Bad news from Athearn

[Anonymous]

I thought this was bad news a couple days ago, but upon further reflection, there may be a silver lining in this cloud.
If it is true that Horizon only sells to honest-to-goodness, retail-storefront hobby shops, then the guys working out of their garage or basement with a lap top and a phone line will not be getting Athearn products anymore. The people who have been buying deeply-discounted Athearn from the garage types, or at the swap meets, will have to start getting their Athearn products from a real hobby shop.
Of course, the hobby stores have to charge more than the web dealers and mail-order places charge, since running a legitimate retail hobby shop costs way more than setting up a clandestine wholesale buying club for your buddies in your basement. Some people will whine about that, but they will have to grow up.
Bottom line: if you want a hobby shop to be there for you when you need them, and to bring new blood into the hobby, then you should be willing to pay a retail price that allows your hobby shop to stay in business. Buying an expensive loco from an online discounter, and then going to the hobby shop for the couplers, is trying to have your cake and eat it, too. Keeping Athearn products in bona fide retail hobby stores may help the hobby stores survive, which is in every railroad modeler's best interests, whether he has the foresight to see that or not.

[Anonymous]

Crewdog,

I appreciate your post about legitimate prices. The man in the basement buying for buddies is no different than say a model railroad club seeking parts or locos etc or a customer looking thru ebay and calling hobbyshops for the item. The internet is a tool of communications and as such, we communicate faster.

Couplers, tools, paints and small items costing a couple dollars add up over the course of the year. I see my budget in the hobby a full 1/3 of it goes for these items. The rest in trains, structures, and scenery. And some of it for books magazines etc.

Frankly I believe a "Good" store will be glad to sell couplers to you. Heck I buy a 20 pack of Kaydee ($19- us) several times a year for my fleet. IF I did not need to buy couplers then that money would be spent on cars, paint etc. The point is, any business is good for the LHS.

As a customer, I have seen cases where I hear and see 'Grumbling" because I bought a 1.50 part for a badly needed engine that has been rotting on the bench for 2 years for want of that part. I pay for the part and say "Thank you!" and not come back becasue of poor treatment.

Good Stores will treat each and every customer as "Somebody" to be welcomed and helped where ever possible by answering questions or digging thru for that one detail part for an hour. Those are the ones that will survive.

I remember having 5 to 8 hobby shops back home in the Mid Atlantic area and several trips a month we would hit em all. Model Railroader back then was the major source of new products information. And Trainshows such as Greenburg's was a "Forum" for makers of trains to announce and show off the new products. Things moved slower then.

Today you can search the world in a hour or less for specifically the part you want. "Scary"

It has been my experience that hobby shops will discount some items such as engines and pricey cars by a small percentage to give a customer more incentive to buy. If it results in profit for the owner of the store.. that depends on what price the distributor sold it at. And in turn the distributor must pay a price from the factory for em.

For Example, The 4-8-2 HO Scale Mountain from Spectrum. Bachmann wants a retail (Suggested) price of about $200.00 I bought one last year at the LHS for approx 150.00. I dont have any idea if there was a profit to the store or to the distributor. I think that kind of info is kept quiet. But I do know that Bachmann did not get 200.00 for that unit.

Code 83 Flextrack is about $2.80- a section. I remember Brass being deeply discounted when everyone bought Nickel Silver. Now everyone wants code 83 on down. You cannot really find brass track anymore. (And I dont want brass)

I hope this helps.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme

RELAX!!!!!!!!![:D]
From another forum group I subscribe to, a level headed hobbyshop owner relayed the following info: He has spent a great deal of time talking to Horizon and has found that Horizon is NOT going to be running Athearn, only distributing. Athearn will still have a free hand to build what they want to build, and to develop new products. (I doubt they will be dropping SD40-2's, especially after upgrading the drives.) Looking at past Horizon purchases (RC models) prices for items produced have stayed the same, and in some cases decreased after Horizon took over.
Things might be a little bumpy at 1st, but a year from now, I doubt any of this will matter.

I hope you are right. [|)]

[Anonymous]

You may be on to something. I recently tried to purchase some Athearn kits from a hobby shop that in the past always had plenty of Athearn in stock. They were unable to fill my order. I couldn't get any of the kits I wanted, but it seems that they had plenty of
R-T-R available. Could be just a coincidence. Only time will tell.

Jim

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: Looks like Trainworld is getting out of Athearn too. .....

A friend of mine tells me this is because Athearn has been more careful about how many units it produces so that there are fewer gluts to benefit the deep discounters.

[CBQ_Guy]

Well if it does turn out to be true, it will be interesting to see how Terry Thompson will spin it because he publicly stated he thought the buyout was good for the hobby! (And gee, I don't have a clue why!)

