LHS (Local Hobby Store) Trends over the last few years

[fmilhaupt]

Over the last ten years in my town, we've gained one train-focused shop a ways out of town, gained a national chain, and one of the formerly local shops began franchising, drastically reduced what they carry, and closed one of their two retail outlets in town.

The train-focused shop outside of town has been improving its inventory and has been consistently worth the 30 minute drive to get there.

The national chain shop has never really had a very good selection of trains for anyone beyond the beginner stage. For me, it's useful mostly to pick up the odd pack of rail joiners on a Sunday afternoon.

After it began to franchise its name, the local shop remodeled its original location of 50 years, drastically cut down the depth and breadth of its train inventory, then a year later moved out to consolidate operations at its more suburban location. That wasn't too bad until late last year, when they moved the train section to the other side of the store and shrunk it further. You can no longer count on them to get new releases in, unless you special-order them in advance- there doesn't seem to be any interest in ordering much for stock. As a result, I find myself making the 30-minute drive out to the other guy for most of my stuff, or driving the 45 minutes the other way to a larger shop in a big city suburb.

I'm very disappointed with the local shop, as I'd bought from them regularly for nearly 20 years and know a couple of the guys on the staff very well. Unfortunately, the steps they've taken recently have driven away most of my business-- their turning themselves into a special-order outlet has pretty much eliminated any advantage they had, at least for my purposes.

[-Fritz Milhaupt

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RMax1

Discount Model Trains last time I went there was the worst I have ever seen it. They have an area that is a gondola with engines and it was less than half full. The gondola is big probably over 20 ft long. Racks and Racks of Athearn RTR and very little kits. The Proto 2000 loco selection was GP20's and SD7's with a couple odd ball PA's and others. I left with out buying anything and I normally do not do that. It is a hassle for me to get to the place so usually I am in the big time buying mood. Prices were not as good as they once were either.

RMax

I have shopped with DMT for a few years now. I have never had a bad experience there. RTR is the wave of the here and now, for better or worse. I, myself, often go there without making a purchase but enjoy being able to see products first hand rather than just a photo or description on a website.

Prices everywhere are going up, not just at hobby shops. I still find that their prices are competitive with internet dealers on most products, especially when shipping charges are considered.

Manufacturers are the ones who have gone the RTR route, not DMT or any other LHS. This is based on many factors, cost, profit margin, and the demand for RTR. RTR does provide the impetus for many who do not have the time to build a lot of kits to enter the hobby in a short period of time and get trains running. This is what will keep the model railroading hobby vibrant. It also allows more time for such things as trackwork and scenery.

As Billy Joel sang in "Keepin' the Faith", "The good ole days weren't all that good, tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems."

RMax, please do not feel flamed by this, as this is not a personal attack on you in any way, just my opinion of how the hobby is changing.

SRVfan

[railman]

we've actually lost a couple hobby shops around my area. And to comment on personality issues, one shop has always been great, the other okay. Although I've overheard some experts going on and on, but I've managed to avoid the fray. Just go in, look for what small supply of Milwaukee Road stuff they have, and make my purchases.

[Anonymous]

Actually, it's not the LHS's that are changing, they are just responding to consumer demand. You don't expect LHS's to carry products that don't sell very well,... do you? If kits were good sellers, then dealers would be selling kits like hotcakes.

When a large percentage of consumers demand RTR's and ignore "blue boxes", then LHS's will respond accordingly.

Further more, if consumers buy most, or all, of their high-end products over the Internet, then these products will slowly begin to disappear from the LHS's shelves.

When Model Railroading enthusiasts take great pride in putting down LHS's and brag about the great products and prices they receive over the Internet and that they would never buy from an LHS, they are sending a message to folks that might be interested in opening a new hobby shop. Why in the world would anyone try to sell something that can be purchased easier and cheaper over the Internet? IMHO model railroaders will get what they want, although they might not want what they get.

[RMax1]

Discount Model Trains last time I went there was the worst I have ever seen it. They have an area that is a gondola with engines and it was less than half full. The gondola is big probably over 20 ft long. Racks and Racks of Athearn RTR and very little kits. The Proto 2000 loco selection was GP20's and SD7's with a couple odd ball PA's and others. I left with out buying anything and I normally do not do that. It is a hassle for me to get to the place so usually I am in the big time buying mood. Prices were not as good as they once were either.

