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Have you used Envirotex lite for water

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Have you used Envirotex lite for water
Posted by da_kraut on Saturday, December 22, 2007 5:32 PM

Hello everybody,

just wondering if anybody has any experience using Envirotex lite for creating water?

Here is a website http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayProductPage?productNum=gc0511

Merry Christmas everybody

Frank 

"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
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Posted by bogp40 on Saturday, December 22, 2007 5:46 PM
It is actually the best product I found for doing water. It will find perfect level and must be dammed well as not to leak. Use of a hair drier on real low temp or breathing on the pour will help the trapped air bubbles to disapate. Because of the glass like finish, any wave, ripple, foaming and other water effects are better done on the cured surface with gloss medium. Many have had success in coloring the product with acrylics or dyes. I will generally pour on an already plastered, painted and sceniced base/ bed.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K. 

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Posted by howmus on Saturday, December 22, 2007 6:40 PM
I agree completely with bogp40.  It also has the advantage of drying to a very hard finish and so doesn't become a magnet for dust that will stick to the surface.  I have used the WS stuff that is made to do waterfalls to create ripples and other water effects.  I just brush it on after the Envirotex is completely cured.
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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Saturday, December 22, 2007 6:55 PM

Be forwarned it stinks to high heaven as it cures.  I recommend some serious ventilation.

Scenic Express sells a series of dyes which mix well with environtex.  www.scenicexpress.com

You really can't shape waves into it that easily.  So you'll want to use Woodland scenics water effects or Gloss Medium as a topper for waves.

While the environtex cures, it will form bubbles.  There are two ways to get rid of them.  Skewer or blowing on them.  (I heard people recommend a hair dryer so you don't turn green inhaling the fumes.)

It runs quite easily.  So make sure all cracks are sealed up properly.  Or you may have a waterfall in your lake!

Disclaimer: This message is purely from what I've read from Kalmbach publishing as well as several of their videos, and individual web postings from people who have.  But I have seen the results first hand, and am impressed.

 

 

Don H-Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

 

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Posted by howmus on Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:08 PM
 DigitalGriffin wrote:

I recommend some serious ventilation.

While the environtex cures, it will form bubbles.  There are two ways to get rid of them.  Skewer or blowing on them.  (I heard people recommend a hair dryer so you don't turn green inhaling the fumes.)

 

It actually doesn't smell so bad, it is that breathing the fumes which can be very not good for you is not a good idea.  Yes use good ventilation and leave the room for a while.  I have never had any problems with bubbles staying in the resin after it is dry.  Some bubbles will form early on but will disappear before it dries.  The directions say to use a hairdryer or propane torch (try not to burn your house down, please!) or to blow across the resin as it sets until the bubbles pop.  It is the carbon dioxide that breaks the bubbles not the movement of the air.  I have some setting right now down cellar on a cross that will be a Christmas Present for my sister.  That's one reason that I am upstairs playing with the computer......... 

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Posted by jfugate on Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:08 PM

Yep, done envirotex water. Here's a photo:


(Click image to enlarge)

I explain in detail how I did this water here.

Basically, I did three pours of envirotex, putting dye in each layer. Envirotex sets up perfectly flat, which isn't realistic for most water, so I added a layer of acrylic gloss gel on top that I put on with a paintbrush and stipled in place in a ripple pattern. You can see the result in the photo above, and read all about how I did at the link above. 

 

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by Railphotog on Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:15 PM
 DigitalGriffin wrote:

Be forwarned it stinks to high heaven as it cures.  I recommend some serious ventilation.

Envirotex DOES NOT SMELL when curing.  A slight musty smell is all that comes from it.  Other acrylic liquids in which you mix a little hardener with a lot of resin do smell.

 

 

Bob Boudreau

CANADA

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:41 PM
This stuff is really good and a nice finished product on your layout. I loved the end results on my layout. It does not smell either as one stated.
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Posted by Chartiers on Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:45 PM

I just finished doing a creek on the layout and can agree that Envirotex does not smell bad.  I found a place on the Internet that had 16oz of the stuff on sale for $7.10.  I used it before and found that a quick swipe with a blow torch took out all of the air bubbles.  Use caution with the torch of course.