[Anonymous]

I come from New Zealand
In 1997-98 I bought it GP60 Athearn about nzd 70 was cheap but there no some part of detail thing e.g slowplow etc it is hard to get from USA to New Zealand
From now price went go up so expenise !!!!!!!! cost around NZD 100-200 !!
sound like rip off price

[CP5415]

I was at my LHS this week. He had about 50 Athearn units in stock including about 10 SD40-2's.

Most are priced around $70 Canadian which is I think about $50 US.

Gordon

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus



WHY DOES FLEX-TRAK COST $4.85 at the LHS? And don't tell me it's the LHS's making money hand over fist.[:(!]

I would have to say that it IS your LHS. Both of my LHS sell code 83 flex for $3.00 EA.
It sounds like they are marking it up ABOVE even the Walthers list price. Walthers
list it for $3.75. Sounds like a case of highway robbery. Dave

PS I assume you are refering to Atlas Flex??.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus



WHY DOES FLEX-TRAK COST $4.85 at the LHS? And don't tell me it's the LHS's making money hand over fist.[:(!]

I would have to say that it IS your LHS. Both of my LHS sell code 83 flex for $3.00 EA.
It sounds like they are marking it up ABOVE even the Walthers list price. Walthers
list it for $3.75. Sounds like a case of highway robbery. Dave

PS I assume you are refering to Atlas Flex??.

Heres the Canadian Issue:

If the Canadian dollar is valued at $.76 US the $3.00 US translates into $3.95 Canadian. Add shipping and handling and duties it adds up, real quick. If one buys direct from Walthers then we are looking at $4.93 Canadian again before shipping and handling and then the $5.00 customs charge. Then we're still talking an additional 15% GST (sales tax). I just feel the price for something as simple as flex track is too much. Especially as I see it advertized in bulk for $1.19 US, which translates into $1.57 Cdn. And yes I realize economics of being able to sell cheaper in bulk but I still feel somewhere in the food chain someone is taking more than there fair share and are not willing to cut the smaller LHS's better deals. If I'm wrong then break the costs down. And far as the LHS's I deal with in my area. They treat me very well ! And cut me deals when they can.

[cacole]

I attended a large swap meet in Tucson, Arizona on Saturday, January 17th, and there were more Athearn blue-box kits for sale that any one person could possibly ever assemble -- every dealer had hundreds available, and there was no panic buying by anyone in attendance that I could see. I think the dealers might have anticipated a run on them, but probably wound up taking them back to their stores afterward. All of the rumors about Athearn doing away with kits seem to be started by hobby shop owners trying to panic people into buying.

[trainfan1221]

I guess its a matter of time before we see what really is going to happen. I certainly am not going to hold my breath waiting for any more n scale stuff from them.

[JEIERMANN]

Some of the spelling is terrible in these posts . C'mon dougal, you can do better than that I'm sure. If not, quit worrying about Athearn and worry about your future, because if your school is passing you along with those spelling skills then the rest of your education is in trouble also.

[Anonymous]

I attended two model railroad shows approx a month ago-one in the Atlanta area and the other was a GATS show in Knoxville on the same weekend. I could have bought Athearn blue box kits at heavily discounted prices and there was plenty to go around - in fact I saw one particular 'dealer' take home a van full of unsold 'blue boxes' including freight, passenger and a bunch of diesels, after the Knoxville show, and he was selling at approx 40% off MSRP.

A LHS explained to me that the whole Horizon deal is still somewhat vague (to him-he wasn't the owner, but is a seasoned veteren in the hobby). This may be old news to most of you, but he said that Walthers will not be stocking, and therefore not distributing Athearn anymore. Since most LHSs are set up with Walthers, and if they are primarily a train store only, they probably are not set up w/ Horizon-at least not yet. They won't have a source for future Athearn inventory, unless and until they sign on w/ Horizon.

Horizon has an opportunity to do this right if they are fair to the stocking LHS, continue to offer kit versions of the 'blue boxes', and don't step on the prices like another distributor has. I know that 'other' distributor is part of the food chain, stocks a lot of stuff the LHS can't, blah, blah, blah. . .I just wonder how many would -be model railroaders gasp at the retail prices in that very thick catalog (that also has a lofty price tag on it, too), and say never mind, that looks like a rich person's hobby?)