RMax

[n2mopac]

My observation of the numerous hobby shops I shop at from time to time is this. Generally hobby shops are diversifying. This is logical from a business standpoint. Why focus on a small marked, 1 hobby, when you can carry supplies for many hobbies. The result, however, is that they tend to carry only the most popular items. That means HO scale and Lionel and only the most demanded items and the cheapest items. Even in many of the stricltly model railroad stores if you want something even the least bit different you have to order it. I know there are exceptions, but these seem to be the general rules. I would prefer to see what I am buying before I buy it, but I am resign to the fact that unless I am buying code 80 flextrack (I'm in N scale) or a very common loco or rollingstock or a DPM structure kit, I will have to order it. Thank goodness for the internet!!!
Ron

[rogerhensley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brothaslide

Personally, I'm noticing less kits and more RTR with much higher prices.

Briefly, we've lost two hobby shops in the area in the past year. R-T-R is replacing kits a an inflated price and scratchbuilding supplies are getting much harder to come by. I tried to find some doors, windows, wall vents and roof vents (HO) for a project I'm working on with little success. I did come up with some doors that I could use and managed to make the rest out of things in my scrap box and household hardware.

When I operated a train shop in the 1980s, I stocked a large supply of pieces and parts and basic materials as well as paints. 'Tain't so today. If you want everything already built for you and are willing to pay through the nose for it., you can find it. The hobby has changed and I'm not sure that it is for the better. Fortunately, I'm old and it won't matter to me much longer...

[Anonymous]

Support your LHS.. and save $$$ too!

Years back there was a lot of discussion about support your local hobby store as opposed to buying through the big mail order houses - generally a "lower price" vs. "support them so they're there when you need 'em" argument.

I kept this in mind when I started building a fairly large (12' x 20') layout. Designed with Atlas Right Track freeware, I had a parts list of all track componets needed. I compiled the list, specifying the desired or acceptable brands and called local hobby shops asking if they were interested in submitting a bid. Several responded. The winning bid was about 20% lower than I would have paid by cherry-picking the best advertised prices from the various mail / internet order houses.

It was also a win for the LDS - while their percent profit margin was certainly more modest than usual, I'm sure it was a tidy sum considering 1) the amount of purchase, 2) that they didn't have to carry any special inventory and 3) their effort was minimal.

Lesson learned - if your order is sufficentially large - the LHS can be the best deal anywhere!

[on30francisco]

There used to be around five hobby shops in this area. Three have closed several years ago. One of the shops mostly caters to Lionel and brass. The other has a separate train department with a lot of HO and some supplies for other scales. While the service is good, the shop is sort of cliquish, and they charge Walthers' prices. Since I'm in a minority scale and gauge, I usually order a lot online.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

I dont know if this has happened to others out there but as a teen it was very discouraging and it took me until my late 20's to get rekindled in the hobby, but even then I was and still am a "Lone Wolf" modeler, I dont talk about things at some hobby shops as not to risk kicking the dragon. I have found a couple of shops that I am comfortable asking questions but I still have stepped on a few tails simply by asking the wrong questions, like "I'm looking for Product 'X' " at a store that doesnt carry Product X, doesnt like Product X and thinks anyone who doesn't use Product Y (usaully twice as expensive) is stupid, and then being treated like I've said a personal insult by the shop owner. I find its best to hold my questions until i feel the place out, then risk asking.

Too many personality issues out there, not as much help being offered.

[|(] It's sad when you can't walk through the doors of any LHS and not only investigate the selections offered but ask questions of the staff, too--and receive enthusiastic answers in turn. I agree with you about being a 'lone wolf' modeler; I thought I was the only one that felt that way. I like my LHS and generally they are pleasant to deal with, yet the owner could care less what you buy so long as you do. It's all about the dollar to him. I rather dislike the staffers who take modeling much too seriously ("You ain't got a real model railroad unless you have this...or that....") and avoid them like the plague. Should there ever come a time when visiting the hobby shop proves more of a chore than a fun experience, I'll stop going, opting instead to order via the Internet.[V]

[vsmith]

LHS has either remained the same, IOW no major trend changes or expansion beyond what is new everywhere else. ( I guess theres no risk if theres no expansion.)