This time I did read the instructions and followed the suggestion to cover the pour for the first 6 or 7 hours so dust would not stick to the surface.  I placed a layer of scrap cardboard a few inches above the surface for that time.

There is nothing magical about the dyes that Scenic Express sells "explicitly for Envirotex" - not true since they are from Castin Craft.  I questioned customer service at Scenic Express about this.  I ended up not using the dyes since the coloring on the creek bed was enough in my case. 

You do great work Joe and I followed your lead and placed some gloss gel medium on the surface one it hardened to create some ripples and the sense of movement.  I think it came out pretty good.  The medium on the surface seems to scratch easily and I think it will be necessary to reapply a light coat when needed over time. Even added a touch of white on the ripples where it goes around rocks and abutments.

All I need to do is touch up the edges of the creek and add a little foliage to cover-up the creep from the pour.

 

 

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Posted by PASMITH on Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:48 PM
 February Man wrote:
This stuff is really good and a nice finished product on your layout. I loved the end results on my layout. It does not smell either as one stated.
I

I agree. I use Envirotex because of the consistent results. I have never ruined any scene using this product.

Peter Smith, Memphis
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Posted by C&O Fan on Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:56 PM

Yep Great Stuff

I used some acrilic paint also found at Michaels to color the pond green

Check out Joe's "How to" posted above

Good instructions !

 

TerryinTexas See My Layout Here Terry's C&O Layout*

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

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Posted by ham99 on Saturday, December 22, 2007 10:27 PM
Environtex Lite does not have the odor problem; straight Environtex does.  That is what the Lite stands for -- no odor.  Limit pours to around 1/8" and build up thickness as needed.  I use food colors to dye it a light blue/green.  It does self-level, but I have found that by using the fiberglass aquarium filter pad material dipped in it, I can build ripples downstream from rocks, trees, etc.  For a waterfall, I attached angel hair to the top of the falls and let the Environtex run down the angel hair to produce falling water.  If you don't mix the two parts thoroughly, it may remain sticky -- another pour mixed properly and applied over it will take care of the problem.  If the streambed is painted properly, you won't need [or want] much color in the Environtex.  Want fish in your stream?  For N scale, I cut curved slivers from a round toothpick, painted them silver, dipped them in AC and applied them to the surface of the water before the final pour.  Everyone thinks they look very realistic, even though they have to use a flashlight to find them.
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Posted by R. T. POTEET on Sunday, December 23, 2007 1:08 AM

I have used straight Envirotex for many years but awhile back I decided to give this Envirotex Lite a shake; it was so light I found that every time I tried to use it by the next morning my rivers were flowing across my ceiling!!!

From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:33 AM

I've used regular Envirotex for water, but nowadays prefer water-based High Gloss Urethane over painted Durabond patching plaster.  The finish is extremely tough, even with 3-d waves and whitecaps, and I often take layout photos with the camera sitting right on the "water", with no scratching or breaking of detail.  Easy to do, and inexpensive too, with no odour.

Wayne

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Posted by PASMITH on Sunday, December 23, 2007 11:11 AM
Envirotex for my log pond.

Peter Smith, Memphis


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Posted by da_kraut on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:47 PM

Hello again,

and thank you everybody for replying to my question.  It is amazing to see the amount of truly great model railroading that is going on here by the members of this forum.  

Frank 

"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
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Posted by concretelackey on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:43 PM

After looking at Joe's pic higher in this thread it appears as though his stream dead-ends at the edge of the layout. Someone said to limit each layer to 1/8" or 1/4" layers yet Joe's pic appears to be thicker. Does this stuff laminate to itself so well that an edge veiw shows no layering?

Ken aka "CL" "TIS QUITE EASY TO SCREW CONCRETE UP BUT TIS DARN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO UNSCREW IT"
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Posted by BlueHillsCPR on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:40 PM

Joe mentioned doing his water in "three pours" so one would assume that the stuff can layer over without noticeable layers.

