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Biggest loco?

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Biggest loco?
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:53 PM
Be good, don't fight![:D][:)][8D][;)][:o)][(-D]
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Posted by AggroJones on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:03 PM
The Big Boy wins from a combo of length, height, and weight. He is overall the biggest.

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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:40 PM
Little known fact that during the early 50's the Russians decided to claim the "Worlds Largest Locomotive" title by building the nuclear powered "Big Joe" a 4-12-12-12-12-0 monster built in super secret isolation at a secret military base located on the frozen Siberian tundra. Once completed, it was rolled out of the trainshed onto the tracks only to realize that it was too big to go through tunnels and too long for any curves, and while they were figuring out what to next, the heat from the nuclear reactor melted the permafrost under the engine, where upon it crashed thru the rails, the crews leaping from the two-story control cab, sinking under its own ocean liner wieght, thru the permafrost to the center of the Earth, never to be seen again....

All records were destroyed to prevent word of this huge embarasment from reaching Western ears, the crews and builders were dispatched to the gulag's were they were put to work perfecting the Trabant automobile. The accounts are only now coming to light as the old timers who survived the gulag's recount the story to thier great grandchildren on cold Russian winter nights...they tell them, if you put your ear to the ground, you can still hear the whistle bellowing deep under the Earth...

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:05 PM
Not being nasty, just don't care.
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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:12 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Little known fact that during the early 50's the Russians decided to claim the "Worlds Largest Locomotive" title by building the nuclear powered "Big Joe" a 4-12-12-12-12-0 monster built in super secret isolation at a secret military base located on the frozen Siberian tundra. Once completed, it was rolled out of the trainshed onto the tracks only to realize that it was too big to go through tunnels and too long for any curves, and while they were figuring out what to next, the heat from the nuclear reactor melted the permafrost under the engine, where upon it crashed thru the rails, the crews leaping from the two-story control cab, sinking under its own ocean liner wieght, thru the permafrost to the center of the Earth, never to be seen again....

All records were destroyed to prevent word of this huge embarasment from reaching Western ears, the crews and builders were dispatched to the gulag's were they were put to work perfecting the Trabant automobile. The accounts are only now coming to light as the old timers who survived the gulag's recount the story to thier great grandchildren on cold Russian winter nights...they tell them, if you put your ear to the ground, you can still hear the whistle bellowing deep under the Earth...



BRAVO!!!!...... Now that's an answer, and it isn't even April yet.[:D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:34 PM
and yet truth can be stranger than fiction

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/quadruplex/quadrapl.htm

there is another russian loco that was a 4-14-2 so there.

neil.

and give it a rest with blasted big bous and alleghenies. there are much more interesting things out there guys
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:39 PM
eeek! it has moved!

i hope it will come back soon - it was a really cool page [:(]
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:12 PM
I voted for Big Boy, but I know Yellowstones were heavier (at least NPs were). neilmunck, I 've seen something like your 4-14-2 in a book, only I saw a 4-14-4. It said it was the longest rigid frame steam locomotive ever built.
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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:22 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by neilmunck

and yet truth can be stranger than fiction

there is another russian loco that was a 4-14-2 so there.

neil.



Yes, And it too was a huge failure.

It had a very nasty habit of trying to straighten out every curve it was on...

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:58 PM
Here are all the specs of the largest US steam locomotives ever:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/largest.html

There were many "largest" steam locomotives.

As for diesels, the double diesels of the UP reigned.

http://www.worldrailfans.org/Articles/US/DoubleDiesels.shtml

Then there were the turbines:

http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/history/loco/locohs05.shtml

etc

Warren
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:00 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Little known fact that during the early 50's the Russians decided to claim the "Worlds Largest Locomotive" title by building the nuclear powered "Big Joe" a 4-12-12-12-12-0 monster built in super secret isolation at a secret military base located on the frozen Siberian tundra. Once completed, it was rolled out of the trainshed onto the tracks only to realize that it was too big to go through tunnels and too long for any curves, and while they were figuring out what to next, the heat from the nuclear reactor melted the permafrost under the engine, where upon it crashed thru the rails, the crews leaping from the two-story control cab, sinking under its own ocean liner wieght, thru the permafrost to the center of the Earth, never to be seen again....

All records were destroyed to prevent word of this huge embarasment from reaching Western ears, the crews and builders were dispatched to the gulag's were they were put to work perfecting the Trabant automobile. The accounts are only now coming to light as the old timers who survived the gulag's recount the story to thier great grandchildren on cold Russian winter nights...they tell them, if you put your ear to the ground, you can still hear the whistle bellowing deep under the Earth...