-or-

LHS gone belly up and floated down river to a sad and lonely grave.

I am still amazed that I live in an area as large as Southern Califorina and I can still count off the hobby shops for trains without having to take of my shoes.

This area can be devistatingly hard on a new hobby shop. Kids dont care for trains or even R/C that much anymore. They just want to play " Doom Simpson's Head Splattering Death Soldiers" on there Sony Playstations or sit in front of the Idiot box watching "gangsta-rap" on MTV while sucking down Supersized fatburgers and "turbochug" sized cola's.

Its been my experience that at age 40, I'm almost considered a newbie kid in this hobby. When I was younger I wasnt taken seriously at all by the LHS I frequented then, since folded, and I still feel that is a continuing problem at many LHS's that when kids come in to buy that $15 Life Like bottom dweller engine that the store employee will "dismiss" this kid as "unworthy" of further interest, hence they will not offer advice to him that might help him to grow in the hobby. I have experienced this first hand when I was younger. If your not doing a room-sized finescale prototype pike like they are then your not "worthy" of our expertice and your not encouraged to ask advice or your simply ignored.

I dont know if this has happened to others out there but as a teen it was very discouraging and it took me until my late 20's to get rekindled in the hobby, but even then I was and still am a "Lone Wolf" modeler, I dont talk about things at some hobby shops as not to risk kicking the dragon. I have found a couple of shops that I am comfortable asking questions but I still have stepped on a few tails simply by asking the wrong questions, like "I'm looking for Product 'X' " at a store that doesnt carry Product X, doesnt like Product X and thinks anyone who doesn't use Product Y (usaully twice as expensive) is stupid, and then being treated like I've said a personal insult by the shop owner. I find its best to hold my questions until i feel the place out, then risk asking.

Too many personality issues out there, not as much help being offered.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by EL PARRo

Mine has gotten better. In fact, two or three years ago they moved to a new locaction (actually, they only moved to the other end the same same building) that is about twice as big as their old location, and their selection has improved greatly since then.

[#ditto] The one variation is that I've noticed the prices are higher since my LHS moved to bigger quarters. Guess the owner has to absorb the cost of the move and higher lease payments. The selection has grown in respect to locomotives, but structures have taken a hit--he just doesn't seem to have as many as he did previously.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emory

I live in the DFW metroplex and have shopped many different hobby shops over the years. Most have closed--Bobbye Hall's and Phil's to name just two. However, the best of all just seems to get better, Discount Model Trains in Addison. They have great service and selection, the best prices, and will go out of their way to try to get a product for you.

Bobbye Hall's is a great loss. I liked the place so much, I actually went into the neighborhood where the store was, and that's saying a lot if you know what it was like around there!

And the one in Addison was solid, too, so it's good to see the place getting better.

I also noted the fact that 4 places in Tucson have closed since I lived there. (Help me out: Is the place from California that advertises in MR called "Arizona Trains" the same one that used to be in Tucson?) That's really unfortunate.

The two Denver area stores I most visit are doing fine, and a new Hobbytown USA has opened with an owner who has enough space (and awareness) to offer a fairly wide vareity of train stuff, including tools I can actually use.

Still, it's true that too many stores are closing. I guess that's what happens when we strating using the internet because of the discounts. It's like the small shops that close when Wal-Mart comes into the area: we go to the Wal-Mart because it's cheaper but feel bad for the smalls hop anyway.

[Anonymous]

I live in the DFW metroplex and have shopped many different hobby shops over the years. Most have closed--Bobbye Hall's and Phil's to name just two. However, the best of all just seems to get better, Discount Model Trains in Addison. They have great service and selection, the best prices, and will go out of their way to try to get a product for you. And below MSRP!!

I feel like "Norm" from "Cheers" when I walk in!!!

Truly a 4 star establishment!!!

[ClinchValleySD40]

One big one missing - Going Out of Business Sale.

[sparkingbolt]

Mine is catering to a rather small town, but it does a better job in train stuff than you'd expect, considdering that there is more money in RC cars. What it doesn't have, it'll get as soon as it can. I can say I'm happy with it. Sometimes though I like to head into the big city 120 miles away to a shop that has lots more.

