MisterBeasley wrote: If your ceiling lights are controlled from a wall switch, and you put outlets in on a different circuit (a good idea, if possible) then you should not run both circuits through the same box for your on-off switches. As they say, it's not just a good idea, in most places, it's the law, or at least part of the electrical code.
If your ceiling lights are controlled from a wall switch, and you put outlets in on a different circuit (a good idea, if possible) then you should not run both circuits through the same box for your on-off switches. As they say, it's not just a good idea, in most places, it's the law, or at least part of the electrical code.
MrB:
I won't speak for every city, and I don't often do it, but there's nothing in the NEC that generally forbids two circuits in one box. Tie all bare grounds together if doing that. Of course,
if you run two circuits into one box you end up with a lot of cables, so watch the box fill.
Separating lights and receptacles is a nice idea, but combining both on two circuits is also a good idea - perhaps put half the ceiling lights and two walls on one, the rest on the other. This way, if you have to turn off one to work on it,you still have light.
My train layout room is 14'X29'. I have my 18 halogen recessed lights with 75W dayglo halogen bulbs on three different 20 amp circuits with dimmers. I then have a 20amp receptacle every eight feet. These receptacles are on three different 20amp circuits. The room is also wired for cable, satellite, and 5.1 surround sound. A wood laminate floor, nice smooth drywalled walls, six panle oak doors, and a beautiful closet with laminated shelving with and outlet and a light on a dimmer curcuit. The ceiling is a 2X2 tiled ceiling. Sometimes I thin instead of a layout I should make it a home theater room. Point to made here, I wanted to make sure I had enought power. I used 20amps everywhere and kept all lights off the receptacle circuits. Just make sure if you do a around the wall that your switches are not at the level you layout will be at, thats the problem I'm going to have in a spot. I don't want to move the switches and dimmers and at the time my layout was planned to be lower. I since have wanted my layout around 46-48" min. Just down skimp on power and outlets. If you have water nearby or water problem use a GFI.
Ed,
A thought for you and others who read this thread ---
In the various woodworking shops I've had over the years, I've had only one outlet wired directly to the building breaker panel and switched with a normal lite switch. Plugged into that outlet a 24 vac transformer (such as a heater/air conditioner thermostat transformer).
The 24 volt side connected to a 3 pole motor contactor relay with 20 - 30 amp contacts. To the contacts, I connect 230 V from the breaker panel on the input side and the output is connected to the various lighting / wall recepticles keeping the load reasonably balanced. With such an arangement, I can run my saws at 230 and everything else at 115.
When I walk out of the shop and cut the lights off, it kills everything.
Like the fellow says ---- for what it's worth John T.
If you can, I would suggest you do the following...
Hope this helps.
Thank you all for your advise. I have did the wireing in the rest of the house so I am fimular with the codes in this area. I just wanted to know if you put certain things( grouped togeather)on one end or in the middle of the layout.I understand it depends on the layout ,its size, shape, and runing area in the room, and other factors.As for along the walls I did put the recepticals (in the rest of the house) within 8' of each other.The wife wanted them every 4' and now (in some rooms) I think she was right.
Again thank you all. Was more than I thought I'd get and it did help me to figure out what i will do to put the recepticals in the basement back room.Also switching them is something I didn't thing of.If any more advice comes up please say something. I am never to old to learn.
slow train Ed
cacole wrote:Whatever you do must comply with the National Electrical Code and local fire code. If you do something wrong which results in a fire, and the cause is determined to be your fault, it could prove to be very costly. I would seek the advice of a professional electrician or your local building inspector instead of trusting the advice of users on this forum who don't live where you do and don't know the condition of your current electrical wiring. Telling the fire marshal that "A peson on the Internet said I could do it this way" isn't going to be very believable.
Couldn't agree more. Note that I said I had checked with my LOCAL electrical inspector. He gave me some very helpful advice about how to assemble the "super extension cord" I use (a major ingredient of which is the cut-up remains of a high-capacity 150 foot outdoor extension cord, once used with an electric chain saw I no longer own.)
Whatever I do that might involve building, electrical or plumbing modifications is flown past the local codes inspectors BEFORE any materials are purchased or work is done. Fifteen minutes of conversation up front can save hours (and $$$) of hassle later.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
No such thing as too many outlets.