BRAVO!!!!...... Now that's an answer, and it isn't even April yet.[:D]


Was this developed for the mountains or was it just Plain Loco
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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:44 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Little known fact that during the early 50's the Russians decided to claim the "Worlds Largest Locomotive" title by building the nuclear powered "Big Joe" a 4-12-12-12-12-0 monster built in super secret isolation at a secret military base located on the frozen Siberian tundra. Once completed, it was rolled out of the trainshed onto the tracks only to realize that it was too big to go through tunnels and too long for any curves, and while they were figuring out what to next, the heat from the nuclear reactor melted the permafrost under the engine, where upon it crashed thru the rails, the crews leaping from the two-story control cab, sinking under its own ocean liner wieght, thru the permafrost to the center of the Earth, never to be seen again....

All records were destroyed to prevent word of this huge embarasment from reaching Western ears, the crews and builders were dispatched to the gulag's were they were put to work perfecting the Trabant automobile. The accounts are only now coming to light as the old timers who survived the gulag's recount the story to thier great grandchildren on cold Russian winter nights...they tell them, if you put your ear to the ground, you can still hear the whistle bellowing deep under the Earth...



BRAVO!!!!...... Now that's an answer, and it isn't even April yet.[:D]


Was this developed for the mountains or was it just Plain Loco


Weeelllllll [:)], supposedly it was intended for the the Moscow to Vladivostok Trans-Siberian run. the idea was to eliminate the need to stop for water or fuel so the train would run non-stop pulling trains up to ten-miles long. [:p]

The "Big Joe's" were apparently quite Amazing sight to behold. [:0]

Imagine the largest articulated locomotive you've ever seen. A 4-12-12-0 in a cab-forward designation. The forward cab was 2 levels and looked more like a jet plane than a steam loco. Now take a second section 0-12-12-0 articulated with a secondary crew cab at the rear. Now imagine, straddling between these two monsters, pivoted mid-way of one of the articutaled portions like a large square steel boiler section of a Bayers-Garret, looking much like a huge transformer, the Reactor Core, whose nuclear heart was the the boilers heating source. To feed these steam monsters 3 huge water tenders trailing behind.

Of course no one knows just how heavy this beast was, but the fact that it essentially crashed thru the rails and sank under its own weight testifies that it never have lasted past its first bridge![;)]

Oh Well that was Stalinism at its best! It didnt matter if it was an completely insane idea. If Joe Baby ordered it, they did it! no matter how crazy![:D]


EEEEEEEEEEEEE XXXXXXXXXXX EEEEEEEEEEEE
ooOOOOOO-OOOOOO XXXXX OOOOOO-OOOOOO

[:D][:p][:D][:p][:D][;)]

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Posted by Morpar on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 11:22 PM
I don't know what you've been smoking, but I don't think it was coal or oil based!!! Got to admit though, the idea does sound interesting to model....

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 11:28 PM
Congratulations Mr. Smith, I am pleased to present you with your degree in Russian Railroading. Your treatise on the Big Joe was superb, and you have truly earned the title Doctor ......

and we all know what PhD stands for. [:D]
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Posted by Sperandeo on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:25 AM
Is a poll the right way to determine which was the biggest steam engine? It's not a matter of opinion, after all, but one of measurement. At a football game they check for first downs with a chain, not by asking what the fans think.

In MODEL RAILROADER we usually cite the Big Boy as the biggest steam engine, because it is (almost). If you add up its length, width, and height you get a bigger number than for any other locomotive (except one). This doesn't take weight into account – that would be the "heaviest" instead of the biggest – or drawbar pull or horsepower – that would be the "most powerful." "Big" has a specific meaning related to size, and editors usually like to be careful with the meanings of words.

But there is one engine that beats the Big Boy! It's not one of those listed in the poll either. The Pennsylvania RR SI duplex-drive 6-4-4-6 adds up to be bigger than the Big Boy when you take the measurements over its streamlined shrouding into account.

Most folks don't recognize this fact about the S1, maybe because the shrouding, particularly at the rear of the tender, can be seen as just so much cosmetic dressing, whereas the Big Boy is all locomotive. There's also the point that the S1 was an experiment not found successful enough to warrant duplication, while the Big Boy was built in at least a small quantity and re-ordered after being in use.

But those are matters of opinion or functionality, not sheer size. Like it or not, the biggest locomotive was really the S1.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine

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Posted by vsmith on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:46 AM
The S1 and the T1 were without a doubt the most Stylish and best looking loco's ever built.

But as for best'est biggest US loco (not counting the Rusky "Big Joe") I'll throw in my hat for the Big Boy.

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Posted by vsmith on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:56 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Morpar

I don't know what you've been smoking, but I don't think it was coal or oil based!!! Got to admit though, the idea does sound interesting to model....


