
tstage wrote: *** Moderator interjection and reminder ***TOM's point is a legitimate one. Can we keep this topic train-related somehow? Perhaps, discuss how this might affect the pricing of new products that will be coming out.And, may I also kindly remind you to please keep these discussions civil and cordial amongst yourselves so that it doesn't get out of hand. (With a topic like this, the potential is there.)Thank you for your consideration.Tom
*** Moderator interjection and reminder ***
TOM's point is a legitimate one. Can we keep this topic train-related somehow? Perhaps, discuss how this might affect the pricing of new products that will be coming out.
And, may I also kindly remind you to please keep these discussions civil and cordial amongst yourselves so that it doesn't get out of hand. (With a topic like this, the potential is there.)
Thank you for your consideration.
Tom
I see Selector broke your rules. Are you going to "Lock" him out of this thread?
I suspect the biggest impact on train model costs will be the increased cost of shipping. Our models don't have that much plastic in them so that increase should be small. Of course the bigger impact is on the economy and how much discretionary income do we have left to buy models.
Paul
selector wrote: And just this week GM announces that they have decided to cancel their plans to produce a V-8. Wow. Good call, fellas! Better 7 years late than never.
And just this week GM announces that they have decided to cancel their plans to produce a V-8. Wow. Good call, fellas! Better 7 years late than never.
Crandell, I agree with you 100 %.
I pull into a parking space at some store in my 35mpg Civic and the space in front of me is occupied by a HUGE vehicle whose grill and hood block out any view of the sky from my position. It's a V8 monster of a car that seats 8, at least, and it probably carries 1 or 2 people 90 percent of the time. Then I realize it's my daughters and I remember it gets about 14 miles to the gallon. Her argument is, Dad.. I can afford it and it's safer.
Experts have said that Americans, and this probably goes for all North Americans, won't really change their ways til fuel is $5 a gallon.
Jarrell
Keeping topical
Cost of living: UP
Less money for LHS
Cost to make plastic products:UP
Cost of manufacturing: UP
Cost to run LHS due to heat, lighting, etc: UP
It's all UPs fault! Priceless!
Seriously though this has been a long time coming and like all the storms before we will ride it out, bear and grin or whatever. We as MR'rs will over come even if it means going back to the "Old Ways" of scratch building, paper mache, etc.
Just my with 13% GST and everything else
Fergie
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=5959
If one could roll back the hands of time... They would be waiting for the next train into the future. A. H. Francey 1921-2007
We are an avaricious and self-absorbed population, we N. Americans. We throw stuff out that 5/6 of the world's population can only dream about.
Today I hoisted a three gallon plastic pail of cat litter out of our trunk when my wife returned from shopping. It must have weighed 30 lbs. (Not our cats...adult daughter's who has returned to stay for a period). Now, how much fuel do you suppose it took to provide me (my daughter) will that pail...all the way from wherever it came from? Thirty pounds in a plastic tub!
We drive a Corolla. Thank goodness I had the foresight to trade in our Tundra last summer because that little car is about to become much more expensive to drive.
We have no idea. I seriously feel that we just don't get it.
This is somewhat relevant to our hobby, but hobbies enrich our lives only so far. There are other far more important costs to living well. I'd say transportation is one of them, and not just for cat litter.
It has great revelance to trains.
I used to drive to the hobby shop for pleasure. Jump in the car and go. Now I only stop by one of the local stores if Im already in the area on other business or medical needs that require me to be there.
What happens when my gross wages for the DAY's work no longer covers the gas for the commute?
Sure I can get out the credit card and charge it... but that would be stupid.
The Old Man wrote:I'm a newbie, but this is in this forum because?
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
The gas cost to me is irrevelant.
I will probably be able to withstand 12.00 gallon gasoline before being forced to make changes or cut back on vehicle and weekly mileage.
We have carefully selected employment extremly close to home and can use a bike if necessary.
10 years ago I would have laughed at the idea of 100 dollar oil. But back then it was 15.00 and would have been a very profitable investment.
The best way is to create electric cars of some quality and same for big rigs and trains. Removing the USA from reliance on oil except for plastics and other necessary products is necessary.
However, if the gasoline prices get much higher.. say 6.00 gallon it's probably going to break the people.
Which makes it very apropos that Atlas sent their email announcement about prices increasing due to the rising costs of petroleum, shipping, etc. I'm sure the other manufacturers will be following suit. Where it stops, nobody knows.
I can bide my time and bargain shop for model rr items, but skyrocketing gas and food prices are impossible to avoid.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Two obvious railroading/oil price ties are-1) the cost of plastics produced from oils and 2) shipping fuels, whether it be gasoline, deisel or jet fuel it takes alot of oil to transfer that peice of track or that loco from the manufacturing plant to the distrubution warehouse to the shipper's terminal to your door or your LHS. Also, the employees involved in just the shipping process are probably paying about the same in increased fuel costs to get to work and back home.
I think the point is as I see, is the cost of oil is driving the prices. All over and over. The poor manufactures and buying public are being driven to make choices, like a new engine or not, but it may get to the point of hobby or not. The whole world is crazy, except of course model railroaders...........
Merry new WHAT????????????
tatans wrote:It finally made it, how are the profits??? I just bought gas today $1.17 per litre (what's that @ $11.00 a gallon ? ) How ridiculous is this? you can just keep charging as much as you want, and life goes on. How soon will it be $2.00 per litre? then $7.00 ?? --sooner than you think. I guess it's no more insane than paying $450,000.00 for a 60 year old 900 sq.ft house, but people are still doing it, so I guess that $1350.00 brass locomotive doesn't look so bad now does it? I worked in the oil patch when oil was $6.00 a barrel and the profits then were obscene, imagine now.
Here in Sweden we have been paying almost two bucks for years now! It's mostly taxes though as is anything else in this country!
About trains, in the real world I think this will help things like Amtrak.
On the model front, we will see prices increase on petroleum based products, like plastic buildings and such. Even though the cost of the materials might not be much they do ad up. And when they are going to sell it they can't just cell it for 10 cents more because that is the increase in cost, that will be more like 50 cents or a dollar.