Check out Joe's website for some really great information on water and scenery in general.  The guy is very good at what he is doing. Thumbs Up [tup]

Joe's Site 

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Posted by dale8chevyss on Friday, March 14, 2008 9:10 PM
 da_kraut wrote:

Hello everybody,

just wondering if anybody has any experience using Envirotex lite for creating water?

Here is a website http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayProductPage?productNum=gc0511

Merry Christmas everybody

Frank 

 

Here is a problem I'm having with my Envirotex.  I'm fairly certain I followed the instructions right and mixed it correctly, however, I applied it (less than 1/8 of an inch) over 48 hours ago, and while it is bubble free and clear, it is not hard yet.  The temp of the surrounding climate is probably 60 degrees.   I noticed online from envirotex.com that it should dry hard in that temperature in 72 hours max.  Am I to be concerened that this is not hardening yet or should I just wait it out?

Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.

 

Daniel "always learning" G.

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Posted by howmus on Friday, March 14, 2008 9:21 PM
 dale8chevyss wrote:

Here is a problem I'm having with my Envirotex.  I'm fairly certain I followed the instructions right and mixed it correctly, however, I applied it (less than 1/8 of an inch) over 48 hours ago, and while it is bubble free and clear, it is not hard yet.  The temp of the surrounding climate is probably 60 degrees.   I noticed online from envirotex.com that it should dry hard in that temperature in 72 hours max.  Am I to be concerened that this is not hardening yet or should I just wait it out?

Just relax and sit it out for another day.........  (lets see 72 - 48 =   ah, Hmmmm)  Yep, give it some more time.  If you mixed it properly and pour it correctly it will harden up for you.   

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Posted by dale8chevyss on Friday, March 14, 2008 9:58 PM
 howmus wrote:
 dale8chevyss wrote:

Here is a problem I'm having with my Envirotex.  I'm fairly certain I followed the instructions right and mixed it correctly, however, I applied it (less than 1/8 of an inch) over 48 hours ago, and while it is bubble free and clear, it is not hard yet.  The temp of the surrounding climate is probably 60 degrees.   I noticed online from envirotex.com that it should dry hard in that temperature in 72 hours max.  Am I to be concerened that this is not hardening yet or should I just wait it out?

Just relax and sit it out for another day.........  (lets see 72 - 48 =   ah, Hmmmm)  Yep, give it some more time.  If you mixed it properly and pour it correctly it will harden up for you.   

 

Yes you are probably correct; I am just concerned about it.  I'll have to be patient (NOT what I'm good at) and wait it out.  Thanks 

Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.

 

Daniel "always learning" G.

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Posted by jfugate on Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:36 AM

Mixing Envirotex vigorously is important, even though it introduces a lot of air bubbles. Then pour it and wait it out, 3-5 days if necessary. Amazingly, blowing gently on the Envirotex when it is first poured will eliminate the air bubbles.

In the photo I showed earlier, it took three pours over a couple of weeks to get the complete thickness I wanted for the "fish pond" area of King Creek. And yes, the layers don't show on the edge at the layout fascia. I used a few layers of ordinary masking tape as a dam, and that creates a slighty rough texture to the edge, so the 3 layered pour doesn't show. 

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:39 AM
I used Enviortex for my rivers and I have determined that there is no better way to make the most realistic looking rivers.  Thank god for Enviortex Lite!!
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Posted by dale8chevyss on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:24 AM
 howmus wrote:
 dale8chevyss wrote:

Here is a problem I'm having with my Envirotex.  I'm fairly certain I followed the instructions right and mixed it correctly, however, I applied it (less than 1/8 of an inch) over 48 hours ago, and while it is bubble free and clear, it is not hard yet.  The temp of the surrounding climate is probably 60 degrees.   I noticed online from envirotex.com that it should dry hard in that temperature in 72 hours max.  Am I to be concerened that this is not hardening yet or should I just wait it out?