I didn't smoke anything...I'm just relating a story told to me by the Grandfather of a gal I knew in College. He was into trains and knew I liked trains and told me the tale of the "Big Joe" , he always did so in very hushed tones while looking around as if the KGB was still listening........[;)]

I would love to model this beasty too, but I'm afraid the costs of the drivetrains alone would bankrupt me...[:D]

Not to mention that it would need some very WIDE curves...[:p]

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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:24 AM
Maybe part of the "mystique" surrounding the big boy was actually created by UP's P.R. department, back in those kinder gentler times. Even if it wasn't statistically the largest, its FAME might have been, which may be why there are so many "believers" today. Those 2 extra little wheels didn't hurt the story either, and make it easy for those not well versed in railroading to jump to the conclusion that the big boy was king.

I liked Andy's comment about the poll not really being of much value, but the discussion was good, and the stats on the link provided by warrenjbell were very interesting. Oh, and of course the humor of "Dr. Smith".[:D]

P.S. Morpar, IT WAS

LOCO WEED

of course.[swg][(-D][(-D][(-D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 25, 2004 12:29 AM
I think union pacific Big boy biggest than other locomotive
so huge engine ! and powerful
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Posted by AggroJones on Monday, January 26, 2004 1:32 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sperandeo

Is a poll the right way to determine which was the biggest steam engine? It's not a matter of opinion, after all, but one of measurement. At a football game they check for first downs with a chain, not by asking what the fans think.

In MODEL RAILROADER we usually cite the Big Boy as the biggest steam engine, because it is (almost). If you add up its length, width, and height you get a bigger number than for any other locomotive (except one). This doesn't take weight into account – that would be the "heaviest" instead of the biggest – or drawbar pull or horsepower – that would be the "most powerful." "Big" has a specific meaning related to size, and editors usually like to be careful with the meanings of words.

But there is one engine that beats the Big Boy! It's not one of those listed in the poll either. The Pennsylvania RR SI duplex-drive 6-4-4-6 adds up to be bigger than the Big Boy when you take the measurements over its streamlined shrouding into account.

Most folks don't recognize this fact about the S1, maybe because the shrouding, particularly at the rear of the tender, can be seen as just so much cosmetic dressing, whereas the Big Boy is all locomotive. There's also the point that the S1 was an experiment not found successful enough to warrant duplication, while the Big Boy was built in at least a small quantity and re-ordered after being in use.

But those are matters of opinion or functionality, not sheer size. Like it or not, the biggest locomotive was really the S1.

So long,

Andy



The PRR 6-4-4-6 may have been a little longer than the Big Boy, but that is just length .This is about biggest steam locomotive. There should be some kind of mathematical equation to determine what was truly the "biggest". Like--

Weight + Length + Boiler girth= "biggness" [^]

"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 26, 2004 5:03 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Little known fact that during the early 50's the Russians decided to claim the "Worlds Largest Locomotive" title by building the nuclear powered "Big Joe" a 4-12-12-12-12-0 monster built in super secret isolation at a secret military base located on the frozen Siberian tundra. Once completed, it was rolled out of the trainshed onto the tracks only to realize that it was too big to go through tunnels and too long for any curves, and while they were figuring out what to next, the heat from the nuclear reactor melted the permafrost under the engine, where upon it crashed thru the rails, the crews leaping from the two-story control cab, sinking under its own ocean liner wieght, thru the permafrost to the center of the Earth, never to be seen again....

All records were destroyed to prevent word of this huge embarasment from reaching Western ears, the crews and builders were dispatched to the gulag's were they were put to work perfecting the Trabant automobile. The accounts are only now coming to light as the old timers who survived the gulag's recount the story to thier great grandchildren on cold Russian winter nights...they tell them, if you put your ear to the ground, you can still hear the whistle bellowing deep under the Earth...


Great story - is it real... The Soviets were known for building big stuff - look at the Typhoon class SSBNs as an example. This story's almost crazy enough to be believable! There was certainly a similarity between their reactors and a Trabant - both were cheap, nasty, and given to breaking down unpredictably...

Back to reality: I think the biggest locos ever to run here in the UK were a small number of Beyer-Garrett articulated locos - the LMS used them on heavy freight work and as bankers (helpers). Now, the biggest is probably the Class 66 - based on an EMD SD, but shrunken to fit into UK loading gauge.
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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:30 AM
Hello Railroading Brit,

I could tell you the truth about the "Big Joe", but then I'd have to kill you.....[;)]

I think you might be correct about the Beyer-Garret's, but I beleive the largest were used in South Africa and in size, wieght and power they could give a Big Boy a run for its money. Any idea's of where to find out who had the largest Beyer-Garret ?

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Posted by vsmith on Friday, September 10, 2004 5:10 PM
I'm resurrecting this topic cause of a recent development...