Could it be that the 'other' distributor may be telling the LHS the tale about the impending death of the 'blue boxes' so that the LHS stocks up for the last time from that 'other' distributor, enabling that distributor to clear their shelves before they may unable to, due to their loss of the Athearn line? I saw this happen time and time again during my career in semiconductor sales and marketing, "and parts is parts"

I would hope that the 'blue box' kits remain the staple of the product line for they have always been a great value until recently. I know that many of them are compromised versions of prototypes, but they have worked for many of us for a long time. Lately they have faced considerable competition from other manufacturers who are offering viable and more accurate kits for similar pricing, esp. when compared to Athearn's ridiculous RTR prices in that 'other' distributor's catalog. Anyone who needs to buy a RTR 'blue box' item either doesn't have the time or basic skills for this hobby, and Horizon should consider dropping both the RTR versions and their prices on their kits. An exception would be to offer their train sets only as RTR. I also don't think they should loosely use the "Genesis" name on anything other than their top of the line offerings.

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JEIERMANN

Some of the spelling is terrible in these posts . C'mon dougal, you can do better than that I'm sure. If not, quit worrying about Athearn and worry about your future, because if your school is passing you along with those spelling skills then the rest of your education is in trouble also.

JEIERMANN,

How would you like it if you were called you out like that? Be wise and be careful what you post. You can always e-mail someone off line. I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and my spelling is awful - I use spell check for everything - even these posts.

Sean

[AlcoRS11Nut]

If this is true, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

[METRO]

If you check the Walthers website you'll see a lot of the Blue Box kits are marked "Discontinued When Sold Out" and that's if you're lucky enough to find what you want in stock! There is a huge run on Blue Box right now, and I am truly skeptical that Horizon will even bring all of the old Blues out in RTR. I would bet that the truly annoying "limited run" craze will eventually take over even Athearn. I say annoying because the most desired products seem to be sold-out in pre-orders weeks or months before they hit the shelves. I would hate it if I couldn't go and browse the shelves at hobby stores and not see a full floor-to-celing shelf full of blue boxed kits.

[Anonymous]

hey JEIERMANN --

Brothaslide made an excellent point 2 posts back. Who cares how a fellow modeler 'spells'? It's more important what he or she has to share, or express, or inquire about. . . I believe that you owe 'dougal' an apology, as well as any of the rest of us that sit w/ a dictionary in our lap when on the Forum, or yell out -"hey wife, how do you spell.........?"

Next thing you'll be telling me that I use 'run on sentences' or too many 'commas''. Or, perhaps you'll acuse someone of obviously drawing trackplans in class rather than listening to the tight-***, hair-in-a-bun, Engli***eacher (that dressed like a man on weekends) explain how to not end sentences in a prepositional phrase, such as this.. This Forum is about having fun, examinining the state of the hobby industry, providing assistance, or seeking guidance from fellow model railroaders, or anything else that seems appropriate at the time-not attacking individuals, but only challenging opinions on contoversial topics.

First we had to deal with the 'rivet counting police' Now its the 'spelling bee bureau of investigation'. What's next -- 'the grammar goons', or the 'sarcasism s.s.'?

[Anonymous]

That Stinks

DOGGY

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot. Did you ever think that I can spell great and its the keyboard thats messing up? I'll bet you never had any articles published (I have). The worst part is I want to write for a railroad magizine.[:(]

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JEIERMANN

Some of the spelling is terrible in these posts . C'mon dougal, you can do better than that I'm sure. If not, quit worrying about Athearn and worry about your future, because if your school is passing you along with those spelling skills then the rest of your education is in trouble also.

Pardon me but did you know einstien couldn't do simple math?give the kid a break.[;)]
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

And by the way Athearn prices have gone up $10 on $100 engines.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't make sence to me why athearn (herizon) is making rtr so expensive. they are already built so it seams they are aimed at children, but they are rediculasly expensive. they are around $95 american which is around $150 can. i find blue box is a little expensive but with the quality it is well worth it. Kato is too expensive, and spectrum makes no canadian trains. so i buy p1k (p2k is a little out of my price range) and athearn bb.

maybe well should just not buy any of the ahtearn rtr, i know i wont, too expensive and they only have one item that appeals to me: the cp rail AC4400, but i can get a bb kit of it for half the price, and i already have one.

[cacole]

I have only purchased one Athearn R-T-R item, their flat car with a Coca Cola trailer, and will not bother to ever buy more because it turned out to be a waste of money. Made in China, naturally, and the wheelsets on it are the crappiest of anything I have ever ran across. The only hope of ever being able to pull this flat car is to change the entire truck, if that can be done, because the wheelsets can't be replaced. The manufacturer used a blunt pointed axle that has so much friction that the car drags as bad as an unpowered locomotive.

I attended two train shows in Tucson in January and February, and there was no shortage of Athearn blue box kits, or panic buying. The various dealers had literally thousands of them available, and no one was buying them, either. If your local hobby shop is claiming that Athearn is no longer going to produce kits, they are lying in an attempt to unload the blue box kits they have on hand, and don't know or want to know how to acquire more through Horizon Hobby.

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Amigos!