Just relax and sit it out for another day.........  (lets see 72 - 48 =   ah, Hmmmm)  Yep, give it some more time.  If you mixed it properly and pour it correctly it will harden up for you.   

 

It's been a week and no change, still the same consistency as when I poured it.  Any thought of concern or does it need about a week and a half or so?  Or should I remove it at this point and start over? 

Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.

 

Daniel "always learning" G.

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Posted by jfugate on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 11:25 AM

Yes you have a problem ... you didn't put enough hardner in and/or didn't mix the two together thoroughly -- or the stuff's gone bad on you. If you can remove it, you need to.

It is *critical* you mix equal parts of hardner and resin. I recommend you get yourself some cheap clear plastic cups, set them down side-by-side and pour out equal parts of the hardner and resin. 

Next, pour the resin into the hardner cup and mix vigorously for several minutes. Don't worry about introducing air bubbles, etc -- it's more important that you get the two parts mixed together *extremely well.*

Just to be safe, I'd also recommend you do a test pour on a piece of scrap somewhere before you try to pour it on the layout again. Follow the directions as outlined above and see if the stuff sets up this time. If not you have a bad batch and you need to get a fresh package of envirotex. 

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by saronaterry on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:44 PM

Sign - Ditto [#ditto] what Joe said.I only use envirotex lite for my water, 6 different pours at this point. Never had a problem setting up overnite.When I mix it, I pour some out of the resin bottle into the mixing container,mark the level on the bottle with a sharpie and pour out a similar amount into the mixing container from the hardener bottle. I use a plastic beer cup, like you get at keg parties.Mix the livin' h.....ll out of it(2-3 minutes). I use a wooden kabob skewer. The bubbles disappear when you breathe on it. The directions say something about that ,too.I've used 31/2 packages so far.You might have got a bad batch, but it sounds like not the same amount of hardener to me.

 

My My 2 cents [2c].Hope this helps!

Terry

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Posted by dale8chevyss on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 5:18 PM

Well the product is not that old (just got it from the store a week ago) unless it had a long shelf life to begin with.  I have not had a problem with the air bubbles, they went away, just problems with it setting up.

 

I'll remove it (pain in the .....) and try again.  I also used plastic beer cups to do my pouring.  

 

Thanks for the help.  Perhaps the second time will do it.   

Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.

 

Daniel "always learning" G.

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Posted by saronaterry on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 5:34 PM

Daniel, hate to sound repetative, but make sure you get equal amounts of resin and hardener. The reason I use the "mark the bottle " method is in case some of the product sticks/stays in the measuring container.That way there is no measuring container, only a mixing one.By pouring the resin first and setting the bottle down next to the hardener bottle, you can pre-mark the 2nd bottle.

I love the stuff, but I've also already made the mistakes for you.Big Smile [:D]

Good luck and keep us informed!

Terry

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Posted by dale8chevyss on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:43 PM

I think that is what was my problem.  I tried putting equal lines on two different cups and pouring the resin and the hardener into seperate cups then mixing together in a third cup.  Since the stuff is like molasses, neither emptied completley into the mixing cup.  I understand the rigorous mixing process; I was able to get lots of air bubbles this way. 

 

I guess that's what learning is for right?  I'm glad I got the large kit for a small area. I was afraid of something like this.... 

Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.

 

Daniel "always learning" G.

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Posted by dale8chevyss on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:47 PM

So here is what I did.  I removed the old envirotex (which I Found out was mostly hardener and no resin after looking at the bottles- go figure) and mixed an even amount so now the bottles are equal when placing them side by side.  I also noticed a significant difference when pouring; the air bubbles are more frequent and more vigorous, they also dissapear better when blowing on them.  The first pour (which was mostly hardener and not much resin, I mean not much AT ALL) the bubbles did not want to go away and I had to eliminate them with a toothpick.  This pour already looks more promising and I hope I am right in what I did. I followed everyone's tips and re read the directions and did it again.  Only time will tell.

 

In the words of Bill Engval, Here's my sign.   

Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.

 

Daniel "always learning" G.

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