Previously thought lost forever information has come to my attention and I have been able to reconstruct a schematic drawing of the legendary "Big Joe"

Yes! it turns out the Big Joe was a 4-12-12-4 + 4-12-12-4 Garret arraingment. This is based on sketches I recently uncovered in an old tattered book of Russian railroads that recently came to light at a train auction I attended earlier this summer. I only got a short look at the book and immediatly knew what it was. I was very excited at my find when the book was taken away from me by an ugly character who said in an eastern accent, "You no look at book, bad for you!" I was rather miffed but when it came up to auction I lost out to a grissled old man and his surly partner who I have met earlier who outbid everyone in the room! The box and book were then immediatly whisked away in a convoy of black SUV's....[;)]

Well I got a good enough look at those scetches that I have now managed a reasonable reconstruction..I will try to post an image of it here if I can.

Its a beauty! .[8D][;)]

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Posted by dharmon on Friday, September 10, 2004 5:24 PM
The cigarette smoking man strikes again................didn't want yo to see photos of it pulling long trains of white boxcars carrying alien experiments. [alien]
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Posted by twhite on Saturday, September 11, 2004 12:35 AM
I built a model of the 4-12-12-4+4-12-12-4 several years ago, after my then girlfriend Tatiana Nosejobovra smuggled the plans to me from Siberia, along with an autographed copy of a piano concerto by the distinguished Soviet composer Dimitri Shovelcoalevitch. I was very surprised to find that the original plans for the locomotive included the first ever quadruple-hinging ever assigned to a prototype, an idea that I understand they stole from Rivarossi. The locomoitve ran quite well at first, powered by six Canon motors and eight reduction gear units from NWSL. However, I also found out that unless one played a recording of the finale of the 1812 Overture constantly (the version with the live cannon), the locomotive would only run in reverse. It wasn't much of a puller--two ore cars and a bobber caboose--so I only used it on locals. Unfortunately, the locomotive developed a huge dependency on vodka, and one time when I accidentally put on a recording of Tchiakovsky's "Marche Slave," it committed suicide by running itself off of my North Yuba Viaduct. Pity, it was kind of a charming little (?) thing.
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Posted by twhite on Saturday, September 11, 2004 12:37 AM
By the way, according to Baldwin, their Missabe Yellowstone had more TE than Big Boy, but since the two locos were built for entirely different service, it seems kind of a moot point, doesn't it?
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Posted by nfmisso on Sunday, September 12, 2004 8:10 PM
So, how many of you read Ed King's article: "Big Boy or Big Mistake?
Did Super Power Steam make it easy for diesels to sweep the field? Which railroads got it right; which got it wrong?"
in the Sept issue of Trains ?
Nigel N&W in HO scale, 1950 - 1955 (..and some a bit newer too) Now in San Jose, California
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 12, 2004 9:03 PM
Bigger means more tonnage=less fuel costs.
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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, September 12, 2004 9:33 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by nfmisso

So, how many of you read Ed King's article: "Big Boy or Big Mistake?
Did Super Power Steam make it easy for diesels to sweep the field? Which railroads got it right; which got it wrong?"
in the Sept issue of Trains ?


Probably not too many. I think King's right. Furthermore, the biggest screwup in that regard was C&O which used the perfect engine for hauling high value merchandise to haul coal.

And judging from from the reply that immediately followed your post, there are those who still suffer from the delusion that bigger is necessarily better.

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by twhite on Sunday, September 12, 2004 10:49 PM
I agree. Read the article in TRAINS and wondered after, whether or not US railroads took a snow job by the manufacturers on certain locos. There are BIG locos that did well for what they were designed (SP Cab-forwards, DM&IR Yellowstones, for example) but other big locos that either were mis-used or just not applicable to what the particular railroad REALLY needed at the time. For instance, the WP 2-8-8-2's that were assigned to the 1% in the Feather River canyon. They were the prototype for the Missabe Yellowstones, could garner up almost 148,000 TE when needed, yet they pulled reefer trains up a 1% curving grade at a max of 25mph, when they were probably better suited to heavy traffic on heavy grades. After WP began dieselizing in the '40's, they were at least assigned to the 2.2% of the HIgh Line, but the tight radii wore them out. I think again, it was an example of too much for too little. Of the western railroads, I think only GN, SP and Rio Grande actually ordered and utilized big steam that was appropriate. They put the weight on the drivers, where it was needed for their particular profiles (and in case anyone brings up the SP Daylight 4-8-4's, remember that the Coast Line was SP's passenger speedway, and only the brief 2.2% grade out of San Luis Obispo required helpers, otherwise it was pretty even going between SF and LA).
Of course, for we modelers, we can use our Big Boys, Challengers and Alleghenys as we see fit-- God knows MY Allegheny is pulling trains it never pulled in actual service-- which makes this hobby so much fun.

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