I think that the fact that selection is declining reflects to some degree what's available to the shops, like this whole move towards RTR. Dan

[Anonymous]

Though the selection is the same the quality is improving on some product lines. It's the price which is disconcerting. Realizing the economics of supply and demand and the market will bear what the consumer is willing to spend. prices are becoming prohibitive. At the rate the prices are climbing, the industry won't be able to sustain it's self and will eventually crash because no one will be able to buy anything. It will be like going back to the early years where people made their own rolling stock and accessories.

Did I hear some smiles crack in the far off distance?

[Anonymous]

I'm not voting because I don't have one LHS, I have two.

[IRONROOSTER]

I think my LHS is getting out of S scale not that he ever had much. I do most of my buying at the Great Scale Model Train Show in Timonium MD and mail order. Next show this coming weekend (24/25Jan).
Enjoy
Paul

[Jetrock]

Product selection and price have both gone up, so far as I have seen--but product selection has gone WAY up, and prices only in proportion to inflation, so overall I'd say things are getting better.

[cacole]

There's only one shop out of five left in Tucson, Arizona, and their stock has dropped significantly in the HO area. They seem to prefer Lionel. I attended a train swap meet in Tucson this past Saturday, and the vast majority of items there was also Lionel O Scale. I don't know if this is unique to Tucson, but Lionel seems to be gaining in popularity.

[Anonymous]

Mine is getting better

[Anonymous]

I'm not in a position to vote. I've noticed that some hobby shops cater to the R/C crowd, others to the model railroad groups. Either way, it seems that there are too few hobby shops in my local area. The closest one to me mainly deals in N-scale, although he does have some HO and some O scale. The next closest one seems to have a large selection of HO but little in the way of O or N.

Nonetheless, I still prefer the closer hobby shop. The owner doesn't make you feel like an idiot when you ask a question. It's run by one person, he does all the sales, the ordering, and the repairs and installations. In between times, he sometimes gets to run his trains on the layout in the basement of his shop (it's also the home of our club).

I think that the people who run hobby shops for the love of the hobby and the wi***o extend that hobby to other people are much happier than the ones who are in it for the money. Happier, but not necessarily richer in finances.

[shawn-118]

The LHS in my area has gone from hobby store to craft store, with very little in the line of any hobby items, but a large slection of scrapebooking. Leaving me to look online and buying from larger stories when on holidays.

[CP5415]

My local hobby shop has stayed the same. There's always something he has that I want. UGH!!!
I can't fault him on the selection he has. He has two shelves dedicated to Athearn Blue boxes measuring 6'X4'. He also keeps a decent selection of Athearn, Accurail, Roundhouse & Walthers RTR.
He has a good selection of Athearn, Atlas, Proto & Kato locomotives in stock, usually in the Canadian roads.
If there is something I want, he gets it for me.

Gordon

[AggroJones]

A few years ago, my LHS expanded to include the building next door. It is much larger, but the selection of products I would buy is very slim and what is there is at MSRP. Very discouraging to buy from them.

[EL PARRo]

Mine has gotten better. In fact, two or three years ago they moved to a new locaction (actually, they only moved to the other end the same same building) that is about twice as big as their old location, and their selection has improved greatly since then.

[Anonymous]

My LHS seems to be on the leading edge of local retailing in the hobby. Its entirely devoted to model railroading, in several gauges with 3 different scale layouts to both test and display merchandise. Also they advertise on TV in preference to local print media.

Their selection of kit rollingstock is very limited, none at all outside of HO. Mainly 'blue box' type kits which aren't kits at all. They carry a wider selection of structure kits, virtually all HO, and scratchbuilding supplies.

Their pricing is right out of the Walthers catalog. Not competitive at all for tools or painting supplies. Big ticket items are much cheaper on the net even considering shipping.

In sum, I'd say they are typical of trends in LHS', the large internet names are taking their high ticket sales and the larger manufacturers are selling direct to the enduser leaving the LHS as a dying breed.

Randy

[Anonymous]

Fortunately, my LHS has improved their selection of about everything, but mostly scenic materials and basic tools/necessities. Of course, that is good because that's about all I use it for, as everything else I need is rare and needs to be mail ordered. So I have not paid much attention to the RTR stuff, though there does seem to be more. Prices on everything seem to be about the same, increased a little for inflation, of course.