[1] Please, let's not start "FLAMING" each other again like back in January! You all give some great input and we don't need to be dragged down to the bottom of a dumpster. JEIERMANN did write a rather "low, and degrading" statement, but the best response to something like this is to either "comeback" with a little wit, or IGNORE it! BTW: Good response Bill Mattheson!

Dougal, you've contributed greatly to this forums. Keep posting!

[2] Originally I had intended to ignore Athearn rumors, but now I do find myself wondering.
I only wi***o purchase 3 more Athearn locomotives. Two SCL U33Bs, and one Santa Fe Warbonnet FP45. Future locomotives will be from the FOUR TOPS", (Proto,Atlas, Kato, Stewart)

My big "krunker" with Athearn has been parts. I e-mailed Athearn and the response was that I can order parts directly from them. It annoys me to pay the $5.00 shipping charge, but the body and frame parts themselves are cheap so I'm just going to "bite it" and order a batch of boxcar and reefer underframes as well as some locomotive parts.

BTW: On another thread, one of you stated that for just a dollar or two more, there is a company that makes better detailed freight cars. Can't be Atlas as their cars go for $30+. Anyone know which company it is?

Thanks again Amigos,

Happy Easter!

[Anonymous]

Be careful with the parts department because there is no way to know when a part is in stock. This week I called them abouta 57' reefer underframe to find they are out of them. So it's a hit or miss thing to get parts.

Along the line of this topic horizion has said a 1000 dollar a month quota for ordering. IF you live in a small town with multiple shops ,like I do, it puts a strain on the lhs because they can't sell that many athearn products a month. Be wary because this dollar figure was from the owner of the LHS and it might be a fabrication of truths to push products
Andy

[AntonioFP45]

[1]

George745,

Thanks for the heads up. [;)] The 57ft. reefer underframe is one of the items I need! [sigh]

I've been a longtime (25 year), loyal Athearn customer and I can understand a company's direction being partially dictated by market trends, but this is getting a little idiotic! [V] I did see some info written about the $1,000 minimum LHS order from Horizon which, IF TRUE, borders on "arrogance". Doesn't Horizon realize that with all of the new competition facing Athearn that many Hobby Shops are not going to "jump and order"? I know mine won't! Maybe a decade ago, but not today. Hopefully this is just rumor.[8)]

Other than the locomotives that I mentioned on my previous reply, I'm greatly curtailing my purchases of new Athearn freight cars, sorry to say. A big chunk of my freight car fleet needs parts that my LHS can't seem to get. Why compound the problem? I recently went to H&R trains, a LARGE model railroad store in Pinellas Park, Florida. Plenty of Blue Boxes but the parts rack: What a joke! I do hope I can still get the parts that I'm about to order directly from Athearn.

I'll continue to buy used, junk Athearn cars at train shows that I can strip for parts.

[2] Mondotrains,

Are you a New Haven fan? Branford Hobbies in Connecticut will be producing a plastic NH "McGinnis" EP5 that fits on an Athearn PA chassis in October.

[cwclark]

You can get a credit card and order them from the internet at a reasonable price...I don't like hobby shops..I purchase only glue and brass rod from them.....The guy behind the counter will tell you anything to get a sale and you can't always believe everything you hear..(or see or read as that goes)...The only problem I have with Athearn Locomotives..(I love them and have a fleet of them) is the new plastic handrails...If the Athearn guy is reading this..GO BACK TO USING METAL HANDRAILS!

[Anonymous]

Remember this post is my opinion and my or may not contain facts. So read with caution.

A little more along the $1000 minimum order thing. This is of course speculation but this whole posts has been justs that. Horizion before the Athearn deal, dealt mainly with Rc Cars, right? Well what they may be doing is trying to get LHS to buy RC cars with the model railroad orders to fill the $1000 min. This way the own two markets in the LHS.

[Anonymous]

hey cwclark -

If you only purchase brass rod and glue from your LHS, no wonder thr proprietor is trying to sell you something else. That's his job whether he is the owner or an employee. If his advice is suspect or products not to your liking, locate another hobby shop.

The LHS has been the backbone of this hobby (and most hobbies) forever.God forbid if we get to the point of having to buy everything on eBay in the future. Look at what Home Depot has done to the traditional hardware store business or Walmart to the individual ' Mom& Pop' local businesses.

Yes, I buy on the internet for certain stuff, as well as spend a ton of $$ at Home Depot & Loews (only because real hardware stores are an endangered species these days- and that's my point). I have a hard time even entering Walmart, although my wife has gotten used to it (probably for similar reasons as I have for shopping at the orange or blue/white box stores). Before I resort to buying train stuff on the internet, I'll approach my LHS to see if he'll 'strike a deal w/ me', especially if I'm ordering a bunch of stuff at the same time.