Gary
In areas that will be under the table, I would put them low. It will be easier to get at once everything is built
I put one on my facia board and use it a lot. If I were to do it again. I would put a second one at the other end of the layout. Crawling under the table to plug something in is a hassle. Having the outlet right there in the facia is very nice.
I use an outlet strip to actually plug all layout power into. That way, I've only got the one toggle on the outlet strip to flip to power everything up and down. It also keeps my outlets powered up for running tools and the ever-so-useful vacuum cleaner, without powering up the layout at the same time.
I have a small control panel with individual toggles for the various "lighting busses" on the layout. Mostly, I leave the incandescent lights off, but I'll run them at night or when I'm showing off the layout to friends.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
As was stated, check your local electrical codes. These can vary from town to town, although they are generally pretty consistent. As mentioned, there is usually a maximum spacing requirement, and I'd agree with the idea of making the spacing a bit closer than you have to. There may also be a "height above floor" requirement, so be aware of that, too.
National Electric code requires outlets to be placed so there is no more than 6' along any wall that can not be reached. This would amount to 12' between outlets. Far to much distance in my opinion. My living room has outlets every 4' and my train room is about every 5'. Heigth is not regulated in most cases and is left to the desires of the owner. Basements in most cases can be treated as ordinary living spaces and be wired as such. The only requirement that I am aware of is that there be 1 GFCI recepticle available. This is usually placed near the panel box if it is in the basement or in the utility area. The idea about wiring the layout separate with a plug is a good one. Be sure to follow good wiring practice though as this is still a potentialy dangerous circuit. I did not do this on mine as I did not want any high voltage lines running anywhere near my low voltage stuff. Mr Murphy plays a big role in my life and I don't need to give him any additional help.
Dan
First, I strongly agree with the suggestion to have all outlets under the layout controlled by a wall switch. The best place to put this switch is right beside the trainroom light switch. On the way out for the evening, just throw both switches off and the room is dead, electrically speaking. Then if you forgot to unplug something (like a soldering iron or heat gun) it won't have a live outlet and be turned off.
As far as spacing, I'd suggest about every 6 to 8 feet. Consider the length of your power tool's cords and plan to NOT use extension cords on a regular basis. There may be places you'll need a dual outlet (2-duplex outlets=4 places to plug things in) like where your power packs will be located (a mistake I made and had to go back to correct). As far as total number of outlets, conside how many things you'll have running at one time and how much power they draw.
For utility outlets (power tools and soldering gun for railway construction, work lights for use under benchwork, power for train control and accessories...) you might consider installing the boxes on your benchwork and wiring them to a plug, which will then go into a regular wall socket (in my case, a ceiling socket intended for a garage door opener.) If the wall socket circuit isn't protected by a GFI (ground fault interruptor) you can install one as the first socket in from the wall plug. Technically, what you have created is a multi-outlet extension cord, thus no need for an electrical permit to install and use it - verified with my local building inspectors before I did it myself.
Done this way, the outlets are right at the layout edge (in or just below the fascia) - no access problems and no question about where they are when you need to use one.
First check your local building code and make sure you're in compliance with that. I believe the requirements in most places is a receptacle every 6', and there should be one on any wall or wall segment that is separated by a doorway. (No extension cords running across a doorway, in other words...)
One suggestion I read too late was to wire your outlets so at least one of the two plugs can be controlled by a light switch. That will save a lot of running around the room turning things off when it's time to shut down for the night.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
I haven't seen or veiwed any forms that have stated how far the recepticals(plug ins)would be the ideal hight and distance along a wall in a room for my trains. Could someone give me an idea? I am going to use the back part of our basement.It is about 14'x22' space.I have already put a false cealing in with 4 tube fercent lights. But now I need to determan how many and where to put the recepticals on the three walls? The trains will be run on double shelves, spaced about 16" apart. I haven't determaned where I am going to put the helex. Also in the middle of the open side ( the 22' length)is the furance.I hope I have discribed the room so you can understand what I have.
going to try to give my photobucket image.[img]http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z80/slowtrained[img]
any help can't hurt my fellings .thank you in advance